Are Automakers This Stupid?

[HHR]

Just just read this article about how downsizing and turbocharging engines creates higher emissions. Sounds like this was "unforeseen" by the automakers and the only solution is to make larger displacement engines or install a particulate filter like a diesel.

Intensified Emissions Testing Reveals Shortcomings of Downsized Engines

 

[Industrial Toys]

Sounds kind of like Lawyers. The worse the problem, the more income derived from it. So, make the problem bigger.

The moto from my ,polluting generation, was that there was no replacement for displacement.

 

[Oldpath05]

Are Automakers This Stupid? <<<<<Only when it come's to airbags, oil filter location and when the timing belt breaks, it breaks the engine.......

"(According to a Reuters report, closer emissions testing scrutiny in the wake of the Volkswagen diesel emissions cheating scandal, reveals that downsized engines, both gas and diesel, are bigger polluters than previously thought.") <<<<<<<<Who would of thought, I guess sometimes, bigger is better....

 

[zzvyb6]

Fortunately, I was able to learn to read in the first grade. The article clearly states: "At higher load and throttle levels than standardized emissions lab testing". The Federal Emissions test is the only task that must be met. And fuel economy is NOT the goal. In fact, fuel is added downstream of the combustion chambers to heat the main and then the pup converters.

A turbo increases the effective compression ratio by jambing in more air than a natually aspirated engine. Same principle as a supercharger (mechanical turbo). It runs by extracting waste heat energy from the exhaust to pump the intake air. So, its an efficiency improver. Efficiency is not the goal, though, by Law. Reduced emissions is. The increased efficiency increases the peak combustion temperatures, which raises NOx levels which must be catalyzed in the converters using added downstream fuel injection. So, its a win loose consequence. Also, a small engine displacement means wider throttle opening, which also increases efficiency by reducing inlet restriction. Try jogging down your road as fast as you can while breathing only with a 1/2" pipe nipple in your mouth instead of a 2" pipe. Its called restrictor plate, same as what asthma sufferers feel.

GM's Displacement on Demand (DOD) also called "Active Fuel Management" works by canceling cylinder thermodynamic addition to the power demand. You can't just shut off cylinders, though, they would go cold and increase carbon monoxide output, so there is active cylinder rotation to keep all chambers warm enough not to misfire.

Remember, ONE misfire during the California/Federal Emissions test fails the vehicle. Real world fuel and power results are secondary to the requirements of the emissions test. Like it or not, makes sense or not, its what non-scientific reasoning has produced for tactics to fight smog pollution increases. I'm still bewildered that our beef and milk cows aren't fed sawdust and equipped with fart collection bags that could be used to power city busses in China.

 

[cqaigy2]

Not a mechanic, but it seems these smaller engines would use less gas and produce less pollution, until you get on it. Isn't that the similar to a larger displacement engine? Not only that, but you can market a larger hp engine that gets decent mileage, that is until you stomp the gas peddle, the you get less mileage, increased emissions and more horse power and a nice kick.

 

[om21braz]

My dad worked on autos for 50+ years and did some things that surprised even a few GM engineers. His motto was and still is to some extent "You can buy gas or you can buy parts - take your pick."

 

[Industrial Toys]

I remember in the 70s when my Dad was supplying GM. Mostly steel wire for steering wheels. He once told me, how elated the Engineers were when they saved a couple of ounces on a vent duct. Hardly makes sense to me now, considering the massive frames and heavy drive trains of the day. Remember, when you could lift your two ton family car by the bumper?

 

[3930dave]

I remember in the 70s when my Dad was supplying GM. Mostly steel wire for steering wheels. He once told me, how elated the Engineers were when they saved a couple of ounces on a vent duct. Hardly makes sense to me now, considering the massive frames and heavy drive trains of the day. Remember, when you could lift your two ton family car by the bumper?

They did other dumb things back then too () , like mandating shock mounted bumpers that could easily shake off a low-speed impact.

Today, because the OEMs get to save $20 in hardware, consumers get to pay $thousands for low speed impacts.

Rgds, D.

 

[WM75Guy]

I'm still bewildered that our beef and milk cows aren't fed sawdust and equipped with fart collection bags that could be used to power city busses in China.

Not so fast there. Governor Brown just signed the law that gives the California Air Resources Board the authority to regulate bovine emissions (cow farts). They are studying cow feed to see if they can reduce emissions. Guess a vegan diet isn't all its cracked up to be. :laughing:

Cow farts can now be regulated in California | Fox News

Argentina is studying collecting the methane.

These Backpacks For Cows Collect Their Fart Gas And Store It For Energy | Co.Exist | ideas + impact

 

[Industrial Toys]

Hey ! That shock absorbing bumper worked when my Mom hit the back wall of the garage driving our 72 Delta 88.

 

[3930dave]

Not so fast there. Governor Brown just signed the law that gives the California Air Resources Board the authority to regulate bovine emissions (cow farts). They are studying cow feed to see if they can reduce emissions. Guess a vegan diet isn't all its cracked up to be. :laughing:

Cow farts can now be regulated in California | Fox News

Argentina is studying collecting the methane.

These Backpacks For Cows Collect Their Fart Gas And Store It For Energy | Co.Exist | ideas + impact

I think I'd write the headline as "Politicians secure a new source of Hot Air" instead.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Hey ! That shock absorbing bumper worked when my Mom hit the back wall of the garage driving our 72 Delta 88.

Not that long ago, I saw an itemized comparison of testing a late 70's economy car (Ford Escort) with shock bumpers vs. a modern car (Sentra, Corolla perhaps) for low speed impact damage. Not that brands matter really, more that they were equivalent classes of cars.

The old Escort needed no repair, the modern one well over $1,000 but probably closer to $2k.

Rgds, D

 

[rmk700]

F1 racing has gone V6 up to V12's and are now currently down to V6 turbos.
Don't even need earplugs with the new V6. Miss the screaming sound of there V8's.

F1 V6 turbo vs V8 engine sound Mercedes New F1 sound - YouTube

 

[ultrarunner]

Well... the bumpers on my Model A Ford are made of spring steel and chrome plated to withstand a rigorous salt brine exposure test...

A lot of brilliant engineering from a time long ago... maybe why so many survived?

 

[Industrial Toys]

Like I said before. The world seemed only too happy to trade Quality for Fanciness.

 

[Renze]

F1 racing has gone V6 up to V12's and are now currently down to V6 turbos.
Don't even need earplugs with the new V6. Miss the screaming sound of there V8's.

F1 V6 turbo vs V8 engine sound Mercedes New F1 sound - YouTube

Only reason for that is because there is no fun watching the lethal BMW 1.5 liter turbo V6, or the superior Ferrari V12 win every race. By changeing the mandatory engine configuration every few years, they keep racing interesting because an untouchable racing engine can only be used for just a few seasons. And the 1.5 liter turbos of the 80s were prohibited because 1500hp in a 500kg racer was just deadly. Too dangerous.

 

[Snobdds]

Go look at the tail pipe of any direct injection turbo charged car/truck and it looks like a diesel of old tail pipe. In fact new diesels tail pipes are cleaner than those of direct injected gas vehicles.

In 10 years the emissions of diesels will be found on gas vehicles.

The emission's have now flipped to gas being the dirtier fuel on modern cars.

 

[dickfoster]

I think I'd write the headline as "Politicians secure a new source of Hot Air" instead.

Rgds, D.

Yeah I've always said they are the source of more hot air than anything else on earth. Gotta be a source of global warming right there. Shouldn't have some sort of cap n trade on politics?

 

[Copperhead]

Go look at the tail pipe of any direct injection turbo charged car/truck and it looks like a diesel of old tail pipe. In fact new diesels tail pipes are cleaner than those of direct injected gas vehicles.

In 10 years the emissions of diesels will be found on gas vehicles.

The emission's have now flipped to gas being the dirtier fuel on modern cars.

Well yeah! Of course new diesels have cleaner looking tailpipes. The DPF's filter every little particle out of the exhaust and then cook it off at 1500F. Put the same thing on any gasser and the result would be the same. Gas is not dirtier than diesel. Only the downstream emissions stuff on modern diesels make it seem cleaner.

 

[Snobdds]

I was speaking to the perception of gas being cleaner than diesel, when it's not, because of new technology. Then the solution requires more technology to fix the perceived problem.

And around and around we go.