Building the Retirement Place

[bobm6996]

Life has finally put the wife and I in a place where all the planets have aligned and we can build on the 15 acre retirement property we bought a couple years ago. I am 64 and plan to retire in Feb 2017 (this is my second retirement, retired from the Army after 26 yrs in 1994). This thread will probably span the next 12 months or so to capture and share our experience with the member community. I will post updates and pictures as often as I can and the work should start in the next month. Waiting on the final plats, which I pick up today and then at a high level here are the next steps:

Take the new plat survey maps to our attorney so he can create the new warranty deed. We have an old farmhouse on the property that is and will be rented going forward allowing us to build a new house on the property and our very low mortgage will be covered by the rent collected.

After the warranty deed is filed and recorded get septic permit, building permit for the house and horse barn and get a driveway permit for the new drive being added.

We are building a post frame (pole barn) home with a basement under part of it and crawlspace under the rest. Not going to get into much detail yet, but will share more soon on the design. House will be a 50 x 90 (or something close to that size) with 50 x 60 for the house and 30 x 50 for the garage, there will be dormers and partial upstairs. The basement will be approximately 30 x 40, we need to keep at least 10 feet of undisturbed soil around the perimeter for the posts. Walls will be 12 foot so we end up with 9 ft walls in the house and good height for the crawlspace. Basement will have 9 ft walls as well.

We will be putting up a 40 x 60 x 12 pole barn for the horses and two years ago we put up a 40 x 80 x 14 pole barn that we use to store the hay grown on the property and later on a shop will be added in one corner to it.

Wow, after reading this back maybe I should retire today, I have a ton of work to do.

First request (of many to come) for advice: any thoughts/suggestions/gottchas I need to consider before I have the basement started?

 

[MoKelly]

Congratulations and good luck. Sounds exciting.

MoKelly

 

[dave1949]

Congratulations!

I dunno. A basement inside a pole building is a new one on me. It sounds strange not to use the basement as part of the building foundation for a difference of 10' all around the house portion. You are paying for a foundation, may as well use it. Unless there is a really compelling reason to have to use one, I would avoid crawlspaces.

 

[EddieWalker]

Congratulations, sounds like exciting times ahead for you!!!!

Hard for me to imagine having to go through all that permitting and paperwork just to build on your land. The driveway one probably surprised me the most. Here in East Texas, there are no permits or rules on what you do on your land. Build what you want, how you want.

While I'm a huge fan of pole barns, I question the advantage of going with one for a building that will have a basement. Once you have the walls of the basement built, why not put the framing of the house on top of the basement walls? I'm also curious how the poles will affect the basement walls if they are close together or somehow connected to each other? Seems like trying to do both will result them being weaker then they would be if just one or the other system was used.

Eddie

 

[MacLawn]

Congratulations on ye second retirement! Now wait, wha'?!?!?! 50x90?? Wow! Let's see, 5x9=45, so that's 4,500 square feet house? Man bob, when can we move in?:laughing::laughing:

I agree with old Eddie (why not? he's a builder!) about the pole barn for house with basement part. Anyway, sounds like a plan bob!

 

[flusher]

Congratulations, sounds like exciting times ahead for you!!!!

Hard for me to imagine having to go through all that permitting and paperwork just to build on your land. The driveway one probably surprised me the most. Here in East Texas, there are no permits or rules on what you do on your land. Build what you want, how you want.

Eddie

That's all well and good until it comes time to sell the place. Then the buyer's lender sends out the appraiser and the building inspector and they find all the construction defects that you have to fix before the mortgage loan is approved and the escrow closes.

 

[lutt]

Way it is here too Eddie, never heard of so many permits or what have just to build a place or do what ya want with it, as I have heard in other places. If a feller buys a place, it should be his to do what he wants. Plain and simple! Too much government. But that's another topic! Congrats on your property purchase . I have never seen a pole barn with a basement, I have seen several pole barns with homes and apartments built in the back and the shop in the front! Getting popular around here. This will be interesting to follow. LUTT

 

[hcallaway]

The basement is my only question. It is a new one on me. Current temporary living quarters are in the pole barn garage I have sold to a friend. It is like a house in a shell. I think it heats and cools really well with high R values in ceiling and walls. I would have thought that a system like Superior precast walls would have been more cost efficient. I don't think a pole barn design with a basement would get approved. Good Luck I look forward to seeing progress. Also thanks for your service not only this Holiday but everyday.

 

[ultrarunner]

I could not be happier for you!

It is great when I hear years of planning are finally coming together... it gives hope to many of us.

Good luck...

 

[CurlyDave]

Congratulations of your upcoming retirement.

DW and I built our retirement home 7 or 8 years ago, and I designed most of it, including the complete layout

From our experience, I have some advice.

One of the things many people overlook in a retirement home is that you should design it to be able to stay in it for as long as possible, even if physical infirmities start to catch up with you. A lot of these things are uncomfortable to think about, but if you need these features sometime in the future, the need will come at a time when medical issues will have drained both your energy and finances. They are much more expensive to add later than to build in at the start.

1. We put a handicap ramp inside the attached oversize garage when we built. You will always be able to get into you car without going out into the weather and the outside appearance of the house is not changed.

2. Speaking of garages, our double garage door is 18' wide vs. the "standard" 16'. The extra space is very nice, and we all know our driving does not improve with age.

3. Every interior door is 36" wide. If, God forbid, you should ever need a wheelchair, this will accommodate.

4. Master bath has a very oversize shower, large enough for a seat and an attendant if necessary.

5. Master bath toilet is located so it would be easy for an attendant to assist on and off.

On the outside, don't forget to provide hookups for an RV so that when friends and relatives, kids and grandkids visit they have a place to park.

If you have pets, an outside faucet with both hot and cold water makes washing them a lot easier for both of you.

* * * * * *

You don't say what your place looks like, but consider the orientation of your house with respect to the points of the compass before you finalize your design. We have a view and the large living room windows face due North. This means that whatever you are looking at is lit by the sun, and the sun never shines directly in the window. Both very nice features. This did not happen by accident.

 

[rtimgray]

Curly Dave offers some of the best advice I've heard. When we built the first part of our house, it had the bedrooms on the second story (up a flight of stairs) which is fine right now. A couple of years ago, we started a large addition (about 1,500 sq. ft.) and while we built our master bed/bath combo on the second floor of it, we have made accomodations for a first story master bed/bath as well. Likewise, the first floor will have a walk-in (or roll in) shower and all the doors are 36" wide. We have room outside to add a ramp should the need arise. We included everything that we will need (laundry and utility room, etc.) all on the first floor, so if we become unable to climb stairs, we can just abandon the upstairs.

Adding these features at this point doesn't cost much, but changing things later is tough. If you have already included these plans, then I applaud your forethought.

Sound like a great project. Good luck and take care.

 

[brown40]

I'll add another encouragement for contingency planning. Entrances on grade or with a ramp, bathroom facilities that don't require a step up to access shower/bath/toilet; grab bars installed in bathrooms; kitchen workspace that can be utilized comfortably in a seated position; laundry facilities on first floor/at grade; bedroom at first floor or at grade. Heating system with access ports for new loops or additions; electrical service with generator hookup/transfer switch; standing seam steel roof; extra R-value all around.

The RV hookup idea is a great one, as is a guest/mother-in-law/caregiver area with separate facilities.

Aging is golden... it's also rusty and unpredictable! Good contingency planning for infirmities will ensure the house remains adaptable to potential changing conditions, and adds value to the home that niceties cannot. If you build it 'ADA' you won't regret it.

 

[dave1949]

All good advice regarding homes for aging gracefully.

I hope the OP is not offended by my comments. We give opinions as requested, the OP has to sort them out. Simply saying "that's wonderful, good luck" isn't adding much value IMHO.

Two other ideas apply I think.

One, multi-generation housing is becoming more common driven by economic conditions. I don't see the conditions driving that trend changing very much in the next decade or two. If you have children or aging parents it might be something to consider. Including that living space now is cheaper than adding it later or as separate structure. How it is incorporated into the design is a personal choice and may depend on zoning (single versus multiple residence homes).

Two, unless you have family that will live on in your house, everything goes on the real estate market eventually. It will probably matter a good deal to you how much your home is worth on the open market eventually. It is usually a significant factor in retirement financial planning being the most expensive asset you have. You just never know what health or personal desires may lead to in the future regarding where you live. The point is this: it costs about as much to build a home with low market appeal as it does to build one with high appeal. Don't shoot yourself in the foot by building something too far out of the mainstream of what people want and expect in a home or you will surely pay for it down the road.

 

[ultrarunner]

Many homes in the Oakland hills are built on downslope lots and quite a few have second kitchens and some even have elevators... so access and quarters for help/family are in place.

I bought my home from an elderly couple that had a very hard time with mobility the last couple of years... he said the reason he as able to remain in the home so long is because there were no barriers...

Garage is at the same level of the home... not even a threshold to speak of and the drive in front is perfectly level... both of which are almost unheard of in the hills and something I never would have given much consideration.

 

[EddieWalker]

That's all well and good until it comes time to sell the place. Then the buyer's lender sends out the appraiser and the building inspector and they find all the construction defects that you have to fix before the mortgage loan is approved and the escrow closes.

That's kind of sort of how it works, but not really. The appraiser puts in his report all the things that he finds wrong with the house. The buyer then uses that report to try and adjust the price accordingly, or they just walk away because there is more wrong with it then they want to deal with. The seller can either make the changes asked of him, or he can refuse. Then it's up to the buyer to accept the deal or not.

What usually happens is the place is so junky that the price reflects that and you can get a house for $30 a square foot or less. Most of the time the issues that are wrong with a house are hidden, or painted over. This is a good part of how I earn my income. Fixing those things that people didn't know about when buying their house. Most of the time it's inside city limits where there is a building code and they where inspected. Unfortunately, it's easy enough to build something wrong, cut corners or just have a flawed design and nobody catches it. Then the foundation gets blamed because of the clay. In almost every case, it's the framing of the roof that is causing all the problems and trying to make a room bigger and taller.

Some of the very worse built houses that I ever came across where in the SF East Bay where I'm from. Tract homes in the 80's and 90's where going up so fast that builders could get away with all sorts of things. I know of neighborhoods where they would only use one nail at each end of the studs!!! And now those homes are selling for over half a million dollars each.

Eddie

 

[CurlyDave]

...Garage is at the same level of the home... not even a threshold to speak of and the drive in front is perfectly level... both of which are almost unheard of in the hills and something I never would have given much consideration.

In most places this is not to code, and in all cases it is a bad idea. I am surprised that no home inspector caught this in California.

The reason is that cars in the garage produce gasoline vapor, which is more dense than air. The living quarters should be at least 18" above the garage floor to prevent the gasoline vapor from entering the house. It is both a fire danger, and a chemical hazard. In most instances, the air in the garage is still and the vapor stays low, inside the house the heating/cooling system circulates the air and the vapor mixes right in.

* * * * * * *

Other minor features for the house.

There should be a number of electrical outlets at waist height throughout the house. The purpose is to be able to plug in a vacuum cleaner without bending over. So, there should be one no more than about 20' from every square inch of floor, even if you have a central vacuum system.

Don't leave out a room for an office. The older I get, the more paperwork I have just to live. Taxes are more complex every year, medical forms, insurance forms, etc. And, I need a place to put the computer printer.

We put an electrical outlet in every closet. I know this sounds like overkill, but it is cheap during construction, and when I had to put the WiFi router in one, it paid off.

 

[ultrarunner]

In most places this is not to code, and in all cases it is a bad idea. I am surprised that no home inspector caught this in California.

The reason is that cars in the garage produce gasoline vapor, which is more dense than air. The living quarters should be at least 18" above the garage floor to prevent the gasoline vapor from entering the house. It is both a fire danger, and a chemical hazard. In most instances, the air in the garage is still and the vapor stays low, inside the house the heating/cooling system circulates the air and the vapor mixes right in.

Makes sense... yet this type of construction is very prevalent in much of Contra Costa with slab construction... and a big plus when marketing to those with mobility issues.

Basically the entire home with two garage is built on a single monolithic slab on same plane... these homes all have gas water heaters in the garage on raised platforms...

Brother sold his circa 1948 Pleasant Hill home with the original cartridge fuse mains service for 850k last year... buyers had numerous inspections... chimney, roof, home, termite, drainage, sewer lateral and all came through with flying colors... did have about 4 square inches of dry rot at the bottom of the man door casing from the garage to the outside and was charge $300 to replace that one stucco molding.

What makes my Oakland home and that of some of my friends unusual is they are all built on down slope lots with the garage being built on a slab and the home being built over a crawl space and garage floor and home floor all on the same plain.

Come to think of it... several brand new Montclair Homes... prices 1.2m and up all have the garages at street level and the entire home is built under the garage... sometimes 3 or 4 stories of wood frame under the concrete garage floor suspended on wood floor joists... they all have spectacular 5 bridge views of San Francisco!

 

[R_Walter]

That's kind of sort of how it works, but not really. The appraiser puts in his report all the things that he finds wrong with the house. Eddie

You sure you're not confusing the appraiser with the home inspector...??

 

[EddieWalker]

In most places this is not to code, and in all cases it is a bad idea. I am surprised that no home inspector caught this in California.

The reason is that cars in the garage produce gasoline vapor, which is more dense than air. The living quarters should be at least 18" above the garage floor to prevent the gasoline vapor from entering the house. It is both a fire danger, and a chemical hazard. In most instances, the air in the garage is still and the vapor stays low, inside the house the heating/cooling system circulates the air and the vapor mixes right in.

Is this still code? I remember back in the late 80's in Dublin and Alemeda CA that they would pour the walls for the garage first and frame up the house, then come back and pour the garage floor and driveway after the house was sealed in. Every garage was about 14 inches below the floor of the house, which required a single step. The reason was to stop carbon monoxide from getting into the house and also in case of a gas leak to the water heater. A lot of houses had the water heater in their garage. I never understood the water heater reasoning in the garage, but it didn't seem to apply to them inside the house or in an attic.

Then some time in the 90's, they stopped doing that. I was told it was because cars burned so much cleaner now that it wasn't a concern anymore. I can't think of a newer house anywhere that I've been that has a step down to the garage.

Eddie

 

[sld]

Brand new patio homes around here have the garage on the same slab as the house. No step whatsoever.