My NX6010

Threepoint · Feb 29, 2016

Hard Knocks said:
Keep an eye on the dash when you have movement problems. Look to see if the "CAL" light is illuminated. If you happen to hit the reverse peddle at the same time as the forward the computer goes into safe mode. You may not even realize that the reverse peddle got tapped when attempting to move forward. (Same thing with going in reverse and nudging the forward peddle) When the unit goes into safe mode the transmission is disabled and the CAL light illuminates. You need to leave both peddles released for a few seconds for it to reset. If you keep trying the forward and reverse peddle it will not reset. The next assumption is that it popped out of gear. When you start messing with the shifter the computer resets and the logical explanation is that the range shifter must have jumped out of gear because it works now.

We have had two complaints on NX's jumping out of gear and in both cases after showing the customer this situation they both have reported back that this was the issue. We now have the customer push both peddles during our delivery training to show them what happens.

Try to push both peddles at the same time and watch the CAL light. You will see how it is possible to get into an endless cycle by attempting to move forward and reverse without giving the system a chance to reset with no peddles depressed. This safety is built into protect the transmission.

In your case Eric it sounds like you have actually verified that your shifter jumped forward. I will be curious to hear the outcome on that one.

Hard Knocks, thanks for posting this. I think it may indeed be the explanation for what I thought was the transmission popping into neutral the few times it happened to me with my NX4510HST cab. Last night I spent 45 minutes grading our access road and did some experimenting. Pressing simultaneously on the forward/reverse pedals, even lightly, caused the HST to go into safe mode and the Calibration light to come on as you describe. I then had to wait a few seconds before either pedal would make the tractor move again. It was only about three seconds, but if, in the meantime, I pressed either pedal, safe mode would not clear until I kept my foot off the pedals for the full three seconds. It is easy to see how this could produce an endless cycle for a few moments, as the tendency is to keep trying to nudge the tractor either forward or backward while fiddling with the range selector lever.

Thinking back again on the few times I thought the tractor was popping out of Mid range into neutral, I now suspect this is what was happening instead. Unlike in Eric's case, I heard no sound to indicate the shift lever actually moved. And while I wasn't looking at the shift lever as it was happening, it seemed to be in the same position the whole time, and the range indicator light on the instrument panel continued to display "M". In a post above (#1101), I noted that raising and lowering the FEL allowed the tractor to start moving again, hence my speculation that this might be related to hydraulic flow. Now I suspect that just keeping my foot off the F or R pedals while I worked the joystick was actually what cleared the condition, just by allowing the safe mode enough time to clear!

This morning I went through the owner's manual for the NX series to see if there is any mention of this "safe mode" feature. Nope. I only saw only one reference at all to the Calibration light (in Sec. 4-19), and even that was simply to identify the light on the instrument panel. Nothing at all about what the light means if it comes on. Sec. 4-16 identifies the Calibration switch, located on the right-side fender cover, but says only that "The switch is to calibrate response of HST. Only for service," and says to contact the dealer "if you need to calibrate the action of HST."

Hard Knocks, do you know if the "safe mode" feature that we're talking about is new with the NX series? Seems to me this is something that Kioti should add to future printing of the owner's manual. Probably even worthy of a "sticky" on TBN's Kioti forum.

Time will tell if this is really the answer to the "popping into neutral" issue in my particular case. But seems to fit.

MinnesotaEric · Feb 29, 2016

Threepoint said:
Hard Knocks, thanks for posting this. I think it may indeed be the explanation for what I thought was the transmission popping into neutral the few times it happened to me with my NX4510HST cab. Last night I spent 45 minutes grading our access road and did some experimenting. Pressing simultaneously on the forward/reverse pedals, even lightly, caused the HST to go into safe mode and the Calibration light to come on as you describe. I then had to wait a few seconds before either pedal would make the tractor move again. It was only about three seconds, but if, in the meantime, I pressed either pedal, safe mode would not clear until I kept my foot off the pedals for the full three seconds. It is easy to see how this could produce an endless cycle for a few moments, as the tendency is to keep trying to nudge the tractor either forward or backward while fiddling with the range selector lever.

Thinking back again on the few times I thought the tractor was popping out of Mid range into neutral, I now suspect this is what was happening instead. Unlike in Eric's case, I heard no sound to indicate the shift lever actually moved. And while I wasn't looking at the shift lever as it was happening, it seemed to be in the same position the whole time, and the range indicator light on the instrument panel continued to display "M". In a post above (#1101), I noted that raising and lowering the FEL allowed the tractor to start moving again, hence my speculation that this might be related to hydraulic flow. Now I suspect that just keeping my foot off the F or R pedals while I worked the joystick was actually what cleared the condition, just by allowing the safe mode enough time to clear!

This morning I went through the owner's manual for the NX series to see if there is any mention of this "safe mode" feature. Nope. I only saw only one reference at all to the Calibration light (in Sec. 4-19), and even that was simply to identify the light on the instrument panel. Nothing at all about what the light means if it comes on. Sec. 4-16 identifies the Calibration switch, located on the right-side fender cover, but says only that "The switch is to calibrate response of HST. Only for service," and says to contact the dealer "if you need to calibrate the action of HST."

Hard Knocks, do you know if the "safe mode" feature that we're talking about is new with the NX series? Seems to me this is something that Kioti should add to future printing of the owner's manual. Probably even worthy of a "sticky" on TBN's Kioti forum.

Time will tell if this is really the answer to the "popping into neutral" issue in my particular case. But seems to fit.

To be clear, when my transmission pops from gear into neutral, the shift lever itself moves from medium or low forward into neutral. Threepoint, you had led me to believe that is what you also experienced. If I recall from the one time I did so, with rev-matching on, when mashing on both HST pedals, the engine revs up, the calibration light flashes, and the tractor doesn't move.

Hard Knocks · Feb 29, 2016

Yes Threepoint this is new with the NX series. The DK series hydrostat was mechanically controlled with the forward and reverse peddles. The peddles were also mechanically interlocked making it impossible to activate forward and reverse at the same time.

The NX series now uses an electrical signal from the peddle to activate the hydrostat. When you press a peddle you are moving a potentiometer with no physical connection to the transmission. The lockout is designed to protect the transmission from being told to advance both forward and reverse at the same time. This new electric operation allows Kioti to add the new features like no stall and PTO cruise and linked peddle.

You are correct about the poor documentation on this. Had I not been struggling to solve the " jumping out of gear" issue for a customer over a year ago I would have had no clue. I could not duplicate the problem or find anything physically wrong with the transmission. We started thinking about other possibilities and stumbled upon a brief note in the service manual. As it turns out my customers boots were too big LOL. Shortly after solving this one we got another complaint about jumping out of gear. A quick visit on site and some demonstration with the customer solved the problem. Both machines have not "jumped out of gear" since. As I mentioned before, we now include this topic in our customer training when delivering a new NX series tractor.

As I mentioned before it sounds like Eric has a completely different issue but I will bet that this knowledge will solve a few of the others.

joefromga · Feb 29, 2016

I have also learned that when the backhoe stabilizers have lifted the rear tires not completely off the ground but nearly and you forget and try to drive forward and it doesn't move you feel real silly after 15 minutes of trying to figure out why your hydro system is broke.

TJP89 · Feb 29, 2016

joefromga said:
I have also learned that when the backhoe stabilizers have lifted the rear tires not completely off the ground but nearly and you forget and try to drive forward and it doesn't move you feel real silly after 15 minutes of trying to figure out why your hydro system is broke.

I've done that on my lawn tractor. Put the little lever thing in back in neutral to push, then wonder why the thing won't move when I move the pedal.

Threepoint · Feb 29, 2016

EricTheOracle said:
To be clear, when my transmission pops from gear into neutral, the shift lever itself moves from medium or low forward into neutral. Threepoint, you had led me to believe that is what you also experienced. If I recall from the one time I did so, with rev-matching on, when mashing on both HST pedals, the engine revs up, the calibration light flashes, and the tractor doesn't move.

Eric, apologies if I implied that my shift lever actually moved from M into neutral. Looking back at my post #1071, where I first reported the issue, I see that I probably gave that impression. But there was no accompanying sound, and I was not looking down. After I fiddled with the lever a bit, the tractor would move again, so I just assumed I'd gone into neutral. Now that Hard Knocks has posted about the "safe mode" feature, I'm thinking that I may never have actually popped into neutral in the first place, rather just went into safe mode. At least I hope that's all that it was. I was wearing big rubber boots because of the depth of the snow, so maybe I caught both forward and reverse pedals at the same time. Now that I know about safe mode, I'll be more alert to what's happening if I experience the issue again.

Both of my HST Kubotas have a rocker pedal for forward and reverse. I've really come to prefer the side-by-side pedal design of the Kioti. But the new "safe mode" feature in the NX introduces a potential drawback, if not careful with foot placement.

Threepoint · Feb 29, 2016

Hard Knocks said:
Yes Threepoint this is new with the NX series. The DK series hydrostat was mechanically controlled with the forward and reverse peddles. The peddles were also mechanically interlocked making it impossible to activate forward and reverse at the same time.

The NX series now uses an electrical signal from the peddle to activate the hydrostat. When you press a peddle you are moving a potentiometer with no physical connection to the transmission. The lockout is designed to protect the transmission from being told to advance both forward and reverse at the same time. This new electric operation allows Kioti to add the new features like no stall and PTO cruise and linked peddle.

You are correct about the poor documentation on this. Had I not been struggling to solve the " jumping out of gear" issue for a customer over a year ago I would have had no clue. I could not duplicate the problem or find anything physically wrong with the transmission. We started thinking about other possibilities and stumbled upon a brief note in the service manual. As it turns out my customers boots were too big LOL. Shortly after solving this one we got another complaint about jumping out of gear. A quick visit on site and some demonstration with the customer solved the problem. Both machines have not "jumped out of gear" since. As I mentioned before, we now include this topic in our customer training when delivering a new NX series tractor.

As I mentioned before it sounds like Eric has a completely different issue but I will bet that this knowledge will solve a few of the others.

Thanks again for the info! :thumbsup:

94BULLITT · Mar 1, 2016

Kioti should have made the forward and reverse pedals connected together just like on the tractors with a mechanically controlled hydro. That would eliminate the problem of both pedals getting pressed at the same time and putting the tractor into safe mode.

k0ua · Mar 1, 2016

94BULLITT said:
Kioti should have made the forward and reverse pedals connected together just like on the tractors with a mechanically controlled hydro. That would eliminate the problem of both pedals getting pressed at the same time and putting the tractor into safe mode.

This is the way my older DK35se works. If you accidently push on both pedals at the same time, nothing happens. they don''t depress at all because they are hooked together mechanically. When the forward pedal goes down the reverse pedal goes up. If you foot presses on both at the same time, it is like pressing your foot on a brick wall, it doesn't move. It ain't fly by wire.