Is 50 HP really 50 HP?

   / Is 50 HP really 50 HP? #61  
Im not. I am saying HP is HP.

It dont matter weather the 50HP comes from actual horses, the power grid, crude, or a fire. They are all capable of the exact same thing. Thats 27,500 ft-lbs per second.
 
   / Is 50 HP really 50 HP? #62  
If you have 4 engines that all make 10HP, a gas, a diesel, a steam, and an electric, They are all capable of doing the exact same amount of work in the exact same amount of time.
That is not necessarily true. When you see a gasoline turbocharged engine on a Dino making some ridiculous hp rating how long can that engine maintain that hp rating? A shop vac can produce 6 hp, but not in real world conditions or for very long.
 
   / Is 50 HP really 50 HP? #63  
That is not necessarily true. When you see a gasoline turbocharged engine on a Dino making some ridiculous hp rating how long can that engine maintain that hp rating? A shop vac can produce 6 hp, but not in real world conditions or for very long.

I never mentioned how long that power could be sustained.

Sure, in the real world it might not last long, but while it does last, it is capable of the same amount of work as any other engine making the same HP.

Aside from engines that are governed (like in our tractors), I dont think there are many internal combustion engines that can make rated power for extended periods. Dont have to be a super high power turbocharged gasser. My saturn 1.9L is rated at 100HP. I dont think it would last long making that power. Similar displacement engine that is governed and rated for a given HP that it can sustain for the life of the engine would only be rated ~30-40HP
 
   / Is 50 HP really 50 HP? #64  
OK I will admit that I know little about small series wound AC motors, do they behave Like small DC motors?

Then it is impossible that a shop vac can produce more than 1500- 1800 wattts of power?
~ ... Sorta yes. From what I have been able to pick up and make sense of over a lifetime of experience, listening and reading, the series wound motor characteristic cant be lumped with other electric motors without a hard look.

,,,My 1st exposure came from Dad telling me that a starter motor was a series wound motor and should not be run without load because there was nothing to limit its speed and the rotor could explode. We watched the motor kick hard when connected - and then rev up to high speed. You could hear tho that the speed was still increasing slowly. Dad said that in real life there actually was a load - the bearings and air resistance inside the motor. To a little kid this made enuf sense. Iv always marveled at those concise points he made. The deeper issues I learned later never sullied their accuracy.

The key to its characteristic is that the series wound motor has rotor windings/coils and field coils in series and thus the same amount of current flows in each. When the motor is stationary the low resistance of the copper coils allows a huge inrush current to flow. The rotor and field are strong and maximum torque is produced. Great for starting a reluctant load.

,,,As the motor accelerates a back EMF develops causing current to drop. Magnetics of the rotor and field are weaker and torque drops. This effect continues as rpm increases. Motor and load torque come into balance at some point and thats the operating RPM. The setup will slow down to a new balance point if more torque is needed by the load. As an aside: it happens that while a strong field enables torque, a weak field enables speed. -- A DC permanent magnet motor speed limits due to its always very strong field and is more speed stable under load for the same reason. ... The universal motor demonstrates this as well, but must slow to get its stronger field. On the other side, the series wound U motor , speeding up, gets weaker while at the same time loses the field strength that would naturally suppress its speed. Even with this "weakening " the condition of NO load will result in steadily increasing speed. Both DC and Universal motors require adaptive control to stabilize speed well.

An AC induction motor speed is governed by the frequency of the power; for 60HZ - 60 rps -- 3600 rpm, or even numbered sub multiples. Torque rises steeply as the motor drops below frequency lock. Nominal HP may be produced around 3% slip - ~ 3500rpm ... Maybe double that HP at 3400rpm / 6%slip. Torque continues to rise even more as it slows til it finally breaks down and speed plummets. Im not sure where that occurs. Maybe about 10% slip. :confused3:

The characteristic efficiency of U motors is low -- ~30% vs 70% for an induction motor. When you add that into the mix it tends to underscore the handicap a universal motor has in producing more power as it slows. ... The U motor will consume the watts but wont give them back as mechanical HP.
 
   / Is 50 HP really 50 HP? #65  
Im not. I am saying HP is HP.

It dont matter weather the 50HP comes from actual horses, the power grid, crude, or a fire. They are all capable of the exact same thing. Thats 27,500 ft-lbs per second.

Not sure who you are answering but I agree with you.
 
   / Is 50 HP really 50 HP? #66  
Not sure who you are answering but I agree with you.

My take on it is [torque (in ft x lbs force) x rpm]/5252 which is a simplification of what mr Harry noted in his narrative equation on page 6 of this topic. Course the biggie in this whole thing is where are you measuring the hp and under what conditions, like net "brake" hp under STP (room temp at sea level average humidity) or locked rotor like they measure electrical motors (that the average joe buys) now a days.
 
   / Is 50 HP really 50 HP? #67  
Any electric motor that is rated for continues duty can produce its rated hp continues, right?
 
   / Is 50 HP really 50 HP? #68  
Any electric motor that is rated for continues duty can produce its rated hp continues, right?
I'd say yes, but only if it's supplied with its rated voltage (or greater within tolerance) and at its rated rpm.
 
   / Is 50 HP really 50 HP? #69  
Just as a matter of interest:
Depending on the horse, a horse can peak at 25-45 Hp for a short time.
A human in very good shape can peak at about +2 hp. (Picture a Running back charging up a flight of stairs or a Viking rowing at "Ramming Speed!"
Flesh however is not rated for continuous service, as a healthy person is rated about a pathetic 1/10th hp.
 
   / Is 50 HP really 50 HP? #70  
Any electric motor that is rated for continues duty can produce its rated hp continues, right?

ONLY if the motor wasn't "over rated"" in the first place...

I ALWAYS look at the motor plate and I judge a motors power by how many amps it draws... At 120v, I use 10 amps per "honest" hp...

Motors have loss' in them, and my experience has shown me that a 1 hp motor, that pulls 10 amps has a pretty good 1 hp rating. Trouble is, you see 1 hp motors all over the board, some (read cheap) only pull 7 or 8 amps! The BEST ones pull 12 amps! (a 2 hp will pull 20 amps ect., and 240v will pull half as it pulls off 2 legs)

Using amps, let's you get the best "honest" comparison between common motors...

SR
 

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