LS backhoe questions. please post pics of subframe mount.

[Jesse Shoemaker]

 

[Jesse Shoemaker]

 

[Jesse Shoemaker]

Notice the notches. This is what had to be cut out to fit the nee mount on my older 3039

 

[hutchman]

Excellent! Thanks Jesse! That pretty much matches a drawing that I found or someone sent me when I first started trying to figure out what to do since sub frames weren't available:

 

[dfkrug]

That pretty much matches a drawing that I found or someone sent me when I first started trying
to figure out what to do since sub frames weren't available:

View attachment 437779

I like how substantial that frame looks. I hope that a fixed toplink is also used....you can see the dotted-line
toplink hole on the hoe in this drawing.

Some dealers who sell factory subframes like this neglect to provide a rigid toplink, and some even tell
the buyer that it is not needed or not advised. !! Kioti comes to mind.

 

[hutchman]

I've also considered a hybird setup ... a ladder frame like what Jesse posted but shorter (would not have the backhoe bolted to it) and it would always stays attached to tractor and the 4 point cradle part (the orange thing in my drawing) would mount to the ladder frame that runs just inside of the FEL frame mounts.

I would hold the ladder frame in the back by the 6 bolts around the PTO shaft and would also extend it on each side out to the bottom of the ROPs mount which would take the weight of the 4 point cradle.

Should be uber strong with 2x2 FEL mounts + 2x6 backhoe mounts running from front to back of the tractor!

 

[George2615]

Since my original post to this thread I purchased a used Woods BH750-3 with a sub frame.
Here's a link to my install. Mine is a 5 point hook up. 4 for the sub frame plus a top link.
Maybe you can get some ideas from mine or feel free to ask questions.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...328190-woods-bh-750-3-backhoe.html?highlight=

 

[hutchman]

Since my original post to this thread I purchased a used Woods BH750-3 with a sub frame.
Here's a link to my install. Mine is a 5 point hook up. 4 for the sub frame plus a top link.
Maybe you can get some ideas from mine or feel free to ask questions.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...328190-woods-bh-750-3-backhoe.html?highlight=

That's awesome! I don't know how I missed that ... I didn't know you did it but did notice the yellow backhoe in your avitar pic.

 

[hutchman]

My Subframe build

Deconstruction has begun!



To implement my design, some of the FEL components have to come off and be modified for the backhoe subframe mount I'm building. So while doing that, I decided to address an issue I was not 100% satisfied with. As some of you will remember, when I bought my used tractor I quickly discovered that I had a cracked frame and the radiator fan would hit on the shroud. LS replaced my frame and added the reinforcing kit for the FEL. I don't know at what point the fix for this problem was finalized so I'm not going to point any fingers but I believe the current fix is to add the reinforcing kit, tack weld it so everything lines up right, take the FEL mount back off and weld all the way around both sides of the reinforcing plate. Well, mine was just bolted on! No weld at all as you can see here:



I could see where the plate must of had a bit of wiggle room just bolted on as I see some scuffing where the plate made contact with the frame:



I've put on about 80hrs since the frame was fixed and I've been religious about torquing the FEL mount bolts every 10hrs or so and I can't stress enough how important this is ... they do get loose and if you don't catch it in time bad things will happen.

I tack welded the reinforcing plate with a deep burn of 6011. Now that I have the FEL mount off, I plan to prep the metal and do a 6011 root weld all the way around and back that up with some 7018 which should be a lot better than how it was before. I'm also going to chase the threads in the block with a tap and replace the bolts as I'm not sure that was done when the frame was repaired ... the threads are a bit rounded in spots (I know ... I'm probably being **** but I don't want to deal with this problem again). By the way, the FEL mount is a BIG chunk of metal:



Once I get the FEL mounts squared away then it is on to the backhoe mount!

 

[hutchman]

Today's progress. FEL reinforce plate welded

Today's progress. Reinforce plates welded and ready for paint!



One thing I noticed when I took off both FEL mounts ... they don't fit against frame in a neutral position. The end of FEL mount toward the front of the tractor (the very end of the reinforcing plate) is sprung out maybe 1/4". Scratching my head wondering how to get this beast in my shop press to bend it some so the very end through bolt doesn't have to pull the mount to the frame.

*Edit: Wow, I didn't have much hope at first my press was up to the task but I was able to wrestle it (with help) into my shop press and push on the 's' shaped part and nudge the edge so it's within a 1/16" of where it needs to be ... just trying to get it to where the torque on the bolt is holding the mount TO the frame instead of wasting a majority of the torque BENDING the mount against the frame. I don't want any wiggle!

 

[hutchman]

Looks like I need a detent kit for the remote. I hope this is the right one ... anyone install one of these:
'LS' Tractor 'Remote Outlet' Detent Kit: Keeps Outlet Pressurized w/o Straps, Etc

Speaking of remotes ... It looks like my rear remotes are 1/2" but the female quick disconnect end on the backhoe looks like 3/8". I've read in the past about heat issues ... should I just replace the backhoe hoses between the backhoe control valve to the tractor remote with 1/2" hose and fitting? Going from 1/2" to 3/8" restriction will bill up heat will it not?

 

[dfkrug]

Going from 1/2" to 3/8" restriction will bill up heat will it not?

Yeah, use 1/2" hoses and QDs for the supply and return. Since you plan to use the
AUX valve to power the hoe, it will also add restriction (and heat) to the oil. You
can reduce this by routing the OUT from the hoe directly into the tractor's tank somehow.
Some tractors have "extra" ports on the rear gearbox to do this, or you can return
oil thru the filler/vent neck.

 

[hutchman]

Yeah, use 1/2" hoses and QDs for the supply and return. Since you plan to use the
AUX valve to power the hoe, it will also add restriction (and heat) to the oil. You
can reduce this by routing the OUT from the hoe directly into the tractor's tank somehow.
Some tractors have "extra" ports on the rear gearbox to do this, or you can return
oil thru the filler/vent neck.

I may be OK. I just used a caliper and verified that the female end on the backhoe hose to the tractor is 3/8", they measured the same size as my FEL connections.

The main backhoe hose to the tractor measured .670" OD and the hoses on the cylinders of the backhoe measured just under .500. So now I'm thinking I might be able to just swap the 3/8" female end for a 1/2" one???

I could get my caliper on the outside threads of the backhoe hose and they measured .660".

 

[hutchman]

Not much progress tonight but some

Well, tonight I took off the drawbar mount around the PTO. Hey look, they slapped bare metal together and then just painted over it ... cool!



Took the drawbar mount off to use as a pattern to trace onto a 1/2" plate that will be cut out to make the rear of subframe mount. I decided to go with a hybird type mount (I'll post another crude paint drawing of it soon to explain) and this mount will hold the back of the 2x4 structural tubing.

Next, loaded up a M12 1.25 tap with black molly grease and chased the threads of the holes where I found the rounded threads. The grease was to both lube the tap and encourage crusty crud to stick to the grease to be drawn out with the tap. Next was a good healthy dose of brake cleaner!

 

[hutchman]

Intermission

Just a quick story about my Ansung backhoe buying experience. You guys like stories ... so I spent months on ebay, craigslist etc. getting familiar with what was out there and what things cost. I finally decided to get the Ansung and talked to several dealers that were far away from me (all were great by the way) but I happened to called Ansung to ask a question and they told me our local New Holland shop was an Ansung dealer and I didn't even realize it. So I called them and they beat everyone's price (sorry guys, I felt obligated to buy local).

So I go to pay for it and I mentioned that I had some concerns (something about flow specs if I remember right ... was trying to determine if I needed an external pump or if my tractor remotes were enough or something like that) and I had emailed and talked to Ansung on the phone and they answered my questions. The sales guy asked "Do you remember who you talked to?" Yea, I got it right here ... (pulled out my smart phone and looked up the email), some Steve Kim guy. "Whoa, the salesman said ... HE IS ANSUNG USA he said!". I was like what? He said yea, he is the President/CEO. He makes a point to go visit all the dealers and he drove up to our shop one day and strolled in and introduced himself and wanted to meet everyone!

I was pretty impressed.

 

[hutchman]

Plasma action

Dragged out the plasma cutter and cut up some 1/2" plate (A36). Started making new rear mount that goes around PTO. Also cut some 2x4 structural tube and the plates that will be used to mount the tubing.

 

[hutchman]

Backhoe rails tied into FEL cross member

I haven't posted a crude drawing of my hybird mount idea yet but basically the backhoe frame rails from the FEL cross member to the rear will look similar to the LS factory mount that is unobtainium but with a twist ... the portion under the tractor will be permanently mounted and support the 4 point backhoe mount on the rear of the tractor.

I cut a notch out of the 2x4 tube to mate with the FEL cross member that runs under the tractor between the FEL mounts. The forces from the backhoe will push up on this member and try to lift the front of the tractor spreading out the force.

Here's a picture while closing the ends with some 3/16". I used my small MIG with flux core for this since it wasn't structural ... everything else is 6011 & 7018 stick:


I welded 1/2" plate to the FEL cross member so I can fasten the rails to the FEL cross member with bolts. These 'ears' stick down about the same distance under the tractor as the FEL loader mount that connects to the ROPS/transaxle housing in the rear:


The backhoe rails in the front also have 'ears' to mate with the FEL cross member:


View of the modified FEL cross member sitting on the rails. In the side view you can see the two plates against one another. I had fun drilling bolt holes in that tonight:


Now I'm figuring out how I want to go about mounting the rails at the rear of the tractor ...

This is my first project with my plasma cutter so don't laugh too hard at my rough parts ... I've still trying to get my technique down. It's not the machine ... It's all me. When I was cutting 1/2" plate I kept tripping breakers and quickly learned 20Amps wasn't enough so I had to modify my extension cord to use the 30Amp dryer plug (which makes the wife real happy).

 

[hutchman]

Oh yea, I'm a sucker for trying new markers so I picked up this "Silver Streak" marker. It's like a drafting pencil but with silver lead:

 

[hutchman]

FEL cross member bolt holes finally drilled

Finally finished drilling 4 9/16" holes in basically 1" (or 8 1/2" holes) plate. I like drilling holes in thick metal about as much as I like painting windows. The is the bottom view of the mount ... pics probably aren't the best because I'm always working in the dark after work.


My first session trying to cut 1/2" plate didn't go so well since I kept tripping the breaker. Never noticed the problem cutting thinner stuff. Tonight I cut some more 1/2" plate to start making the brackets to mount my backhoe subframe to the ROPS/transaxle. Using the 30A circuit from the dryer was the key. Oh, and I used a straight edge (the cut on the right is from my last session that was free hand). I was pretty pleased with how my cuts turned out tonight:


... there has been no cleanup of the dross etc., ... that's just how she fell.

 

[hutchman]

Tractor side starting to take shape

Tractor side is starting to take shape.

Tack welded a cross member between the ROPS/transaxle mounts I made after I got it squared and lined up:


If I straddled objects between the FEL rails under the tractor I gained 4-5" of travel. With the cross member I lost that ability. The backhoe subframe hangs down 1" below the lowest point (where it connects to ROPS/transaxle) of the FEL mount:


... note the front FEL cross member is removed which hangs down the same amount.

I was kind of upset about losing clearance but not much I could do about it with the materials I bought to make the frame. One good thing is now if I hit something or get hung up it is on 'my' frame and not bolts under the tractor or hydraulic lines, valve body etc.

Tack welded the rest of the frame together while bolted up and then took it off and did all of the root welds. I had some gaps to fill in on ends of the tubing. I just finished a little while ago so I didn't clean it up or anything yet. Next, a few beads of 7018, make a template and cut out the 4 point cradle parts.

Here's the tractor side frame starting to take shape (right after finishing root welds):