Just bought first tractor and got ripped off

[LD1]

The add said it was in good shape. Also I have texts of him saying that all the tractor needed was small cosmetic things and after I contacted him about the weld he pretty much said he knew about it but forget to tell me. I have all this in text messages.

Unless the Judge reads the text message:thumbdown:

This is all the info we have so far about the text. We have the OP's interpretation of "he pretty much forgot to tell me"

Maybe the text is worded as such that it proves he forgot.....maybe not. At this point we dont know.

Beyond that.....one would still need to prove that the damage was beyond cosmetic AND that the seller intentionally forgot. Again, this could have been repaired 10 years ago, and been fine every since except for a small drip.

If I had any old tractor that when parked in the garage, left a drop or two of oil.....I'd have no reservations about calling it in good shape and only needs cosmetic things. If I were to sell my 1960's backhoe, I could write a 10 page list of everywhere that drips oil and everywhere that has a bit of weld on it. If questioned.....I wouldnt lie about anything. It is what it is. Like I said....you have to PROVE that the seller had the intent to purposely deceive the buyer. Not impossible....but pretty tough to prove

 

[ruffdog]

Maybe buyers should start using disclaimers that are signed by the sellers stating any "known" problems.

 

[Ford850]

The repair looks like a good job, and if done years ago the seller could have forgotten about it. Especially if he didn't use the tractor much lately. It's possible that the crack was stressed and extended slightly while loading the tractor, and that's why it leaks at the very end of the original fix.

 

[roadhunter]

This is a situation I would tell myself to move on. Do the best you can to take care of the repair but dont' waste time and $ trying to get even. It sucks that some people are like this weather they intend to or not but life's too short to get caught up in this. Come to terms with it and move on instead of letting it eat you up on the inside thinking about it. At last that is what I'd tell myself to do.

Best of luck with the tractor.

 

[oldpilgrim]

Do you see a crack in the weld? ... I dont in the pics. The leak may be just from some porosity within an otherwise strong fix. If so, you may just have a leak to stop. Forget JB weld either way. Nothing will give you enough strength, but if its just a leak look for oil tolerant sealers for tight porosity. -- Then do a clean up and fix in place. Do not use Brake Kleen because it leaves a difficult to remove residue in the metal that will degrade the adhesive as the casting warms up in use. Acetone or alcohol followed by thorough drying with a hair dryer will be much better.

my suggestion, exactly.

 

[Threepoint]

Lots of thoughtful discussion in this thread, but I come back to my post #53. See the OP's posts #8 and #9 in that regard. Nothing at all wrong with a seller making a major repair like welding/brazing a crack in the transmission (or a bell housing, or even an engine block, etc.) and then advertising the equipment as in good condition, "as is, no warranty". Nor is he obligated, without more, to initiate a disclosure of the repair when the buyer doesn't bother to ask about repairs.

But that presumes the seller does not know at the time of sale that the transmission has recently started leaking oil at the weld site, giving reason to believe that the repair has partially failed. Here he admits in writing that he knew this for two months prior to the sale. And the fact that the repair site had been covered with gasket sealer and painted over raises the question of when that was done. As I say, if it appears to be recent, then the finder of fact could conclude by a preponderance of the evidence (i.e., that it is more likely than not) that he intentionally deceived as to a very material problem by remaining silent.

I'm just talking about principles of law here, based on the few facts we have. Only the OP knows all the details. But it sounds to me that he has a reasonable case for fraud, if he has the enthusiasm to pursue it. Small claims court in Virginia has a judgment limit of $5K, and he can only sue for money damages (or the recovery of personal property, which is not applicable here). So he could not have the sale set aside (rescission) in small claims court. But he might be successful in recovering enough money to repair the problem. Importantly, the small claims court judge has broad discretion to consider and admit evidence that would not necessarily be admissible in a regular trial in the circuit court. The rules of procedure are also much more relaxed. I'm not encouraging the OP to go this route, but he should not be discouraged from considering it. Here is a link to a primer published by the VA courts.
http://www.courts.state.va.us/resources/small_claims_court_procedures.pdf

 

[Garandman]

I signed a bill of sale and it stated AS IS and No Warranty. So I don't know if that would help.

"As is" and "As represented" are two different things.

 

[Midniteoyl]

more of our conversation

I hate to say it, but none of that is an admission of quilt. He even claims that 'something' in the case was repaired before he bought it, that it did drip 'a little', but that he never looked underneath and never saw, or knew about, the weld... All of this would indicate that he did not, in fact, know about the leaking weld repair.

Sorry.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Oh.. and if you do decide to do more, you might wanna take those pic of the conversation down.. In fact, I would take them down regardless less they come back to bite you.

Regardless of whether people here think, or dont think, you got ripped off, nothing in those messages shows any proof that he 1)knew about the problem, much less the repair, and 2) he had any intent in defrauding you.

In fact, he mentions that you are the one who noticed and asked about the leak, and he told you what his mechanic told him. After the sale, he worked with you to find answers and maybe even a little compensation for your troubles.

I think that in this case, you bought something without really knowing what to look for, but were not deceived intentionally in any way that you could take to court, much less win.

 

[Threepoint]

Before you took them down, I read the text messages, but wasn't able to open the facebook messenger conversations. It sucks, but based on what I could see up to that point, have to agree with Midniteoyl . :sorry:

 

[Poorboy04]

Yea I'm just going to move on. I have let this consume my life enough. I'm going to get the tractor re-welded and hope for the best.

 

[LD1]

I'm going to get the tractor re-welded and hope for the best.

Not necessarily the best plan of action IMO. First and foremost is to asses the situation. And right now you dont know if the leak is coming from a crack (that would indeed need rewelded to do it right), or simply a pin hole or gas hole in the weld, that some simple epoxy or a pipe plug would fix just as well, but 10x's cheaper and easier

 

[PILOON]

On more than one occasion I have suggested that a potential buyer hire a local mechanic, preferably one that knows the brand, to bring along when making this kind of purchase.
At most I should cost about 1.5-2 hrs of normal wages, a very small investment that can save tons of future dollars.

I used to do such inspections for folks buying small aircraft (I'm an A&P and pilot).
I practiced what I preached when I purchased a tracked dozer and it saved me $1400. on a $4000 dozer!

 

[sixdogs]

Even if you paid with a bank check you can still stop payment on it for fraud. I had to do it once and all worked out OK. Short of that, buy used arts, fix it and it's not that bad of a loss. At least you know what not to do next time.

 

[MossRoad]

Yea I'm just going to move on. I have let this consume my life enough. I'm going to get the tractor re-welded and hope for the best.

Perhaps you should take it to a tractor mechanic/dealer for an estimate of how bad the leak really is, what it'll take to repair it, etc...?

In the end, it might not be too bad.

Good luck and let us know how it goes. :thumbsup:

 

[prichard]

I'm sorry about your misfortune.

This is why I bought new. I knew I was not qualified to assess a used tractor in that price range. Around here $8k is a very used tractor. I put the 8k down on new and did the 0% on the other 8k.

 

[MossRoad]

Thinking back on it, the New Holland TC21D (the OPs is a TC24D) was on my short list of tractors back in 2001. If the OPs TC24D is in otherwise good shape, its probably worth a repair and move along with life.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Yea I'm just going to move on. I have let this consume my life enough. I'm going to get the tractor re-welded and hope for the best.

,,,...Again:

Do you see a crack in the weld? ... I dont in the pics. The leak may be just from some porosity within an otherwise strong fix. If so, you may just have a leak to stop. Forget JB weld either way. Nothing will give you enough strength, but if its just a leak look for oil tolerant sealers for tight porosity. -- Then do a clean up and fix in place. Do not use Brake Kleen because it leaves a difficult to remove residue in the metal that will degrade the adhesive as the casting warms up in use. Acetone or alcohol followed by thorough drying with a hair dryer will be much better.

 

[moriboy]

If it were me, I'd just have it fixed by a good welder and use for a while. Going back to the seller would be the last thing on my mind. I've purchased a few things in my life that seemed fine, only to have issues down the road that I didn't discover at the time of purchase. That's just how it goes sometimes.

I had a scare last year...

I was looking for a nice dozer for my ranch. Looked at nearly a dozen before I found "the one". Checked it out as best I could, test drove for 15 minutes, and wrote the man a check. I got it home, started to push some dirt and noticed it had almost no oil pressure. I'm sure seller had to have known the oil pressure showed low, yet he didn't reveal that to me. Long story short, it had a bad gauge. I never really blamed the seller, I blamed myself for not doing enough inspection. Fortunately I ended up with nice machine for a great price and I think that was partially due to the seller thinking the engine was going to grenade....