Multiple drive-shaft transmission

[fitterski]

I'm planing a redo of my snow-blower (see also under hydraulics) and ONE possible Tx resolution would be to place the engine-and-transmission behind the 4x4 vehicle and find a way to pass a single driveshaft right through whatever is in the way between it and the snow-blower in the front. The snow-blower yoke height would depend on the impeller diameter and would likely be between 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 feet. The multiple driveshaft solution I'm addressing here would instead use a 1st driveshaft to get down under the frame and axles, a 2nd to get to the front of the vehicle, and a third to rise back up to the impeller yoke.

The 1st shaft going forward and down from the ackbassword engine/tranny would probably get below the frame at a point forward of the rear axle, the rpm would be in the lower range like 0-1100, torque shoulbe be below 2000 ft-lbs. I have very basic or rather only rudimentary driveline theory in my head, such as the ends of u-joints on both ends of one shaft should be parallel... and that's as far as I get

Any hints welcome

 

[bigdeano]

Sounds like a good plan to handle a lot of HP. Any U joint running at much of an angle should be a constant velocity joint unless there's another joint running at the opposite angle to cancel out the rotary vibrations. I'm sure you can find loads of info with a google search.

 

[fitterski]

Sounds like a good plan to handle a lot of HP. Any U joint running at much of an angle should be a constant velocity joint unless there's another joint running at the opposite angle to cancel out the rotary vibrations. I'm sure you can find loads of info with a google search.

I know very little about cv joints except that they cost a lot! Double Cardans it seems are just as good and cheaper, I do have another learning-curve to deal with. The best option would still be to punch right through just missing the truck/tractor engine on the unoccupied side. I can design the impeller on the right side of the blower so even with a 48" job 28" above ground and a mere 25" inboard would be an acceptable drive-shaft path.

Even with a single drive-shaft two good joints would be needed; anybody know the street prices, say for 2000 ft-lbs @ 3000 rpm?

 

[bigdeano]

Here's some info. https://www.weasler.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/NA-Universal-Joints.pdf

Looks like the 55 series would handle it, but you should compare to what's on the Allison. The yokes are about $100 each it looks like.

 

[fitterski]

Thanks, I saved that for ref. Here's one that saw daylight before c-joints I think, can't tell if that's a D6 but I did hear that the fan (on the roof) was for cooling a V-belt gang

 

[bcp]

Sounds like you are re-inventing this.



Patent drawings:
Patent US292536 - Snow removing apparatus - Google Patents

Bruce

 

[fitterski]

Sounds like you are re-inventing this.

View attachment 495377

Don't think I'd want to invent that one, but I have invented better:

Deutz powered JD Snow Blower from Hell 29 - YouTube

About drive-shafts, neighbor just advised me that the place to look is around a tractor/combine yard seeing that they always have all sorts on hand both new and used and 'completely of another class'.

 

[franklin2]

I'm planing a redo of my snow-blower (see also under hydraulics) and ONE possible Tx resolution would be to place the engine-and-transmission behind the 4x4 vehicle and find a way to pass a single driveshaft right through whatever is in the way between it and the snow-blower in the front. The snow-blower yoke height would depend on the impeller diameter and would likely be between 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 feet. The multiple driveshaft solution I'm addressing here would instead use a 1st driveshaft to get down under the frame and axles, a 2nd to get to the front of the vehicle, and a third to rise back up to the impeller yoke.

The 1st shaft going forward and down from the ackbassword engine/tranny would probably get below the frame at a point forward of the rear axle, the rpm would be in the lower range like 0-1100, torque shoulbe be below 2000 ft-lbs. I have very basic or rather only rudimentary driveline theory in my head, such as the ends of u-joints on both ends of one shaft should be parallel... and that's as far as I get

Any hints welcome

Do you have a picture of what you have now? What are you using to move the blower around with? A standard 4x4 pickup truck? A tractor? Something homemade?

 

[fitterski]

Do you have a picture of what you have now? What are you using to move the blower around with? A standard 4x4 pickup truck? A tractor? Something homemade?

there's a u-tube video link above, I'm not sure how uploads are accounted here and wouldn't wanna run out of space but here's two small ones

I may continue using this same platform and/or move everything to a new one; 1-2 years..

 

[franklin2]

So you are thinking the new version is going to be too heavy to keep everything together on the blower like you have it now? What if you had large crazy wheels on the blower to help carry the load? They would have to be adjustable for height.

 

[aczlan]

there's a u-tube video link above, I'm not sure how uploads are accounted here and wouldn't wanna run out of space but here's two small ones

No limits on how many pictures you can upload here, so no worries on that.

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

I will have to look again what Loftness put on our 7' front mount snowblower. It uses 1.5" round stock to drive the snowblower on the front off of the rear PTO. It has a long shaft that comes off of the pair of gearboxes, then another shaft that has a carrier bearing at each end, then a short shaft going to the blower itself.
In your case, if this will be a single purpose truck, why not take out the passenger seat and run a driveshaft to the front where the passenger seat would go (inside a tunnel to keep in contained if something goes wrong)? Then on the front, move it over with your existing belt and (if needed) to a new smaller pulley on the driven side and then out to the blower with a PTO shaft?

Aaron Z

 

[fitterski]

I will have to look again what Loftness put on our 7' front mount snowblower. It uses 1.5" round stock to drive the snowblower on the front off of the rear PTO. It has a long shaft that comes off of the pair of gearboxes, then another shaft that has a carrier bearing at each end, then a short shaft going to the blower itself.
In your case, if this will be a single purpose truck, why not take out the passenger seat and run a driveshaft to the front where the passenger seat would go (inside a tunnel to keep in contained if something goes wrong)? Then on the front, move it over with your existing belt and (if needed) to a new smaller pulley on the driven side and then out to the blower with a PTO shaft?

Aaron Z

That drive-shaft for a passenger is one interesting possible approach I have on the table. At this point all I know is that the present setup is too much work to get everything going. It is at times underpowered to the point of being useless because wet snow sticks like peanut butter, but conversely when it's 20 below then all the electric relays die because frost forms between the contacts, etc.

I'm gonna have to move this topic somewhere else. I started in hydraulics for hydraulics issues, came here with drive-shaft issues, and if this keeps up I'll have fifty different threads going for the same project!

I like your sig. When I was young and the car broke down we would fix it right there, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, or a friend would tow us home. I remember changing a set of bottom end bearings on my '53 ford in a ditch without so much as jacks over two days. Now we're not even allowed to tow ourselves on our same public roads, and most young folk know only how to call a tow-truck, forget everything after "we fix..."

 

[aczlan]

On the wet snow part I might suggest lining the inside of the drum and the blades on the fan with HDPE. I used 3/16 thick HDPE on my snowblower and it works really well so far (but we haven't really had enough snow to test it out properly). It makes it so the snow can just slide right off and go out rather than having to fight with it even with the wet sticky stuff.

Aaron Z

 

[davedj1]

Why not power it with the truck engine? And use this: The VEMCO V-Drive System Or an airport snowblower?
If the snowblower you posted a picture of earlier is to be used you could always put a set of dolly wheels and have an electric winch raise and lower them?
One similar to this one was sold cheap at an auction this fall, seems simple enough to drive it from the rear. You may need to make or have someone make a box with gears or chain to drop it down under the truck.

Actually if I was going to use a rear engine to power something up front I would look into hydraulics, a pump and a motor, easy to run hoses.

 

[franklin2]

They are pretty loose in this forum and far as categorizing questions. Usually a successful build of something requires the electric, hydraulics and the mechanical all to work together in harmony, hard to separate them out sometimes on a project.

I am sorry if you have covered this before somewhere else, but I am trying to get a handle on what you want to do. Are you going to try and use a pickup truck? Or keep using your back-hoe? Or use some other tractor? A large tractor would be ideal, though expensive if you don't already have it. It would have plenty of gearing to get the ground speed correct, and the rear pto for your driveshaft. Or it would have enough oomph to carry/steer around a front mounted blower with a engine.

 

[fitterski]

On the wet snow part I might suggest lining the inside of the drum and the blades on the fan with HDPE...

Mine rolls it all into a ball on the auger and it don't get INTO the fan, and then putting polyeth on the auger would be a tough job but I will have to improvise somehow. With global warming we'll be getting more and more of these mild spells when snow sticks like visiting family.

 

[fitterski]

Why not power it with the truck engine?.... I would look into hydraulics, a pump and a motor, easy to run hoses.

That's what I initiated on the Hydraulics forum, I will soon be uploading my own hydraulics simulator/calculator and will post a link there. You will also see a link in that forum on my thread about a guy doing a Tracker/snow-blower, it's pretty wild. I wanna keep the driving and the blowing separate, been spoiled that way, I drive at any speed I want and blow at another, win-win.

 

[fitterski]

They are pretty loose in this forum... I am trying to get a handle on what you want to do. Are you going to try and use a pickup truck? Or keep using your back-hoe? Or use some other tractor? A large tractor would be ideal, though expensive if you don't already have it. It would have plenty of gearing to get the ground speed correct, and the rear pto for your drive-shaft. Or it would have enough oomph to carry/steer around a front mounted blower with a engine.

It begins with "I have to make changes". So I will assemble all the options, study them to death and price them. Then I will decide on the course of action. You can see more on the hydraulics forum 'Convert/Redo hydraulic snow pump'. The hydraulic option is simple but has its own constraints only one of which is co$t. The next platform may be a 1500/2500 class 4x4 truck, with a straight 6 there might just be enough room to pass a drive-shaft through on the right side. I might also just upgrade the present rig and move to a truck the year after. My old Jimmy or a Jeep are too small, the gross vehicle weight leaves no room for another 2500 lbs, my Tundra has a v8, poor as a candidate and also in service for at least another 5 years.

As far as electrics, see more in the u-tube video, my advice is don't touch it with a ten foot pole, not for a snow-blower! I've had more problems with that and will n e v e r a g a i n. This is one of the reasons I might even scrub the Duramax idea, I cannot have a rig depending of a cheap card made in china for $1. The diesel has to be all mechanical controls, no shutoff solenoid, only the other "start it and then try to stop it" variety

 

[muddstopper]

To get a shaft from your tranny, why dont you mount a sprocket on the front of the transfer case, along with your front drive shaft, and mount another sprocket up higher so you could use a long jackshaft to run to the shaft on the blower. Of course it would only turn the blower when the truck wheels are turning, but just throwing out ideals. Depending on the transmission, it might also have a plate for mounting a pto.