Question about trailer with steering?

[Sodo]

Is there an easy way to configure a steerable trailer that has a front axle with steering knuckles and tie-rod? If anyone knows of pics on the net that I can look at this, please tell me where. Not interested in examples where the whole axle pivots (like a kids wagon).

Can the steering be controlled by the drawbar, or does it just "follow" like a car on a towbar? Seems to me following will work, but can you maneuver if you back it?

This project is for moving shipping containers around off-road. Not to be road-legal. Here is an example trailer pic (of steering axle) that I found searching "trailer with front steering" but it appears to be simply passive steering.

Again, this is not my pic, it's one I found on the internet to discuss 'trailer steering'. There are other options but just wondering about the feasibility of front steering.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Every hay wagon I have ever seen has what you are describing.

 

[Sodo]

OK thanks, "Hay wagon steering" gets some decent pics.

Seems like if the mechanism keeps the wheels parallel with the drawbar it ought to work. I could imagine this can get you into trouble backing. You can't let the truck get too far out of alignment with the drawbar. I have a backup camera that can help with this.

 

[blueriver]

hay wagons, gravity flow wagons, grain carts ... maybe search farm wagons.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I would get an old hay wagon with the adjustable center tube to adjust the wagon length. Then I'd make what ever type of bed you need to move your containers around. Do you have a way to pick them up off the ground? My neighbor had an old hearse chassis that was converted into a hay wagon and iirc the tie rods were just attached to the tongue for steering. If you have never done it before, backing up a hay wagon is a notable feat. I just chuckle when the super truckers on here complain about backing up a GN when the real challenge is a wagon with a tongue. I never did master it but split brakes and 2wd make things ALOT easier. Trying to back them up hill is even more fun.

 

[DT86]

For backing, if at all possible you want to push with the front of your tractor.

 

[motownbrowne]

hay wagons, gravity flow wagons, grain carts ... maybe search farm wagons.

Add "running gear" to your search list. The running gear is the axles, frame and drawbar that go under hay wagons, gravity wagons, chopper boxes, etc. Around here they start around $400. Can't go very fast down the road, maybe 25 mph tops with good tires and tight steering. Forget backing it up with a truck. Well, maybe you know something I don't about backing up a trailer, but DT is right about hitching the tongue to the front of your vehicle and pushing them in reverse. Even this is difficult. They are handy items to have on the farm, though.

 

[blueriver]

Add "running gear" to your search list. The running gear is the axles, frame and drawbar that go under hay wagons, gravity wagons, chopper boxes, etc. Around here they start around $400. Can't go very fast down the road, maybe 25 mph tops with good tires and tight steering. Forget backing it up with a truck. Well, maybe you know something I don't about backing up a trailer, but DT is right about hitching the tongue to the front of your vehicle and pushing them in reverse. Even this is difficult. They are handy items to have on the farm, though.

Yep running gear ... they easy to back up, just always have go the opposite of any other trailer

 

[bcp]

I wonder how hard or easy it is to back up the 4 wheel steer wagons.

Bruce

 

[KennyG]

I wonder how hard or easy it is to back up the 4 wheel steer wagons.

Bruce

As noted, it works opposite a non steering trailer. It takes a light touch and careful planning because it will jackknife much quicker. Back in the old days on the farm everyone "knew" how to back one up but would go to extremes to avoid having to actually do it. If I never have to back up another one it will be too soon.

 

[zzvyb6]

You can learn to back up a trailer with wagon steering with a little practice. It's quite common for a user on a farm tractor pulling a hay baler with an attached kick wagon to back up the wagon while the train is still coupled together. Keep your speed low and eyes on the wagon.

 

[airbiscuit]

Back in the old days on the farm everyone "knew" how to back one up but would go to extremes to avoid having to actually do it. If I never have to back up another one it will be too soon.[/QUOTE]

TRUE THAT!

 

[oosik]

View attachment 451802About 8 years ago I built a ten ton "farm wagon" with front wheel steering. I used HORST running gear. And every time I use this wagon I go to extremes to plan out the total trip so I DO NOT have to back it up. It is a real PITA to back up. I'm sure if I used it every day - sooner or later - I would develop the skill set needed to gracefully back it up.

View attachment 451801 View attachment 451803

 

[square1]

Search for header carts. They're typically longer than a standard running gear. They often go pretty cheap at auctions.

 

[CobyRupert]

Backing up a 4 wheeled wagon (running gear) isn't that difficult. Although initiating a reverse turn is very different than a two wheel trailer, the same concept of imagining/focusing/directing which direction the tongue needs to move (i.e. which direction your bumper/drawbar needs to move) in order for the tow vehicle to go in the direction you want is the same. That is, imagine if you were pushing the tongue by hand.

The real tricky feat is backing up a (4 wheel) wagon that's hooked behind a 2 wheel baler that's being towed by a tractor. You now have to focus/direct which direction the rear of the baler is moving. It's like a double-reverse-pivot with a half twist. A real head fart that can hurt your brain if you think about it too much. In fact it's better when you DON'T think about it. (You can pretty much only back up straight for a rig length (or two if you're really good), but I've never seen anyone who could turn.

 

[CobyRupert]

The maximum angle you can turn ("crank") the tongue /front wheels on running gear varies from model to model and will determine how tight you can turn. There's usually some type of "stop" that prevents the tongue from pivoting past a certain angle. Once the tongue/tie-rods/wheels have hit the stops and you try to turn tighter your now just skidding the front tires sideways.
My old (1950's era?) running gear "log hauler" (with mismatched tire sizes) must of been turned too tight a few times with a heavy load on it by the previous owners because now when I driving "straight" with it the tongue is at a 20- 30 degree angle. This makes it really interesting when backing because "straight" is really 20-30 degrees offset.
-But remarkably it will go down the road at 50mph+ and not sway!!!

 

[Sodo]

Well I bought some "running gear". A straight axle, and one with steering, on a pintle-hook drawbar.

These axles came off a "kit", a military device was used to move military communications pods (eqpt housed in 20-foot ocean containers). It had everything. It could pick up an ocean container off the ground. Each axle had a jack, and air actuated hydraulic brakes. Even has a cable operated handbrake which is still there. The guy had the complete "container moving kit" for years. Nobody wanted to buy it so he cut off all the container hookups, jacks because he thought maybe someone would be interested in just the running gear.

Craigslist $200.

Well at least the axles came with 5 great LT tires that will fit my Willys (which has a mishmash of tires). If the rims bolt up, even better! Cory I like that log trailer. I have a LOT of log skidding to do, and I don't want to beat up the driveway. Also some logs I want to saw, and prefer they aren't in the dirt. I'll probably make one like yours (running the OLD Willys wheels). And hopefully with a handbrake.

Then this morning I see this video:

And I'm thinking, I already have a 12,000 lb winch, and a car trailer, I can do that ( I think). And using 10" logs as rollers - this maybe easier than creating all the hookups to the axle running gear. Well anyway a guy likes to have options!

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Great score sodo. I wouldn't get to excited about the winch truck. Those are atleast 50 ton winches. We used them all the time for setting up the rigs and iirc they used 1 1/8" rope. I have seen them break as well. They also have a very robust tail roller to help things up over the back end. I'd be pretty nervous trying this with a trailer since they don't have any weight on the front axle empty, it would be nothing to see that winch truck with the front axles 4 foot off the ground with that big cat under the hood.

 

[ovrszd]

Yep running gear ... they easy to back up, just always have go the opposite of any other trailer

Yep. Been backing them since I was 7 years old. As a kid would enter the local Young Farmer's contests and win trophies for backing 4 wheel wagons into difficult spots.

 

[Sodo]

Rather than try to win any awards, if I had to reverse it I'd use the receiver on my front bumper.

Here's what the M721 Dolly looked like at the auction yard. Complete unit, they connect together as a towable unit. They separate into two units, each one hooks onto one end of the container and it has the jacks to lift the container off the ground. Hard to imagine with all the containers for sale these are not coveted.

This one went for $200 on Oct15, 2015. ALMOST wish I had the uncut version. Except then I wouldn't have a log trailer in the works, or tires for my Willys.

RNR Don't you think dragging a 5,000lb container up onto a 5700lb capacity trailer, with a 12,000lb winch "seems feasible"?I already have the winch and the car trailer. I'd put blocks under the rear of the trailer so it doesn't lift the truck.