welders welders welders

/ welders welders welders #1  

blue9249

New member
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
18
Location
iowa
Tractor
1950 allis wd
ok, new guy here, i registered awhile ago but rarely post, more of a lurker if you will, soaking up information. anyhow i am looking into buying a welder, i am an aspiring agricultural diesel technician, so i wont be welding every day but weld more than the average joe, i have also taken welding classes in highschool, in this class it covered oxy- actelene welding, stick welding and mig welding, so i have some experience with multiple processes. i have mig welded more than stick but i have more confidence in my welds when stick welding, i know all to well that you can get good looking mig welds that wont even hold a mailbox on its post ( long story of an incident at work that i still get crap over lol).

to be clear this welder is not going to be for work, we have a miller mig welder that handles all the duties we need done there, this welder is going to be for home, where i will make occasional repairs and build some stuff. i am going to college in october and am entertaining the idea of building an enclosed trailer, as i am having a hard time finding a trailer that is built to the specs that i would like. after college i want the trailer to be built heavy enough to haul wood in, and all the trailers you can buy will not be built heavy enough for that, i have also thought about buying a used trailer and adding heavier axles and beefing up the frame, which would still include welding more metal in the frame.

i have noticed everlast and longevity welders sponsor this section, i am wondering if these welders are well built or if they are typical china grade welders, i have also looked into eastwood welders as well and have heard good and bad.

as for which process i am going to be buying that is still up in the air, i could make a stick welder work, and i could also make a mig welder work. mig welding is easier, and can also be more productive ( not having to switch electrodes all the time and ease of getting good looking beads) but on the other hand stick welding while harder to get good looking welds is also easier to spot bad welds, and like i said earlier i feel more confident while stick welding, but even that is slowly changing as i mig weld more at work. just this Thursday i did a little custom fabrication with the miller mig welder. We had a shelving unit that had a damaged leg that osha was not too pleased about, i cut two 3 inch pieces of angle iron and welded them together to make a 6 inch c channel, one side was welded to the leg of the shelve and the other side i fabricated an L bracket from some flat stock that i welded to the c channel and then anchored to the cement floor. i painted the whole deal black and since i spent considerable time prepping the angle iron and grinding down the weld the other mechanics and even the manager couldnt tell the c channel started its life as angle iron lol.

hopefully with all my ramblings you can gather enough info to help make a recommendation, if not just ask some questions i will be more than happy to answer.
 
/ welders welders welders #2  
You should look into a multi-process welders. SMAW, GTAW, GMAW all in the same unit. When it comes to Mig welding there is no substitute for power. Especially if you want to build a trailer.
 
/ welders welders welders #3  
<snip> i am going to college in october and am entertaining the idea of building an enclosed trailer, as i am having a hard time finding a trailer that is built to the specs that i would like. after college i want the trailer to be built heavy enough to haul wood in, and all the trailers you can buy will not be built heavy enough for that, i have also thought about buying a used trailer and adding heavier axles and beefing up the frame, which would still include welding more metal in the frame.<snip>

What are the specs you want for a trailer? Have you looked into a surplus military trailer?

I've been looking for a 10K GVW 14' enclosed trailer for about 3 years on CL and only have seen 1 or 2.

However the military is disposing of a lot of trailers which are built for heavy loads, and they could probably be modified to carry heavy loads.
 
/ welders welders welders #4  
I bought a MIG/TIG/Stick Miller MultiMatic 200. It runs on 120v or 240v. All said and done (bottle, TIG kit, spoolgun) it's somewhere towards $3000. If I had to do it again I'd buy two $1149 Everlasts 211s then I wouldn't have to transport the Miller between my two shops. Or that 251 looks cool too.

It doesn't take much to get your MIG welding such that welds don't break. You could be making some simple error. I don't know how to tell what you're doing wrong but possibly could if I was watching you weld. Good luck with that one. Hopefully someone nearby can help you with that before you get working on that trailer. My MM200 stick-welds very nicely, much better than I recall with the old buzz-box, but I only stick weld for sport. Or if I have to jam it down into a dirty old crack. :shocked: MIG is much more productive (for me).
 
/ welders welders welders #6  
I recently purchased Lincoln 210mp for $1,065 delivered and no tax off eBay from Canada.

Really like it so far.. MIG, stick and tig.

Check duty cycle on whatever you look at.
 
/ welders welders welders #7  
Check duty cycle on whatever you look at.

They are all at least 20% and does anybody ever run up against that? I suppose you could,,,,, if you were trying to hit it, Amps maxed, in a production shop, boss crackin' the whip.....:laughing: You'd have to be building a 5th wheel trailer, trying to finish cuz you have to go haul something in 18 hours.

OK yeah.....that would be fun in a way. But not on TBN, here we cut & fit parts to a gnats arse, then flapper-disc the weld area, write down the Amps, mic the welding wire, reset the breaker just to be sure, scrape out the nozzle & adjust the welding table a couple times. The welder is stone cold. :D

But really, aren't they all 20% and isn't 20% plenty? Waiting for the welder to cool down that one time in 5 years would be a challenge I think. Certainly it has happened, but I have never seen it nor even heard of it with my own ears.
 
/ welders welders welders #8  
20% duty cycle would be a huge issue for me! I'm new to this welding and fabricating game, so I must be doing it wrong:eek:. I cut, fit, and tack everything together. Check my measurements, and alignment. Then go into the welding mode.
 

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/ welders welders welders #9  
20% duty cycle would be a huge issue for me! I'm new to this welding and fabricating game, so I must be doing it wrong:eek:. I cut, fit, and tack everything together. Check my measurements, and alignment. Then go into the welding mode.

Don't worry, if you keep at it in a few years you will get it figured out. :laughing: Ed
 
/ welders welders welders #11  
My projects keep getting smaller......especially since they talked me into the TIG.:D

But honestly,,,,,really,,,,, who, in the last 5 years has had any welder shutdown due to duty cycle? Please

1) describe the size of the job
2) the number of weeks until the newbie will encounter a job of this size.

We have one data point. Shield Arc started welding 2 weeks ago and had a job big enough to run up against duty cycle in the 3rd week. But that's not enough data to advise that 20% is insufficient.

Anybody else?
 
/ welders welders welders #12  
The welder i have owned the longest and had the most experience with is a 150 amp mig that is rated at a 12%@140 amps and 20% @ 120 amps, yet in over 25 years of use i can't remember it ever shutting down or even lighting the over temp light.

But now that I am trying to learn to tig Aluminum with my (new to me 1962 lincoln tig 300 -300 with it's 60% duty cycle @300 amps ) It becomes obvious when learning to weld 1/4 and 3/8s Aluminum that amperage at duty cycle is important.

Aluminum tig welding of thick pieces is the duty cycle/amp problem child jmo and:2cents:
 
/ welders welders welders #13  
I can't say I've had many issues with duty cycle in my welding projects. I'm sure it's an issue for some people but for the average hobby welder it's probably not that important. I can only think of a handful of times I 've had that happen and it never was a big deal. Take a quick break or find something else to do on the project for a few minutes. Outside tems seems to make a difference from my experience so it might be a bigger deal than I realize if you live in an area with temps about 100.
 
/ welders welders welders #14  
When we built the Alaska ferry terminal in Bellingham Washington. I got stuck welding the pre cast concrete deck panels to the structural beams. I ran 70-pounds of wire a day at over 400-amps. 20% duty cycle wouldn't cut it on that project! :laughing:
 

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/ welders welders welders
  • Thread Starter
#15  
I bought a MIG/TIG/Stick Miller MultiMatic 200. It runs on 120v or 240v. All said and done (bottle, TIG kit, spoolgun) it's somewhere towards $3000. If I had to do it again I'd buy two $1149 Everlasts 211s then I wouldn't have to transport the Miller between my two shops. Or that 251 looks cool too.

It doesn't take much to get your MIG welding such that welds don't break. You could be making some simple error. I don't know how to tell what you're doing wrong but possibly could if I was watching you weld. Good luck with that one. Hopefully someone nearby can help you with that before you get working on that trailer. My MM200 stick-welds very nicely, much better than I recall with the old buzz-box, but I only stick weld for sport. Or if I have to jam it down into a dirty old crack. :shocked: MIG is much more productive (for me).

In that case I forgot to turn on the gas lol
 
/ welders welders welders #16  
Blue next time turn on the gas. There I just added something to my teaching repertoire, I'm that much close to being an a TBN expert on "the gas". Or maybe you just gave me some hot air.:D

My experience is with "20% machines" and I have never had one shut down in 25 years. And if it did once, I'd pat myself on the back, not go buy a bigger machine. I tried HARD to get my 20% machine to shut down. I did a test, welded 25 minutes straight, 147 inches of welding.
I was beat :shocked: but the machine did not shut down (see this thread).
Understood the high power requirements of Aluminum welding are more of a concern but rarely is aluminum discussed on TBN, I bet 1 in 1,000 newbies is gearing up for aluminum.

Almost all newbies here are tractor fellas (not production-welders) looking at small projects in steel, and often advised to concern themselves with Duty-Cycle. Any employer who willing to pay a journeyman welder's wages to sit there while the machine cools down, is kind of a fool. But this problem does not exist on TBN, so my question is, how did this "Duty-cycle" always make it into TBN's list of things to watch for?

There is a very important part of that advice and it's a NUMBER, in %. Nobody seems to know. The guy at the welding store gets more $$$ for a bigger %, that we know. Newbies are going to the store, giving their money to a salesman simply because forum peers cant tell them "the number"? We can do better.

What is "the number" that will satisfy 97% of TBN's welder purchases, for Steel?

The thread mentioned above (called "Question about duty cycle") ran 4 pages without anyone contesting that 20% all good. Since no GENUINE expert is gonna step out and say "Enough about the duty cycles - 20% is plenty!" I'm going to say it. Howzzat? Sodo is the TBN expert on Duty-Cycle! The world is run by those who show up. Steve would be proud.
:D
:D
:D
:D
Send me your detailed questions on Duty-cycle, and I will answer it "20%", Need more than that? Sorry I'm tapped out.
:D
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C4Ranch I hope I'm not pi**ing you off I enjoy your posts - I'm just having some fun, but seems like duty-cycle needs discussion.
 
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/ welders welders welders #17  
<snip>How did this "Duty-cycle" always make it into TBN's list of things to watch for?

I responded to this BS in previous discussions, and you insinuated that I was lying. No matter how you try, this is a simple discussion of needs, and others needs are not exactly the same as yours, believe it or not. From what he has said, very briefly, there is not enough specifics to know what "the ceiling" should be for him.

If you are interested in helping the guy you might want to inquire what metals, thicknesses, etc. that he knows he might be working with instead of going on and on about duty cycles...
 
/ welders welders welders #18  
20% duty cycle means you can weld for 2-minutes in a 10-minute time frame. :thumbdown:
 
/ welders welders welders #19  
My projects keep getting smaller......especially since they talked me into the TIG.:D

But honestly,,,,,really,,,,, who, in the last 5 years has had any welder shutdown due to duty cycle? Please

1) describe the size of the job
2) the number of weeks until the newbie will encounter a job of this size.

We have one data point. Shield Arc started welding 2 weeks ago and had a job big enough to run up against duty cycle in the 3rd week. But that's not enough data to advise that 20% is insufficient.

Anybody else?

Hit the thermal overload constantly with a Hobart Tigmate (econotig) transformer based welder. Haven't hit it since getting the replacement, but at 310A for 20% duty cycle my gloves run out of duty cycle long before the machine does. :laughing:

Seriously, 20% is nothing. There's a reason all the bigger machines are amperage rated to where they're 60% duty cycle. You still have 4 minutes out of 10 for arc off, but with a 20% you can only run 2 minutes out of the 10 minute window. 12 minutes useful arc time in an hour is not a lot. Even for a student it's downright painfully slow.
 
/ welders welders welders #20  
I've listed this before I think. But I've shut down or broken machines due to duty cycle several times.
I am not patient once items are fit and tacked - time to work and the welding machine needs to keep up.

This is why I recommended the tweco 211. A machine in this class has a high duty cycle in the midrange where most hobby/home use is done. Duty cycle becomes a non-issue.

The recommendation to look at duty cycles should not create arguments - a person should buy a machine that has a duty cycle in a range that they need at the amperage they intend to weld in.

For some it's 20% and never will be a problem, for others it's much higher - big deal.

I fail to understand the ranting being displayed over a very normal welder rating.
 

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