All electric house and a generator

[Code54]

Maybe you should look at some way to circulate the heat from the wood stove to the areas of the house it doesn't reach now. I run the circulation fans in my HVAC to circulate the heat from the wood stove throughout the house. I did have to move the cold air return of one system but I've got the whole house heated mostly with wood heat now. A circ fan doesn't use much power.

That is a good idea, I maybe able to get a return over closer to the stove, I will look into that!

 

[Code54]

Does anyone have any idea what size wire I need to run from the generator to the transfer switch (say 22kw)? The reason I was wondering was we are working on placement and the place my wife really likes is a ways from the house, as in about 100' so there would be so wire costs to add in.
I also have my entire deck tore off my house right now and it would be really easy to run the line to where the transfer switch will be now before I start putting the deck on this weekend (don't mind buying the wire to get ahead)
THANKS

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

To address some of the points. We looked at solar a little bit but we are not exactly in a sunny area and have a TON of tree cover. It also seems we use a lot of electric so it may not be the best fit in our situation.

That doesn't matter to the solar zealots. You should still be using it.... because! :laughing:

Never even thought about Gov. surplus sets, good idea - I will also look at them!

If you do, wander on over to www.steelsoldiers.com and get educated. Lots of good folks who are fanatics about milsurp stuff, and can answer any question you have. There is an entire section dedicated to milsurp generators. All the TMs available for download, too.

Make sure you do NOT buy a 400 Hz unit. There are quite a few out there.

We have a wood burning stove in the living room which heats the house fairly well but the kids both have rooms downstairs and their tv room is down there and it does not get too warm with the wood burner. Thus the wanting to use the furnace.

Maybe you should look at some way to circulate the heat from the wood stove to the areas of the house it doesn't reach now. I run the circulation fans in my HVAC to circulate the heat from the wood stove throughout the house. I did have to move the cold air return of one system but I've got the whole house heated mostly with wood heat now. A circ fan doesn't use much power.

I'll tell you what HVAC experts told me for years. It won't work. You'll lose too much heat in the ductwork. You won't get proper circulation. It won't work.

Baloney.


I heat 100% with wood, and my house is weird. The stove is at one end, and we spend most of our time in the other end in the living room. The living room was always too cold, and to compensate, the other end was always too hot.

And for years I listened to the experts.

This will be my third winter of not listening to them. I got a furnace blower and some ductwork off Craigslist, stuck it in the attic, and now I am pulling hot air from the stove end and dumping it in the living room.

My wood use is down by one third, the living room is warmer than the family room where the stove is, and everything is more comfortable.

Experts, stick that in your pipe and smoke it! :laughing:


So, get that good heat from your stove into your duct system and let it spread comfort through the house. :drink:

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Does anyone have any idea what size wire I need to run from the generator to the transfer switch (say 22kw)? The reason I was wondering was we are working on placement and the place my wife really likes is a ways from the house, as in about 100' so there would be so wire costs to add in.
I also have my entire deck tore off my house right now and it would be really easy to run the line to where the transfer switch will be now before I start putting the deck on this weekend (don't mind buying the wire to get ahead)
THANKS

I guess my link to the extension cord ampacity table didn't make it. I thought I posted it, but can't find it in the thread.

UL General-Use Circuit Ampacity Reference Chart

 

[Code54]

Thanks Larry but I think I am a little confused. It looks like the table does not go up nearly high enough of the AMP rating. I am think 22000 KW an running 150' of wire, so maybe something closer to service line? Am I reading it wrong or just overdoing things?
THANKS

 

[LittleBill21]

1 conductors per phase utilizing a #1/0 Aluminum conductor will limit the voltage drop to 2.40% or less when supplying 92.0 amps for 150 feet on a 240 volt system.
For Engineering Information Only:
120.0 Amps Rated ampacity of selected conductor
0.21 Ohms Resistance (Ohms per 1000 feet)
0.044 Ohms Reactance (Ohms per 1000 feet)
7.199999999999999 volts maximum allowable voltage drop at 3%
5.746. Actual voltage drop loss at 2.40% for the circuit
0.9 Power Factor

1/ - Wire - The Home Depot

 

[BrandonR]

Thanks Larry but I think I am a little confused. It looks like the table does not go up nearly high enough of the AMP rating. I am think 22000 KW an running 150' of wire, so maybe something closer to service line? Am I reading it wrong or just overdoing things?
THANKS

22kw at 240v is roughly 100 amps. For 150 feet you derate by one awg size. You are looking at 1/0 aluminum or 1awg copper conductors.

Thanks Larry but I think I am a little confused. It looks like the table does not go up nearly high enough of the AMP rating. I am think 22000 KW an running 150' of wire, so maybe something closer to service line? Am I reading it wrong or just overdoing things?
THANKS

 

[Code54]

That helps a lot, THANKS GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Industrial Toys]

I too have an electrically heated house. Small as it may be, but with lots of out buildings.

Last weekend I wanted to excercise the genset. I pulled the water heater fuse after taking a shower, and checked the load with my energy monitor. 220 Watts with the fridge running and a few security panels and wall warts here and there. I put the water heater back on, plus the 5K hot tub heater and ran the genset for a few hours.

 

[Redneck in training]

There is one thing nobody mentioned. You can save on generator size by using soft start for large loads such as heat pump and your light will not blink when it starts. SS for about 5 kW motor costs around 300 USD. It will also protect your contactor and capacitor. I was changing failed contactor and capacitor for our geothermal heat pump about every 5 years. The contactor sparked when starting the compressor but after the soft start installed it doesn't spark. The contacts are like new after about two years after installation. You can also get a soft start that replaces the contactor.
Hyper Engineering | Home

 

[ultrarunner]

Thanks for the soft start tip...

I've been replacing a lot of relays lately... some stick closed and the pump runs until someone notices which isn't good...

Some of the really old stuff has mercury switches and after 30 to 40 years still perfect... the ones with contact points seem to last a few years and just about all new, same part number relays are now made in China...

 

[Garandman]

22kw at 240v is roughly 100 amps. For 150 feet you derate by one awg size. You are looking at 1/0 aluminum or 1awg copper conductors.

Ours is 70 feet and 14KW but they used 1/0 aluminum.

 

[robstaples]

NEC national electric code says feed wire should be 150 % of gen cap. Back to an early question about duct heaters , you put a generator powered relay in the control circuit so when the gen is on , it opens the circuit and the heater won't run. You can add monitor lights and bypass switch if you want. If someone has a current NEC, could you look up gen feed. I know I did it wrong and read NEC after installation .

 

[dickfoster]

That is a good idea, I maybe able to get a return over closer to the stove, I will look into that!

My wood stove is in the great room that has a lofted ceiling. One of the central units had it's cold air return located in the top of one wall so I just moved the cold air return of the other unit from a hallway to the opposite wall in the great room. Since heat rises, the heat from the stove rises to the cold air returns which pick it up then distribute it throughout the house via the ductwork. When heating with wood I only run the circulation fans, not the gas fired heaters. I also have two ceiling fans turning in opposite directions in the great room to keep that room from developing hot and cold spots. It's amazing how much heat that little wood stove puts out. If I didn't do something to circulate it, the heat from it would run us out of the great room altogether, then we'd freeze in other areas of the house. It's a bit of a chore keeping the wood stove fed but other than my labor the wood is free so it beats the high cost of LP. I can't imagine what electric heat would cost me in this state.

 

[Garandman]

Our little house was designed to be passive solar. It has a central atrium so the warm air can rise, then the displaced cold air runs down the back stairwell. The side rooms have through vents at each end as well. The chimney is to one side of the atrium and is internal.

We have the smallest Hearthstone soapstone stove and the rooms will all be within 3-4 degrees of each other. The coldest spot is the kitchen by the front door, as that's where the cold air enters from the stair case and front door.

Spoke to the architect that designed it, who explained the system. Really very clever. His answer was, "Well, people been designing houses this way for over 300 years...."

 

[TractorGuy]

This thread has sparked my interest in a Military surplus Gen set. It looks like they only go to 10KW in single phase units. All the 15KW and up only list 3 phase current.

My only experience with solar panels is of the small battery charger variety. I have 10w and a 30w Instapark panels. Both will put out 18v in the shade. They do not require direct sunlight to charge.

I would give anything to go solar but it just flat isn't cost effective yet. Some of the folks that got in on the subsidy systems made out okay but I missed that train.

 

[Egon]

House designs incorporating air flow and even water have been in use for thousands of years.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Thanks Larry but I think I am a little confused. It looks like the table does not go up nearly high enough of the AMP rating. I am think 22000 KW an running 150' of wire, so maybe something closer to service line? Am I reading it wrong or just overdoing things?
THANKS

You are thinking 22 kw, or 22,000 watts. That's about 90 amps. #2 copper would carry it with some line loss at maximum load. Take a look at an online voltage drop calculator like the one at Voltage Drop Calculator

2.06% voltage drop is not bad at all.

Realize that you will rarely be using the capacity of the system. Your typical load will be about 20 amps at 240v. Heat pumps have a high starting current, but then drop back to a pretty low level. My heat pump pulls a whopping 17 amps when it's running.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Our little house was designed to be passive solar. It has a central atrium so the warm air can rise, then the displaced cold air runs down the back stairwell. The side rooms have through vents at each end as well. The chimney is to one side of the atrium and is internal.

We have the smallest Hearthstone soapstone stove and the rooms will all be within 3-4 degrees of each other. The coldest spot is the kitchen by the front door, as that's where the cold air enters from the stair case and front door.

Spoke to the architect that designed it, who explained the system. Really very clever. His answer was, "Well, people been designing houses this way for over 300 years...."

All-electric homes are rarely designed to take advantage of environmental heat sources. My house has about 260 sf. of U.36 window on the south side of the house, with honeycomb blinds for night insulation. The sunlight shines on a well insulated brown tile and cement board floor that heats the house nicely all day long and a couple hours after sunset. A wood fireplace insert and a ceiling fan keeps the house comfortable in the evening. If the heat pump kicks on, the main return air duct is in the ceiling near the fireplace, so return air is pre-heated. We leave the heat pump set at 60 degrees, and the only time it runs is when we are gone overnight.

I had to do some serious energy upgrades to the house to get it into this shape. When I bought it, the windows were single glazed, the subfloor and attic were not insulated, the patio doors were single glazed sliders, etc. I added insulation everywhere, more south windows, swapped the sliders for triple glazed Pella French doors, and discovered the virtues of double cell honeycomb blinds that add about an R-7 to the window spaces. For what I spent on energy upgrades I could have bought a huge power plant, but the passive upgrades work 24/7 in both summer and winter. You can walk barefoot on the tile floors in the winter. Last night it was 42 degrees and we didn't need heat. My wife thought I was nuts to spend thousands of dollars on upgrades nobody would ever see, but now that she has lived in it she figures I was pretty smart. The comfort level of our home doesn't change when the power goes out, and a 6 kw propane generator provides far more power than we need. When I used a gasoline generator I didn't even bother to haul it out of the barn until the second day of an outage.

That's why I was encouraging the OP to consider moving away from all-electric. In a real extended outage, fuel storage can be a problem. Being able to shut down the generator except for a few hours a day can be a big plus. If you only run a genset 4 hours a day, you have 6x as much fuel on hand.

 

[4570Man]

There are lots of things to consider. Maintaining a Diesel engine, keeping fuel on property, weekly testing. Just what do you want to operate during outages, how involved do YOU want to be in managing power usage for either type of system. Where would you put a diesel generator, noise, weather. Even your physical ability to keep up maintenance in future. It's a big decision, and solar with batteries should be considered. This technology is changing fast right now too. Tesla wall power units and batteries are getting powerful, system management devices are hitting the market now too. It's complicated. The old days of just buy a generator are gone. If the OP is really set on a generator, I'd buy a PTO driven generator, the tractor is there and maintained and ready to go. HS

Weekly testing for a homeowner standby generator? My standby generator is natural gas powered and I never test it. My diesel tractors sit for months and always start. These things aren't running life support.