Backhoe L3200 with BH77 weak and leaks down

[USCG1]

Have a 2014 L3200 tractor with less 200 hours and a BH77 that maybe has 5-7 hours on it. When I ordered the backhoe 8 month ago from the Kubota dealer I was told that the l3200 and BH77 with a 16 inch bucket worked very well together. I told the dealer I would be using it to dig out smaller pine tree stumps maybe any where from 4-16 inches. If the roots are more than 1 maybe 1 1/2 inches I can forget about pulling it out of the ground. I had a small tree maybe 4-5 inches at base and it took me over a 1/2 hour to dig it out. If I'm digging plan dirt with no roots it does ok but that all it will do. Then to top it off If I let it set for 1-2 hours the boom will fall to the ground it leaks down bad. I have taken it back twice but now there telling me that the L3200 and BH77 is not made for digging up roots at all. I love my L3200 tractor but the BH77 was the biggest waste of $8,799.00. Has anyone else had this problem? Thanks Todd

 

[boggen]

i don't know anything about your tractor or backhoe. just rambling some stuff out that comes to mind to check.

does BH leak down while running? or after tractor has been shut off. being shut off is not really a big deal. but leaking down 1 to 2 hours? how high is the backhoe (boom, dipstick, bucket) before turning tractor off?

the FEL (front end loader), BH (backhoe) and the out riggers (legs that extend out) should all be able to lift the tractor up tractor in the air. the backhoe may need to be brought in rather close for the bucket, boom, dipstick to lift rear end of tractor. ((be careful))

another issue. with any hydraulics, is the "quick connects", some times the quick connects do not seat properly and you simply undo the quick disconnect (act like you taking off backhoe) and then re-connect the hoses/quick disconnects.

another issue, it might be possible that the "pressure relief valves" are set to low of a pressure, and you are hitting pressure reliefs before getting full use out of machine.

to note it, it is generally suggested a 3pt hitch backhoe (should have a subframe) you risk splitting tractor in half without a subframe for the backhoe. along with damaging the 3pt hitch all together, without a subframe.

with you stating 5 to 7 hours. i am wondering if you have fully extended, and fully contracted all the hydraulic cylinders on the backhoe a few times. fully extend and fully contracting each cylinder = removing air from the cylinders and getting hyd oil in them. with this being new, this may not have been done or skipped at dealer. ((double check hyd oil level)) to make sure you do not run low on it, while doing above.

pending on make/model and backhoe attached to tractor. it might be suggested to run at a certain RPM. to keep wanted GPM up. it is also possible make/model of tractor only produces say max 2000 PSI for hyd oil pressure. and the backhoe can handle up to say 3000 PSI pressure. if this is case, a hyd PTO pump might be suggested.

 

[USCG1]

Bogged, no it only leaks down after tractor is turned off, I can live with this I guess. I'm still not happy about the power of the backhoe, I know it's a smaller hoe but not being able to rip a 1 inch root that doesn't seem right. I just my biggest complaint is with the poor dealer support and being lied to before I purchased the backhoe and now.

 

[redman135]

Hello uscg1, just a suggestion, instead of using a bucket to dig stumps out use a "pick". It is a single shank ripper that goes on a digger/backhoe and you will be amazed at the ripping power. 1 tooth vs 4 on a bucket means much greater breakout force and a side effect on stumps is the holes to fill in are much smaller. You can also split trees to big for your chainsaw too.

 

[bikerdib]

Can't comment about the leakdown because I always lower an implement to tbe ground or lock it in transport position for safety reasons whenever leaving the tractor. Many years ago I saw the results of not doing so. At a construction site a backhoe was left in the raised position, stinger extended during lunch. One worker decided to hide under the backhoe to be in the shade. Someone else acidentally hit the boom lever dropping the bucket teeth right into the forehead of the one under it. Pretty nasty scene.

As to digging out stumps, the 16 inch bucket was not a good choice. You probably should invest in a ripper tooth. I recently got a Bro-Tek ripper tooth. At first when I received it, I wasn't too impressed because I could have fabbed similar or better for less money. But after using it to remove some trees, I like it and wouldn't be without one. One final tip, don't try to break the roots right at the base of the stump, move the bucket out some. If you work too close to the base you are pulling too much against the stump instead of a single root. That's another advantage of the ripper, you can get in there and work one one root at a time. Good luck.

 

[Tompet]

I have the same BH (16"bucket) you should be able to rip 2" roots with ease. The bucket curl function has the most power. Their should be a one or two year warranty on it. It should be strong enough to throw the tractor around if you are not careful.

As far as the boom dropping after a couple of hours, that is what the retaining arm/transport latch is for when you are done using the BH. That is a lot of weight pulling on that cylinder. When I'm done with mine I also put a strap across the outriggers to keep pressure off those cylinders leaking down over time.

Unfortunately you have to be persistent with the dealer, get a Kubota rep involved and possibly contact another dealer for warranty service. Get a service schematic and make sure it is plumbed correctly.

How does it perform just digging a trench in dirt? That would also tell the tale. The dealer telling you they are not stump machines is correct and that is an easy way out for them. However, they make make two smaller model BH's that are referenced by members digging out stumps quite often. I know and had one from Kubota and one a Massey scut. Btw, the Massey scut BH was very impressive for the size and capability.

If digging a simple trench also a problem have the dealer dig a trench while you watch.

 

[Grandad4]

Have a 2014 L3200 tractor with less 200 hours and a BH77 that maybe has 5-7 hours on it. When I ordered the backhoe 8 month ago from the Kubota dealer I was told that the l3200 and BH77 with a 16 inch bucket worked very well together. I told the dealer I would be using it to dig out smaller pine tree stumps maybe any where from 4-16 inches. If the roots are more than 1 maybe 1 1/2 inches I can forget about pulling it out of the ground. I had a small tree maybe 4-5 inches at base and it took me over a 1/2 hour to dig it out. If I'm digging plan dirt with no roots it does ok but that all it will do. Then to top it off If I let it set for 1-2 hours the boom will fall to the ground it leaks down bad. I have taken it back twice but now there telling me that the L3200 and BH77 is not made for digging up roots at all. I love my L3200 tractor but the BH77 was the biggest waste of $8,799.00. Has anyone else had this problem? Thanks Todd

Don't want to be critical, but there is some technique involved in grubbing stumps with a small backhoe. A 1 1/2" root can have a strength in tension of several thousand pounds. So if you're just pulling on the stump with the bh, there's generally not enough power to break the roots lengthwise and just rip the stump from the ground the way large excavators do. All is not lost, though, because with practice and patience you'll get pretty good at CUTTING the roots all around the stump with the bh BEFORE trying to yank the thing out of the ground.

Friendly advice from someone who has been there and done that: if you've only used it for 8 hours, you're just beginning the learning curve and need to spend a fair number more hours building up your own skill. Grubbing stumps with the bh isn't fast, but with skill it can be done and it beats all heck out of a spade and hatchet.

 

[bikerdib]

One final note, it is true that a backhoe isn't really intended to be used to break out stumps even though they are commonly used to do so in the real world. And like I said, the 16 inch bucket makes matters even worse. Look at it like this, you are trying to cut a loaf of bread, you have a spatula. Would you use the flat of the spatula or the edge? The edge concentrates all the cuttin/breaking force in one small area. IMO, a ripper tooth is actually easier on the equipment for that reason.

 

[Speedex]

I have the same setup only with a 12" bucket. I've only dug out a dozen or so stumps only up to about 4 to 6 inches and some are walnut trees and mine had a tough time getting the stumps out without really taking the time to rip up all the roots, even some of the small roots would stop the hoe dead. Back in the woods where I have been cutting crab apple trees I left all the stumps at least 18" tall and I don't have to dig any roots and I have pulled bigger stumps out than those walnut trees. I was concerned my tractor didn't have enough power until I spent a bit more time on it and realized the soil and type of tree makes a huge difference. My outriggers will settle a couple inches over a day or two but I always have the boom locked up so I can't comment on that.

 

[FatTire]

Especially if its cold out at night some drooping is normal, but for my machine (BH92) it takes days, not hours. Last year I had a leak between valves in the BH control module and then I had much faster sag. Also the digging power was slightly reduced, I guess the leak limited the peak hydraulic pressure. Do you find any hydraulic fluid after you work the BH hard? Maybe on the BH deck? Also I assume you working the BH at max RPM?

 

[USCG1]

Hello uscg1, just a suggestion, instead of using a bucket to dig stumps out use a "pick". It is a single shank ripper that goes on a digger/backhoe and you will be amazed at the ripping power. 1 tooth vs 4 on a bucket means much greater breakout force and a side effect on stumps is the holes to fill in are much smaller. You can also split trees to big for your chainsaw too.

redman135 thanks I been looking a one just hated to spend 649.00 plus freight if it didn't work.

 

[USCG1]

Can't comment about the leakdown because I always lower an implement to tbe ground or lock it in transport position for safety reasons whenever leaving the tractor. Many years ago I saw the results of not doing so. At a construction site a backhoe was left in the raised position, stinger extended during lunch. One worker decided to hide under the backhoe to be in the shade. Someone else acidentally hit the boom lever dropping the bucket teeth right into the forehead of the one under it. Pretty nasty scene. As to digging out stumps, the 16 inch bucket was not a good choice. You probably should invest in a ripper tooth. I recently got a Bro-Tek ripper tooth. At first when I received it, I wasn't too impressed because I could have fabbed similar or better for less money. But after using it to remove some trees, I like it and wouldn't be without one. One final tip, don't try to break the roots right at the base of the stump, move the bucket out some. If you work too close to the base you are pulling too much against the stump instead of a single root. That's another advantage of the ripper, you can get in there and work one one root at a time. Good luck.

biker dig thanks, I do lock the boom, it's where I roll the bucket up with the bucket teeth up and when I come back the teeth will be dropping down to the down.

 

[nspec]

I'm a stump guy with a b2630 and bh75. I will second what the others have said... With stumps and roots it's all about technique. Work out along the root farther away from the trunk of the tree. Loosen up all arond the trunk about 3 ft out, then you can start popping roots. A stump will loosen far easier if you twist it back andforth also rather than just trying to manhandle it out. These are small, light machines, but they are plenty capable. You have to work smarter with a lot more finesse than on a full size machine to get serious work done. That backhoe is plenty strong. Bucket curl function strongest. I think you may be underestimating the strength of a 1 inch pine tree root.

 

[bikerdib]

The Bro-Tek ripper for the BH77 is $390. Shipping was $40 and I got both the ripper and trencher attachment. Shipping on just the ripper may be less. Bro-Tek rippers have been discussed here on the forum and everyone seems happy with theirs.

 

[boggen]

little change in direction of thread....

when you cut the tree down.... leave a few feet up off the ground. so you can use your FEL or backhoe. to press up against higher on the stump. (get more lever action) to help push / pull stump over.

other words instead of crouching down, about ready to split your jeans getting a good footing before you cut, when you goto cut the tree. stand up straight. and cut the stump some were higher say, some were between your waste and shoulders.

you can always come back and cut the stump down more at later date if having problems.

==========
with others... digging up around stump a bit further out and breaking up the small roots can be a plus. you are not drilling the tree stump out. but rather talking a half sphere / ball cut in half of a root mass under ground out. those tree roots really do spread out pretty good in the soil. and instead of just lifting the tree / root out, you end up having to fight against a truck load plus of soil / ground as well that is being held tightly by all the roots.

 

[USCG1]

I'm thinking about the MIE root ripper don't like the way the BroTek looks does anyone here know much about the MIE?

 

[Tompet]

I'm thinking about the MIE root ripper don't like the way the BroTek looks does anyone here know much about the MIE?

I had the same take and went with the MIE. It is pricier, but I think the bro-tek would work as well. You would almost have to have both to do a fair comparison. What I would find interesting is the difference in real world use with the different departure angle of the two. The MIE is almost exactly the same radius to tooth of my BH bucket, while the bro-tek was straighter with a sharper angle to the tooth. In real world use.....they both work.

I was going to ask bikerdib how he liked switching out bucket for ripper. I need a qa for the BH77! Kind of a pain.

Anyway, I liked the built in "hood" on the MIE for possible trenching. It is heavy duty no doubt.

I really bought it to clean up a city lot property I have to take care of with a lot of tight areas to pull up small old stumps and odd posts etc. I figured it would pay for itself with the one job.

 

[LD1]

If its just the bucket drifting down, its in the valve. Leaking by a bit. I wouldnt worry about it. Infact, put the backhoe on the ground before shutting it off.

What kind of stumps are they. Different wood species are different. But if you expect to just yank through a 2" root and dirt like it aint there with a 16"" bucket you have the wrong machine.

I have a 18000# backhoe and tons more power AND a ripper. It can struggle with 4-5" roots. You have a small machine and a backhoe "attachment". Better than a shovel but I think you may be expecting too much.

Practice and technique. You will get the hang of it.

 

[bikerdib]

Swapping the bucket for the ripper isn't too bad. I lower the boom and extend the stinger to put the bucket about 8 inches above the concrete floor with the bucket curled so I can wheel a floor jack under it. Shut off the tractor and use the floor jack to take weight/pressure off the bucket pins. Install is also done with the floor jack. The floor jack allows you to tell when the weight is removed from the 2 pins.

As to the Bro-Tek ripper; I have to admit that when I first got it I was a little disappointed. I agree the MIE ripper looks more substantial but is it worth the extra $$ for a small backhoe, you have to make that call. Looking back, I could have fabricated something better but unlike some, I do have that ability and a pretty well equipped workshop. But after using it, I decided the Bro-Tek ripper should be able to take anything my tractor and BH77 will be able to throw at it.

 

[Tompet]

Swapping the bucket for the ripper isn't too bad. I lower the boom and extend the stinger to put the bucket about 8 inches above the concrete floor with the bucket curled so I can wheel a floor jack under it. Shut off the tractor and use the floor jack to take weight/pressure off the bucket pins. Install is also done with the floor jack. The floor jack allows you to tell when the weight is removed from the 2 pins.

Great tip Bikerdib....thanks. Btw, though apparently only available for the BX series, BH bxpanded who makes the Pirhana tooth bar makes what looks to be a nicely designed ripper.