New land... need a tractor!!

[docsfarm]

So, we finally closed on our property. 197 acres in north-central PA. About 60 acres is field the rest is woods. 25+ acres is in the CREP program and will need the associated maintenance. I would like to plant a few food plots for deer, etc. I will need to open and clear out old logging roads and keep them cleaned out. Once we build our house, we will have approximately 1/3 mile driveway to maintain (stone, smooth and snow removal, etc..) And, about 2.5 acres to mow (minus whatever would go into garden). And of course any other projects I stumble into!!
The land is not flat except where the house and 2.5 acres will be. The rest is rather hilly. I would like 4WD.
My real question is how big of a tractor w FEL would I want here... I don't want too big so that I can maneuver in the woods. I'm thinking a 35-45HP CUT? It seems in what I've been researching that there is quite a difference in size and weight going from 35 to 40HP (at least in the NH Boomer line catalog that is near me right now).
I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts.
Oh, budget... I don't know? 20k? new or lightly used (200 or less hours) is fine by me. Trying to stay somewhat flexible.
Thanks

 

[DT86]

Congratulations on the property!

I believe you'll be disappointed in what $20k will buy in a new or slightly used tractor.

I would lean towards a utility tractor for the size place and tasks you have.

 

[jeff9366]

We finally closed on our property, 197 acres in north-central PA.

About 60 acres is field the rest is woods. 25+ acres is in the CREP program and will need the associated maintenance.

I would like to plant a few food plots for deer, etc.

The rest is rather hilly. I would like 4WD.

I'm thinking a 35-45HP CUT? It seems in what I've been researching that there is quite a difference in size and weight going from 35 to 40HP (at least in the NH Boomer line catalog that is near me right now).

Do you have tractor operating experience?

What do you intend to do with the 60 acres in field? Revenue producing land would get my attention and budget dollars first.

Tractor are inherently unstable. Heavy tractors are more stable than light tractors. Heavier tractors have more inertia, wider stance and wider tires. I would move up one increment and research tractors 40-hp to 45-hp because of your property size and having land with slopes.

Tractors from 20-hp to 60-hp are usually sold with FEL, 4-WD, HST transmission and R4/Industrial tires.

Tractors are highly theft prone and seldom recovered. Plan secure, humidity controlled storage, with a door tall enough so you can move the tractor in/out without folding/erecting the ROPS.



Here is a LINK to used tractors being offered on eBay, customized for Williamsport: Industrial Tractor | eBay

Here is a Kubota, about the right size and $20,000: Kubota L4400HST 4x4 Tractor w LA703 Loader 45 HP Hydrostatic 309 Hrs Nice | eBay

Here is a heavier, more powerful Kubota MX5200: 2010 Kubota MX5100 HST 4x4 Compact Diesel Tractor Loader Low Shipping Rates | eBay

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Congrats!
Want a Cab? (good in winter, bad in woods). Front or rear snowblower? (need mid PTO for front)
New Holland probably is not the place to start looking (IMO).
Might look at a small M series kubota, MX series Kubota, or a DK40 or NX series Kioti. Go to some dealers and browse.

 

[CDennyRun]

You can pick up lightly used 4x4/FEL Mahindra 50-ish HP tractors for around $20k. They make a pretty good tractor. You could get away with a 40HP rig, and probably be pretty happy. Just keep in mind the more tractor you have, the happier you'll be. I'm a big Ford/New Holland fan. If you can get a NH 45HP Workmaster, you'll more than likely be thrilled. The Workmasters are the less expensive of the NH CUTS, but are excellent machines.

Don't forget to look at Kioti, Branson, or LS if you have dealers locally.

Congrats on the new property!

Chris

 

[Terry1040]

What do you intend to do with the 60 acres in field? Revenue producing land would get my attention and budget dollars first.

Tractor are inherently unstable. Heavy tractors are more stable than light tractors. Heavier tractors have more inertia, wider stance and wider tires. I would move up one increment and research tractors 40-hp to 45-hp because of your property size and having land with slopes.

Tractors are highly theft prone and seldom recovered. Plan secure, humidity controlled storage, with a door tall enough so you can move the tractor in/out without folding/erecting the ROPS.

Jeff - good advise. The tractor theft is certainly a consideration also. More tractor = more stability for his rough land. Looks like nice property ! ENJOY.

 

[gladehound]

A few things to consider...

- stability - look for adjustable rear wheels (wider is more stable), fill the rear tires, appropriate other balast
- manuverability - split brakes make a larger tractor quite nimble
- loader strength and ability to run SSQA attachments - there is a big step up in loader performance when going to the large frame CUTs (as you mentioned, these typically start around 40hp). UTs will typically be another step up in in loader performance but not as dramatic a difference.

My current tractor is a Kioti DS4510HS, it would fit your needs well. I operate in woods all the time. If the vegetation is spaced too tight to get through, just make a path. I would not want any less tractor and wouldn't mind more so go bigger if you can. I got this tractor for $19.6k with loader and rear remote as a 2013 leftover/demo in Dec 2014. It had 50hrs'on the meter.

A lot of people will tell you to get HST. But you can get a lot more tractor for your dollar if you skip on HST. For your uses, a larger gear tractor will probably get more done than a smaller HST tractor.

to get the most at a 20k budget, Kioti and LS come to mind. Mahindra might have a good option for you as well. Many other good manufacturers, but some are pricy. Kubota MX are a decent value as well. Start checking tractorhouse, ebay and craigslist. Some good stuff will pop up. Good luck!

 

[varmint]

With some looking, you should be able to get a clean used Kubota (yah, I am partial to them, other brands might be just as good?) in the 30 HP range, with a loader and have enough money left to buy the rear blade and 6' mower you'll need to start with. A snowblower, if quality, will be costly, and a third of a mile of snow can be tamed with a front blade quite nicely.

If it has over 200 hours, I wouldn't let that stop me, if it was maintained and looks okay, assuming its operation checks out. You might start looking at Messicks used equipment- they have locations in Southern Penn., and are good to deal with. Delivery is no problem.

As earlier noted, R-4 tires, loaded, and preferably a SSQA loader, HST, and if you can find one with extra hydraulics, all the better. Cab would be great in the winter, no so great the rest of the year in the woods, but I don't think it's in your budget. For a while, I had a Kubota L3130, which was a fairly large CUT, very stable with loaded rear tires, and a large loader. With 31 HP, it wasn't a quick beast, but it got stuff done, and I liked it. Just too heavy at over 5000 lbs. to drive on lawns. It sold for just under $15,000, and although it had 1200 hours, it was in fine, clean shape and worked perfectly.

 

[docsfarm]

Thanks for the responses. I'm thinking my budget will need to be more flexible. We can work on that. As far as storage. There is a barn already on the property that I can park the tractor in and lock. Not temp or humidity controlled, but certainly out of the weather.

I have run tractors before, so geared doesn't bother me. I used to mow with a farmall cub when I was younger.

Trying to find that balance of not too big for the woods yet stable for the hills is the challenge.

I don't plan any cash crops. 25 of the 60 acres is in CREP which pays a little. But it is under contract for 9 more years. Food plots will take up some. There is other acreage too steep to do much with.

I think I'll go without a cab for the woods work. I can bundle up for winter.

Keep the comments coming.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

What kind of doc are you. It's relevant I promise.

 

[docsfarm]

Lol!!! A family doc!

 

[airbiscuit]

To misquote Dr. Seuss, "Oh the fun you'll have". You will get lots of good perspectives on this thread. I would start by going to dealerships and just start looking around. Sitting in the seat and driving around the lot will give you some idea what you like and what you don't like as far as size and features. It will also give you an idea if each dealership and/or salesperson is willing to invest time with you and talk straight, or if you are just a cash transaction to them. Warning, this will also get you in a spirited mood to buy!

I grew up on a farm with John Deeres from the 50's and 60's (gas and diesel). Off to college and career, and then a country home with a 1/2 mile driveway. A Farrmall H and a pony grader took care of that. The farm got select cut, and now there were 160 acres of trails to build and maintain. Hard to justify big bucks to the better half, so started on a budget - a grey market 15 hp Shibaura 1500SD AO with a 4' Kingkutter rough cut mower ($2,900). Amazed at how tough that tractor was - mowed hazelnut brush 8' high, and it barely sipped the fuel. Came across a 24hp John Deer 850 with a loader and 5' rough cutter for $6,000, so sold the Shibaura for what I paid for it even after years of use (love how compact utility tractors hold their value). Used that on the farm trails for years, and just sold it for $1,000 more than I paid for it and kept the rotary cutter.

By now, I caught the compact tractor bug. I bought a 21hp New Holland TC21 hydro with mid mount mower and loader to mo my mother's yard (farm), and I came across a 33hp New Holland hydro with loader for my own place. These newer compact tractors are amazing - smooth hydraulics, power steering, open platforms, smooth running diesels, etc. I thought I had my perfect tractor until ...... the BIG, HEAVY, WET snowstorm hit. I got it done with the 33hp New Holland with loader and rear mount snowblower, but a lot of tire spinning with the R4s and the deep snow.

A friend of mine wanted my tractor, and I found a 40hp New Holland 12x12 shuttle with loader and R1 ag tires. I have now found my perfect tractor (until the next one). Only 7 more hp, but the larger frame and tires mean everything as far as brute force. Night and day difference as far as what I can do with this tractor, and yet it is nearly as nimble as my 33 hp version. A long story to get to my thoughts on your tractor considerations:

40 - 55 hp larger frame tractor
Hydro or Shuttle? I like em both
Pre Tier IV engine (too many uncertainties for this large of an investment)
Extra hydraulic remotes (for grapple bucket, top & tilt, rear implements, etc.)
Extendable 3 point links (I no longer consider this a luxury)
A good dealer for parts and service
John Deere, Kioti, Kubota, Mahindra, Massey Ferguson, or New Holland (in alphabetical order)
Beet juice in the tires

I sure like my R1 ag tires, but R4s would be okay too. Add some LED work lights, a tool box and chain carrier and you will be good to go. Recognize that you are about to begin journey that others may not understand ...

 

[TractorGuy]

Be careful in the woods with an open ROPS. Been knocked in the head more times than I want to repeat. Finally got all my trees cut so looking for a cab here but not sure it's justified with our mild weather. AC would be awesome in the summer though.

With that much property I would definitely look for 40+ HP or larger if you can.

 

[airbiscuit]

Here are some good links for reference as you start to research choices:

Tractor Specifications
TractorData.com - Farm tractors

Prices
TractorHouse.com | Used Tractors For Sale: John Deere, Case IH, New Holland, Kubota.

Reviews
Tractor Guide - TractorByNet.com

 

[Skyfish25]

I personally think you want a little bigger. In the Massey line, the smallest 4600(4608) or the bigger of the 2700? Don't need to get a Massey, but that is the size I think you will like. I personally don't like filling tires.

 

[jenkinsph]

I suggest you get a small used tractor open station for the woods work preferably with a four post fops. Around 25 to 30 hp or so, something decent but used enough you don't mind taking it into the woods. Budget about $10,000 or so. May have to fabricate some protective side screens or limb risers to it.

After operating the woods tractor you can then decide whether a larger tractor is needed. You can buy a new larger cab tractor for winter and field work and size it to the implements you want. No need to beat up a new tractor in the woods.

 

[gladehound]

Another thought. For your hills, the MF 26xx series seems to have a lower center of gravity than most large CUTs or UTs. Although marketed as UTs, they are on the small size for a UT and could be a nice compromise between enough size to get things done and nimble enough to get where you want to go. They are also priced not much above your initial budget target. I strongly considered this series and wouldn't have hesitated if the right deal presented itself.

If you do spend a good amount of time in the woods, you might want to build some sort of FOPS or cage. At this point, with two little girls that still want a Daddy, I wouldn't play in woods without one!

 

[Msamt]

Congrats on the land, sounds like something I'm always on the lookout for, but my 10 acres keeps me busy as it is. I started looking smaller for my purchase and ended up going bigger, so the adage of buying the next size up worked for me. Weight is your friend in most tractor usage scenarios, but balancing it with maneuverability can be a challenge at times. I'm partial to my Kioti DK45, mainly due to its control layout, but i dont think you can go wrong with any of the machines out there. What most say about an HST machine for loader work is dead on, and as for maneuvering in tight spaces, it is invaluable (in my opinion).
Good luck and welcome!

 

[GManBart]

This is one of those topics that comes up regularly, and it's really hard to answer appropriately because there are always so many variables. In general, it sounds like the minimum for what you're going to be doing is something in the 40-50hp CUT range, but based upon some of your tasks, a Utility machine might be better, or at least faster. One positive of going with a machine that size is that if you decide to go larger/smaller at a later date, there's always a good market for good machines that size.

If you buy something like a large CUT now, you may later decided that you need something bigger (unlikely smaller), or that you also want/need is a skid steer/compact track loader, or a loader/backhoe, etc, but you'll be able to get by as you're learning what your needs are. I've used a large CUT in tight woods and it really wasn't a problem and the added ground clearance over a smaller machine was a plus. There were a number of times I know a smaller machine would have gotten stuck and needed to be dragged out.

As far as mowing, if you're talking about field mowing 2.5 acres (with a brush hog or flail mower), that's one thing. If you're talking about 2.5 acres of lawn around the house, it's another. For 2.5 acres around the house, get a dedicated zero turn mower....much faster, and a better cut that you'll get using a tractor with a belly mower/finish mower.

Since you mentioned New Holland, I'd point out that they aren't making their own small tractors any longer (for years actually). You can buy the exact same tractor from LS for thousands less. For example, a Boomer 41 is nothing more than an LS XR4040 with different decals, grill/headlights, and a different FEL (LS uses their own FEL). Most of the things that are standard on the LS come as options on the Boomer (like rear remotes) and if you get a quote for an equally-optioned NH and compare it to an LS, the price difference is often as much at $10K....for the same machine. I bought an LS R4047H in late 2012 and paid $21,500 for it. The local NH dealer quoted $31K for the same configuration.

 

[newbury]

So, we finally closed on our property. 197 acres in north-central PA. About 60 acres is field the rest is woods. 25+ acres is in the CREP program and will need the associated maintenance. I would like to plant a few food plots for deer, etc. I will need to open and clear out old logging roads and keep them cleaned out. Once we build our house, we will have approximately 1/3 mile driveway to maintain (stone, smooth and snow removal, etc..) And, about 2.5 acres to mow (minus whatever would go into garden). And of course any other projects I stumble into!! <snip>

I know you didn't ask but:
Unless you have servants and sheep shorten the driveway and decrease the acres to mow. W/ 200 acres you will start stumbling into projects every time you or the other part of "we" sleep.

You are pretty spot on for tractor size, so think attachments that may be bundled with a used tractor.
For your uses pallet forks, grapple, rotary cutter, disc, off road trailer come to mind.

Try to get a tractor that will lift at least a ton on the 3pt.

Make sure it is SSQA compatible and switching between FEL, pallet forks, grapple will be easier.

The military is excessing a lot of trailers:Search Results
and you should be able to get a good used M105 for less than $1,000.

And take pictures. This forum thrives on pictures.