Solar & Wind Power

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/ Solar & Wind Power #41  
Paid education for military personal is a paid benefit in return for service . It is not a perk or subsidy.

So should the government reimburse every university graduate who enlists for five or more years for the full cost of private or state college tuition, living expenses and a four year stipend as well as give them four years credit towards retirement? If not then the tuition free military academies are in fact giving away a perk or subsidy to a select few.
 
/ Solar & Wind Power #42  
Helen Caldicott (referenced about half a dozen times or more in this paper) has been ranting about nuclear energy for decades. Yes, there are risks with nuclear power generation. What this paper ignores is that there are risks with every other source of power generation too. Fossil fuel certainly has major health implications and has directly and indirectly killed many hundred thousands more than nuclear energy. Fossil fuels are also the leading cause of man's contribution to climate change whereas nukes have almost no effect. I'
d say it is fair to work to understand and minimize the risks associated with nuclear power but silly to exaggerate such concerns out of context.[/Q
UOTE]

I couldn't agree more. But having worked in the industry for a short time, I was able to form my own personal concept as to how the industry was run. It is not some isolated laboratory operation where the workers all have degrees in Radiation Health Physics; it is a huge operation that ranges from huge mining and milling operations with all the attendant problems normally associated with mining and milling, to the conversion of huge quantities of radioactive Ammonium/Uranium (Yellow cake) material to UF6 in a factory-like setting; the loading, transportation and further conversion/purification to a solid Uranium compound, and then processed further into fuel pellets.

These operations roughly parallel the handling of any other mineral, but with the problem of radioactivity to deal with. When dealing with contracts, profit, deadlines and Q/C issues, sometimes health and environmental issues are not given the attention they deserve, especially when the management consists of people whose expertise is in the areas of Geology, Engineering and Chemistry. Nuclear energy has come a long way since the days that miners worked in Radon laden mines, but part of their problem is that some sloppy methodology they followed in the past still hangs around their neck like a millstone.
 
/ Solar & Wind Power #43  
So should the government reimburse every university graduate who enlists for five or more years for the full cost of private or state college tuition, living expenses and a four year stipend as well as give them four years credit towards retirement? If not then the tuition free military academies are in fact giving away a perk or subsidy to a select few.

Non of that. The education for military is just part of the pay package. No different than dental or prescription meds benefits .
 
/ Solar & Wind Power #46  
Sharp, Kyocera, LG, Schott

These are the "real" solar companies. They have been and are in it for the long haul.
 
/ Solar & Wind Power #47  
This is an interesting article about solar and wind capacity. The author doesn't seem to think much of their true capacity without having a way to store the energy. In effect he says solar and wind public generation is worthless. At least that is what I think he said.

Forbes Welcome
 
/ Solar & Wind Power #48  
The Forbes article presents a true picture of the generation potentials. I've been tracking the trends in energy generation in the US over the last 20+ years using EIA (Energy Information Administration) data. The % contribution of "renewables" to total electric generation has been almost constant for the last 20 years. All the increase in wind/solar "capacity" has barely kept up with the loss of hydro contribution over that period of time. The only reason that the US greenhouse gas emissions have gone down is the switch from coal to natural gas. Part of Bernie Sanders platform is to close the existing nuclear plants in the US. If that path is taken, it will result in significant increases in CO2 emissions or rolling blackouts.
 
/ Solar & Wind Power #49  
This is an interesting article about solar and wind capacity. The author doesn't seem to think much of their true capacity without having a way to store the energy. In effect he says solar and wind public generation is worthless. At least that is what I think he said.

Forbes Welcome

The problem with Forbes "Opinion" pieces is that they are never written by true journalists who have investigated an issue. Instead they are virtually always the work product of an "expert" who has a definite agenda. It can take a while to figure out what that agenda is and who is paying for the author to produce their "opinions" but they all seem to be slick PR pieces.

In this particular case, we find the author, Alex Epstein, says he is part of an organization called the Center for Industrial Progress. Pretty impressive sounding. Would you believe he is the founder and only member??? This guy is a philosophy major from Duke who was excited by Ayn Rand and now writes books telling everyone that fossil fuels are wonderful for the environment. I wonder who funds his for profit Center for Industrial Progress. He is a quack and a shill for the oil industry pure and simple. He writes on energy and climate science and his only preparation is an undergraduate philosophy degree...come on, give me a break.

Forbes is notorious for this sort of biased publication. The Forbes article most certainly does NOT present a true picture of anything. The guy is a quack in service of the oil industry.

Look into the authors and their backgrounds before believing what they say folks. Alex Epstein (American writer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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/ Solar & Wind Power #50  
The problem with Forbes "Opinion" pieces is that they are never written by true journalists who have investigated an issue. Instead they are virtually always the work product of an "expert" who has a definite agenda. It can take a while to figure out what that agenda is and who is paying for the author to produce their "opinions" but they all seem to be slick PR pieces. In this particular case, we find the author, Alex Epstein, says he is part of an organization called the Center for Industrial Progress. Pretty impressive sounding. Would you believe he is the founder and only member??? This guy is a philosophy major from Duke who was excited by Ayn Rand and now writes books telling everyone that fossil fuels are wonderful for the environment. I wonder who funds his for profit Center for Industrial Progress. He is a quack and a shill for the oil industry pure and simple. He writes on energy and climate science and his only preparation is an undergraduate philosophy degree...come on, give me a break. Forbes is notorious for this sort of biased publication. The Forbes article most certainly does NOT present a true picture of anything. The guy is a quack in service of the oil industry. Look into the authors and their backgrounds before believing what they say folks. Alex Epstein (American writer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
High-Tech Solar Projects Fail to Deliver - WSJ The problem is solar and wind don't really work when scaled up..... And can't or will never replace gas/coal. You get all distracted with pushing your agenda and never address the facts. There is nothing wrong or bad in burning coal or gas, and there is an unlimited supply, making them as renewable as solar or wind. The reasons or motivation to explore power production that reduces CO2 have been proven wrong, the need to use or switch to either is gone. No one cares or believes the hoax anymore. HS
 
/ Solar & Wind Power #52  
The problem with Forbes "Opinion" pieces is that they are never written by true journalists who have investigated an issue. Instead they are virtually always the work product of an "expert" who has a definite agenda. It can take a while to figure out what that agenda is and who is paying for the author to produce their "opinions" but they all seem to be slick PR pieces. In this particular case, we find the author, Alex Epstein, says he is part of an organization called the Center for Industrial Progress. Pretty impressive sounding. Would you believe he is the founder and only member??? This guy is a philosophy major from Duke who was excited by Ayn Rand and now writes books telling everyone that fossil fuels are wonderful for the environment. I wonder who funds his for profit Center for Industrial Progress. He is a quack and a shill for the oil industry pure and simple. He writes on energy and climate science and his only preparation is an undergraduate philosophy degree...come on, give me a break. Forbes is notorious for this sort of biased publication. The Forbes article most certainly does NOT present a true picture of anything. The guy is a quack in service of the oil industry. Look into the authors and their backgrounds before believing what they say folks. Alex Epstein (American writer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow, IslandTractor, I am truly impressed. An excellent post, and a fine example of the principle of "critical thinking" that we stress so much where I teach.

And thanks for letting me know about Forbes magazine. I had no idea! I will remember this lesson from now on whenever I read anything from that particular publication. Never too old to learn something new!
 
/ Solar & Wind Power #53  
How about the modertors close this thread? It is not serving the purpose of the OP:
So long as the discussion remains civil, there is no reason to close it down. We all know energy is a politically touchy subject these days (?always) but reasonable people can discuss their disagreements politely.

In an era when most everyone chooses what news source to read and typically chooses sources that have the same political bias as themselves, discussions like this allow us all to see what and why the "other side" believes in their version of reality.

Sharing ideas, even if not strictly about tractoring, is important.
 
/ Solar & Wind Power #54  
Wow, IslandTractor, I am truly impressed. An excellent post, and a fine example of the principle of "critical thinking" that we stress so much where I teach. And thanks for letting me know about Forbes magazine. I had no idea! I will remember this lesson from now on whenever I read anything from that particular publication. Never too old to learn something new!
You could make same observations of NYTimes. HS
 
/ Solar & Wind Power #55  
So long as the discussion remains civil, there is no reason to close it down. We all know energy is a politically touchy subject these days (?always) but reasonable people can discuss their disagreements politely. In an era when most everyone chooses what news source to read and typically chooses sources that have the same political bias as themselves, discussions like this allow us all to see what and why the "other side" believes in their version of reality. Sharing ideas, even if not strictly about tractoring, is important.
Wow, that's the biggest insight statement of some know it all pointed headed liberal about what the unwashed uneducated masses believes. This is the most offensive statement I've ever seen on TBN. Arrogance at it's purest. You owe everyone on TBN an apology. HS
 
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/ Solar & Wind Power #57  
I am all for wind and solar. If private industry want to foot the bill and be paid the daily non subsidized wholesale grid rate.
With the energy prices in Hawaii and some small isolated electrical grids in small, poor, isolated island country or state. Solar could now be close to breaking even.
 
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/ Solar & Wind Power #58  
The real problem is not of the ultimate potential of renewable energy. It is the stupidity of mankind to keep reproducing (mostly based on vanity and religious faith) instead of adapting to the finite resources available to us. However, the people pushing green energy in politics have a different agenda, which is basically wealth re-distribution. In other words, tax the western nations to death and give that money to 3rd world countries where it will be stolen by corrupt government before it ever has any impact on the regular people.

No political candidate is willing to candidly address the concept of a reduction in total human population, along with the obvious conclusion that continuous growth (economic and otherwise) is just as impossible as a perpetual motion machine.

In the post modern world, we have unfortunately reached a point where facts no longer interest anyone, only the fulfilment of various frivolous ideals.
 
/ Solar & Wind Power #59  
The problem with Forbes "Opinion" pieces is that they are never written by true journalists who have investigated an issue. Instead they are virtually always the work product of an "expert" who has a definite agenda. It can take a while to figure out what that agenda is and who is paying for the author to produce their "opinions" but they all seem to be slick PR pieces.

In this particular case, we find the author, Alex Epstein, says he is part of an organization called the Center for Industrial Progress. Pretty impressive sounding. Would you believe he is the founder and only member??? This guy is a philosophy major from Duke who was excited by Ayn Rand and now writes books telling everyone that fossil fuels are wonderful for the environment. I wonder who funds his for profit Center for Industrial Progress. He is a quack and a shill for the oil industry pure and simple. He writes on energy and climate science and his only preparation is an undergraduate philosophy degree...come on, give me a break.

Forbes is notorious for this sort of biased publication. The Forbes article most certainly does NOT present a true picture of anything. The guy is a quack in service of the oil industry.

Look into the authors and their backgrounds before believing what they say folks. Alex Epstein (American writer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IT,

If I may I'd like to respectfully challenge your judgement on this one.

First off, Epstein as a philosophy major and college trained writer, is probably very qualified to write on the moral aspects of fossil fuel use. I can easily see a valid claim that a large part of mankind's current welfare and wealth is due to our ability to extract and use fossil fuels. In fact, I can see the claim that a very expensive switch to "green" alternatives may only be possible due to the wealth generated by the use of fossil fuels. (Of course that assumes that those who held that wealth are willing to spend it in such a fashion.) I do worry about the moral implications of switching to expensive "green" energy. A large part of that cost will be born by those least able to afford their increased electric bills, more expensive cars, restricted mobility and decreased economic activity. It is reasonable to expect that a philosopher could easily be qualified to opine on such moral considerations. So I am curious, would you be so quick to criticize Forbes and him if he was saying that "green" is good and fossil fuels were bad?

Second, my experience is that who is trained as something is not necessarily capable of doing that task and that some with little or no training are far more capable than some who are trained/experts in that area.

Let me share four real examples. I'm a trained CPA who formerly practiced public accounting for one of the largest such firms in the world. I have almost 40 years of accounting/executive experience.

First, the best accountant I ever had work for me had only three hours of college credit. She could make and balance complex entries, balance and maintain that balance of large inventory, receivable and payable accounts. She clearly understood assets, liabilities, equity, revenue and expenses.

Second, during her tenure, I had two other accountants. One had a bachelor's degree with a high GPA (3.9 if I remember correctly.) and was studying to take the CPA exam. That accountant had trouble debiting cash and crediting a receivable or revenue. She had absolutely no understanding of assets, liabilities, etc. Not surprising, I promoted the capable, proficient and untrained accountant. Unfortunately, I had to let the trained accountant go. She just couldn't do the work.

Third, the other degreed accountant was also unproductive. My assessment was she had some skills but was totally unmotivated to put forth real effort or care about real results. I managed to keep her productive enough that I didn't have to fire her but it was a struggle.

Finally, and probably most dramatic example happened during a presentation by a partner in a large architectural/engineering firm. We had requested plans for an intricate four story office building. The partner was presenting the detailed drawings and painting a grandiose picture of a very complex design. One attendee in the meeting was a residential builder whose college degree was in English. He had no training as an architect/engineer/builder but we all knew who built beautiful very large homes. As this untrained builder looked through the drawings he suddenly stopped, flipped back a couple of pages then back to the page that had caught his attention and simply stated "This isn't possible. It can't be built." The next 30 minutes were spent with the highly trained and experienced engineer architect patronizingly calling him dumb and the builder holding to his claim of impossibility. Suddenly the the engineer's eyes widened and he froze. After what seemed like an eternity, the builder asked "Do you see the problem now? The problem can be solved by either X or Y" (The specifics of those suggestions went over most of the heads in that room, mine included.) The engineer quietly rolled up the drawings, apologized for the problem and promised to redo the plans.

As I recounted these four examples, many more started coming to mind. My point is not to denigrate formal training but to point out that what really shows an expert is demonstrated success in a particular endeavor.

So, where I am challenging you is to recognize that Epstein may, or may not be, capable of productively opining on the morality of fossil fuels (and conversely of "green" energy) and that we all are prone to jumping to the conclusion that supports our own agenda. I'm not meaning to tick you off or start a fight, I just think your conclusion was too quick and not as accurate as you think.

Respectfully,

Greg
 
/ Solar & Wind Power
  • Thread Starter
#60  
Fear not. From some of the descriptive post's it will happen soon!

I am sure you are right. #55 is a lot more abusivve than anything on the thread that was closed. In fact I thought the previous thread was quite good - a lot of posts but it was, on the whole, civil. I also learned a few things through reading the posts and the links that were given. I was not participating much in the end because nobody seemed to believe how effective and economic windpower is in Portugal, so I gave up trying, but I was still reading the posts with interest.
 
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