Caroni Flail Belt Failure

[leonz]

Yet another data point.

Suffered catastrophic belt failure (all three) yesterday. All of them twisted, melted, shredded and snapped. Significant melted/hardened residue on the tensioner. Not sure of exact hours, but I've only a single 50 hour engine oil change since purchasing the unit last year, and mowing is the minority of my use. Probably less than 20 hours on the Caroni.

These were the original belts, and mowing conditions were far from severe - I've mowed through much taller/wetter material with ease. Mostly dry field grass, max 24" height, most much lower.

On the "perhaps I share some responsibility" front - while I've shot a couple pumps of grease in each zerk every time used and kept the gearbox full, I've never had the belt cover off to inspect or adjust tension. Given that all three belts were destroyed, I can't say where things were prior to failure. Also, I did notice while mowing that things seemed a bit off for 10 minutes or so prior to failure...there was no belt squeal I could hear, but it did seem to be down on cutting power a bit. The m0wer was lugging somewhat in grass/conditions that I recall it having zero issues with before.

No obvious problems upon taking things apart - everything spins freely, no excess grease residue, etc.

New belts on the way - unsure of the brand, but found some for $27 delivered via Amazon. Everywhere local wants $17+ each, Gates or otherwise.

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I hope the curse of the "A" boats has not moved inland!!!!!!!!!


I think you had a loose belt situation which melted the V-belts due to being
loose and having a poor grip on the pulleys.


The V-belt snubber would have been of no help because it is tensioned manually.

The green kevlar belts of this size were under ten bucks the last time I bought one for
my Mathews Co. Lawn Genie at NAPA.

Be extra carefull with the new belts and be sure that they are of the same lot number before
you install them because each lot number is different in that each run of man made nylon thread
is different.

 

[IslandTractor]

Yet another data point.

Suffered catastrophic belt failure (all three) yesterday. All of them twisted, melted, shredded and snapped. Significant melted/hardened residue on the tensioner. Not sure of exact hours, but I've only a single 50 hour engine oil change since purchasing the unit last year, and mowing is the minority of my use. Probably less than 20 hours on the Caroni.

These were the original belts, and mowing conditions were far from severe - I've mowed through much taller/wetter material with ease. Mostly dry field grass, max 24" height, most much lower.

On the "perhaps I share some responsibility" front - while I've shot a couple pumps of grease in each zerk every time used and kept the gearbox full, I've never had the belt cover off to inspect or adjust tension. Given that all three belts were destroyed, I can't say where things were prior to failure. Also, I did notice while mowing that things seemed a bit off for 10 minutes or so prior to failure...there was no belt squeal I could hear, but it did seem to be down on cutting power a bit. The m0wer was lugging somewhat in grass/conditions that I recall it having zero issues with before.

No obvious problems upon taking things apart - everything spins freely, no excess grease residue, etc.

New belts on the way - unsure of the brand, but found some for $27 delivered via Amazon. Everywhere local wants $17+ each, Gates or otherwise.

A lot of us had fairly early belt failure but my replacement set of Gates belts have lasted at least 3 or 4 seasons now without incident. I did tighten the tension as much as I could after the initial failure. Hard to get the tension much beyond half inch deflection.

 

[King of the Road]

Reporting in with a catastrophic belt failure on my 73" Caroni flail.

I had 16 hours on the tractor and 10 hours or so on the flail.

I hope to find some belts locally in the morning so I can mow all day tomorrow.

Thanks to the posters in this thread with all the info.

 

[leonz]

I just saw this now-


Kevlar belts at TSC or NAPA BE SURE THE BELTS WITH THE SAME LOT NUMBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kaman bearing for two Web V Belts

 

[King of the Road]

Ordered 6 belts from here: B43 V-Belt - $3.55

$3.55 each.

Six belts plus shipping($11.50 for UPS Ground) was $32.80.

Couldn't find any local on a Sunday so I'll roll the dice on some cheapies. When I smoke one set I'll order some Gates belts for a back up.

 

[Arc weld]

The proper belt probably costs more than all 6 of the cheap belts. You want to run a flail mower with a $3.55 belt? :duh:

 

[IslandTractor]

The proper belt probably costs more than all 6 of the cheap belts. You want to run a flail mower with a $3.55 belt? :duh:

That's probably the same quality as the factory supplies. Odd, because the mower is not cheaply made but almost everyone burns up the original set of belts in the first season or so.

 

[joemd11]

Anyone have the correct # for the Gates belt. I have about 50 hours on my Caroni and the belt is fine so far but I want to have a spare.

 

[King of the Road]

The proper belt probably costs more than all 6 of the cheap belts. You want to run a flail mower with a $3.55 belt? :duh:

Did you read what I posted?

No local belts available on a Sunday.

I ordered some cheapies to try.

I'll use the first set, and when they break I'll install the second set and order a set of Gates to have on hand.

If the cheapies work I win.

If they don't, I gambled $3.55 per belt.

 

[King of the Road]

Anyone have the correct # for the Gates belt. I have about 50 hours on my Caroni and the belt is fine so far but I want to have a spare.

B43. You need three of them.

 

[joemd11]

Great. Thanks for the info.

B43. You need three of them.

 

[Hill Billy Bob]

Reporting in with a catastrophic belt failure on my 73" Caroni flail.

I had 16 hours on the tractor and 10 hours or so on the flail.

I hope to find some belts locally in the morning so I can mow all day tomorrow.

Thanks to the posters in this thread with all the info.

I purchased this same mower model in August of this year. Took me 14 hours to cook my belts. I had removed belt cover to lube all fittings, even drew up tension adjusting bolt a half inch, cuz belts seemed a bit loose. After 10 hours run time, removed again...things seemed ok. Four hours later...smoked-um. Bought a new set of belts from the same place you did...went with their Kevlar ones tho.

I found the problem in the process of changing the belts, it was that the idler pulley mounting bracket was not free enough to move. Took a couple of swats with the heel of my hand to get it to move at all. Removed bracket from mower, cleaned off the grease, used a strip of emery cloth to polish things a tad, put bracket back on, a few shots of grease....now, if nudged, the tensioner pulley and bracket swing like a clock pendulum.

Have run new belts 30+ hours so far. I take a look at belts in motion occasionally, to make sure idler pulley and tension spring are wiggling the way they should....Bob

 

[OrangeKrawler]

I have a Caroni TM1900 and experienced belt failure at about 8 hours of use, mostly in heavy grass and light brush. Searching for belts now--I'll call AgriSupply and try that part #20992 as noted above. I like the job this mower does, and it's width given that I have 4km of 10' wide trails to keep clean. Just hope the belts don't fail this often!

 

[GinNB]

OrangeKrawler, you have way too much horsepower available for those belts if you're using that 8540 on it. You could burn a set off very quickly if you tried or weren't aware of the load. Go slooowly in heavy grass and don't cut too low. Use two passes if you need to.

 

[OrangeKrawler]

Ahhhhh, thanks for the heads up on overpowering the mower. I ran it last year on a JD4400 (37hp), but sold that this spring and changed to an M8540 (narrow/krawler version with 85hp). After 2 hrs...belt burnout. If I run it at 540 I should be OK, regardless of tractor hp. I was hitting some heavy brush and (hindsight is great) stupidly goosed the RPMs. It's all coming into focus now! Cheers and thanks!

 

[leonz]

Ahhhhh, thanks for the heads up on overpowering the mower. I ran it last year on a JD4400 (37hp), but sold that this spring and changed to an M8540 (narrow/krawler version with 85hp). After 2 hrs...belt burnout. If I run it at 540 I should be OK, regardless of tractor hp. I was hitting some heavy brush and (hindsight is great) stupidly goosed the RPMs. It's all coming into focus now! Cheers and thanks!

Yup, too much power. raise the cutting height by lowering the rear roller, purchase the Kevlar belts for
it and do half cuts and or slow down to a very low ground speed and you will be fine.

Do you have the metal tracks on your 8540 or the rubber ones?

Are you happy with the quality of the cab and controls assembly for the 8540?

Be sure to change the air fitration filters often as folks do not change filters enough.

If I have not welcomed you to the Flail Mower Nation previously I want to welcome you now.


you can buy the Kevlar belts at TSC, NAPA, Farm and Fleet, Menards etc.

Happy tractoring

 

[GinNB]

Too much HP needed (and applied) for the job asked of the mower will burn your belts regardless of PTO shaft RPM. Over-revving the mower will actually make it cut better, requiring less torque to do the job asked of it, assuming you could travel the same speed and just up the mower speed (dual speed button downshift and raise the RPMs 20% at the same time). That'll destroy bearings and gearboxes faster and is definitely not recommended, but flails cut better and easier the faster they are run. That's why manufacturers recommend that they be run at 540 PTO rpm (more revolutions per second effectively divides the required torque into smaller chunks and throws more knife cuts per second at a faster tip speed at the job). Travelling 2mph in 2nd at 2200 engine rpm and 540 PTO rpm cuts better and is easier on the mower than the same 2mph in, say, 3rd gear at 1100 engine rpm and 270 pto rpm. That doesn't change the fact that (and I'll pick numbers at random here) it might take 40hp sustained to cut your tall grass down low traveling at 4mph when there is long grass wrapped around the cutting edges of your flail knives, making it an extremely inefficient way to cut grass. In a smaller tractor it'd be bogging down pretty heavily and that would train the driver to slow down. In your tractor the belts just start heating, stretching, slipping, burning, and failing. Most manufacturers have a recommended HP range listed for their mowers, not just a minimum. A person can run a bigger tractor than the max recommended one but realize that it can cause premature mower failure if care isn't taken. The belts are designed to be the weak part to save more expensive and dangerous bits (driveshafts, gearboxes) from flying apart and possibly injuring someone.

A Caroni isn't the same as a Maschio which is a better fit for the HP your tractor can put out. You'll be able to start to lug your tractor with a Maschio without the ability to burn out belts every half hour like you can with that Caroni. I know you haven't been but you could. Note that the max HP for the Maschio in this link stay the same (90hp) regardless of width while the minimum recommended horsepower rises with width.

http://www.maschionet.com/catalog/product/chiara/en_GB

 

[OrangeKrawler]

Slowing down is a key--my first hour I was running at very low speeds. Got comfortable with how it was handling behind the M8540 and up the speed and lowered the cut. Hindsight again: oops. Very happy with the M8540 cab and controls, as well as the ease of unloading/loading the loader, and overall operation. Rubber tracks. Thanks for the advice on the filters and source of belts.

 

[OrangeKrawler]

Thanks for the excellent feedback. As noted above, I had purchased the Caroni for a JD4400. Did not give it much thought when moving up to the Kubota M8540. I'll give it a go for awhile running the PTO at 540RPMs, keeping the tractor speed slow, and raising the cut in deep/heavy grass. If I keep burning up belts, then I'll look to sell the Caroni and swap to a better-matched flail mower. Thanks again for being so helpful

 

[JayRm]

Has anyone had experience with the Kevlar belts over Gates B43? Being new to the Caroni flail mower, I'm a bit confused over which replacement belts to have on hand? Thanks.