Hydraulic top link failure

[comancheflight]

I have an agristore hydraulic top link along with their top link hose kit. I was working on a job tonight and started to use the box blade. When I tried to extend the top link it started shooting fluid. I went to the rear to look and one of the hoses was loose on the link body. It was dark so I decided to take it home since I have to go back tomorrow anyway. When i got home I tightened the bolt up, fired it up and it squirter all over the place so I took it off and looking at the other hose i noticed it has a copper washer. It was completely gone on the leaking one any why is was so loose. This happen often?
Is this something I need to stock copper washers?
Where can I get these washers?

 

[disney]

Where can I get these washers?View attachment 488243

I know little about copper crush rings in conventional hydraulic systems, but harbor freight has an 80pc set for under 5$ #67526

 

[LD1]

ITs too bad they used those fittings/hoses on their cylinders. Thats only about the most uncommon hydraulic fitting. Wonder why they couldnt just use any of the much more common NPT, JIC, ORB, ORFS? Maybe its possible to convert to something a little more conventional??? Only time I have dealt with banjo stuff is fuel and some coolant setups. But never hydraulics so I dont know.

 

[k0ua]

You could make one pretty quick if you can TIG weld. I have made them before out of copper wire formed over and appropriate mandrel like a piece of pipe or the original fitting. Once the ends meet you can TIG weld the ends together using smaller copper wire as filler rod and then file the ring smooth.

 

[downsizingnow48]

The banjo fitting is probably BSP British Straight Pipe. I have run into those once or twice. Sometimes it uses a copper sealing washer. Other times it uses a seal that looks like a copper washer except it has a thin rubber ring on the inside. Using the wrong one can make it leak. Don't ask me how I figured that out.

Discounthydraulichose.com has the copper sealing washers in BSP and metric sizes.
Surpluscenter.com has the composite copper-rubber seals in inch sizes.

An option to consider, as already mentioned, would be to get adapter fittings that take you from BSP to JIC and then not deal with the banjo fitting.

 

[countrybumpkin]

You may check with napa, they should have a assortment , those are used on hydraulic brake lines, or other places that handle brake parts for larger trucks.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I have an agristore hydraulic top link along with their top link hose kit. I was working on a job tonight and started to use the box blade. When I tried to extend the top link it started shooting fluid. I went to the rear to look and one of the hoses was loose on the link body. It was dark so I decided to take it home since I have to go back tomorrow anyway. When i got home I tightened the bolt up, fired it up and it squirter all over the place so I took it off and looking at the other hose i noticed it has a copper washer. It was completely gone on the leaking one any why is was so loose. This happen often?
Is this something I need to stock copper washers?
Where can I get these washers?View attachment 488243

If you contact Agristore, I bet that they will send you replacements at no cost to you.

 

[oosik]

Huh - learn something new every day. Never heard of a sealing system using copper crush washers.

 

[comancheflight]

NAPA, other auto stores, Ace Hardware...nobody has anything this size. Called Agristore they said they have never had a failure like this that they know of. They said they would give me one but I live 2 hours away. Just so haplens my wife is in Indy on business so I had her stop by. The price is only about .15 so even though they said they would give me one I told her to get half dozen for insurance.

 

[comancheflight]

Who hoo...the wife got home with my new washers. They gave all 6 to her...saved 90 cents....but still nice of them.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Who hoo...the wife got home with my new washers. They gave all 6 to her...saved 90 cents....but still nice of them.

My experience with copper washers is one of 2 things, they fail in short order or last forever. Just seems like that is how it is, for me anyway. :confused3:

 

[DaveK OR]

Copper crush-washers need to be dead soft when you torque the nut/plug down. That's why they say you shouldn't reuse them, as they work-harden when they're crushed.

On the other hand, you can fully anneal them with a torch (heat to red hot, let cool), cleanup any fire-scale or irregularities that would interfere with the seal, and reuse them just like new (though perhaps a little thinner). I did this with the oil-pan plug on my old Volvo, and the crush-washer lasted through about 6 years of regular oil changes, with never a leak.

 

[ovrszd]

ITs too bad they used those fittings/hoses on their cylinders. Thats only about the most uncommon hydraulic fitting. Wonder why they couldnt just use any of the much more common NPT, JIC, ORB, ORFS? Maybe its possible to convert to something a little more conventional??? Only time I have dealt with banjo stuff is fuel and some coolant setups. But never hydraulics so I dont know.

Also vehicle brake systems. The banjo fitting is always used at a disc brake caliper.

I'm with ya. Not sure why they did that. They will work if properly assembled. But there's so much room for error. Not sure how to check the threads used to know if they can be converted to more normal fittings.

 

[LD1]

Also vehicle brake systems. The banjo fitting is always used at a disc brake caliper.

I'm with ya. Not sure why they did that. They will work if properly assembled. But there's so much room for error. Not sure how to check the threads used to know if they can be converted to more normal fittings.

Yep forgot brakes. And just did 4 calipers thursday night too. 2 on the front of a 99 ranger, two on a 05 f150.

I still have never seen them in hydraulics though....other than brakes.

 

[/pine]

FWIW...There are several banjo fittings that employ copper crush washers on at least some B series K_ubota tractors...I recently replaced the main hydraulic line to the front of my tractor...It connects to the rear with a single banjo and has a second towards the front for an adapter port block...
BTW I had to replace the ($125) line because of the (double) flare fitting at the very end of the line...both banjo fittings were fine...

 

[ovrszd]

FWIW...There are several banjo fittings that employ copper crush washers on at least some B series K_ubota tractors...I recently replaced the main hydraulic line to the front of my tractor...It connects to the rear with a single banjo and has a second towards the front for an adapter port block...
BTW I had to replace the ($125) line because of the (double) flare fitting at the very end of the line...both banjo fittings were fine...

Jarred my memory. Yep, I've saw factory hydraulic banjo fittings on Kubotas as well.

 

[LD1]

Jarred my memory. Yep, I've saw factory hydraulic banjo fittings on Kubotas as well.

In the case of kubotas......wonder if it has something to do with space savings? A 90 degree fitting that adapts from the casting to a JIC for the hard tube to connect.....sticks up higher than a banjo fitting. The banjo maybe also less prone to getting broke off it kicked?

 

[ovrszd]

In the case of kubotas......wonder if it has something to do with space savings? A 90 degree fitting that adapts from the casting to a JIC for the hard tube to connect.....sticks up higher than a banjo fitting. The banjo maybe also less prone to getting broke off it kicked?

Yeah, I think that's generally correct. Even brake caliper lines are more compact and less likely to get snagged.

 

[LD1]

Yeah, I think that's generally correct. Even brake caliper lines are more compact and less likely to get snagged.

Wheels keep getting bigger, but so do the size of rotors and calipers. Many times, there isnt enough room to stick your fingers between the caliper and wheel.

 

[/pine]

On a side note...I bought the tractor (B1700D) about 7 years ago...it had under 500 hours, one previous owner...the only thing that I could find that had been repaired was the top of the rear banjo fitting on the aforementioned hydraulic line had been brazed...it never gave me any problems...but that is the second hard line I have had to replace because of double flare fittings...the other one was a steering line...was told vibration is the culprit on the flares failing...