New to me F3680, first use and impressions

[jcummins]

If any of you have seen any of my post asking questions on the F series, you know I've been interested in getting one for some time. Finally traded my ZD326 for an F3680, 72" side discharge deck. Reasons I wanted the F, over the ZD....mowing around ponds, hillsides, wet areas. Today, didn't mow the yard, but did mow some areas I mow every other mowing, and also into areas, the ZD wouldn't go. I've got some questions for other F owners, and a recommendation to Kubota on the controls....so read on.

It took me 5 freaking minutes and STUCK IT.



That area was untouchable with the ZD. I drive the JD Gator thru there all the time in 2wd, so thought the F3680, 4wd would go through it. NOT. The obvious problem, the tires. SO...found that limitation real quick.

High grass mowing...better than the ZD, but still short of what I had hoped for.



In fairness, another pass cleaned it up. Some of that darker shade of grass was up to my should in the seat, so it was longggg. You can see the results of second pass, since I made a couple of passes uphill from that last cut.

Impressions:
Cut quality, believe the ZD is a tad better, in the general yard, judgement out. I need to mow the whole yard before saying for sure. The ZD would do a lot worse in that really tall stuff.
Hillsides....the rear end does slide down hill, but is controllable, making it crab a little but much better than the ZD. But I was expecting to do a little better.
Out front deck...HUGE improvement over the ZD. Edges of creeks etc, I can nudge the deck up and just run the wheels to the edge, then back up.
Speed...it's FAST, MUCH faster than the ZD.
Ride...MUCH better than the ZD. The ZD feels choppy compared to the F3680. I can run this F faster and not get as beat to death.
Hydraulic whine...much louder than the ZD. Don't like that.
Low range. I thought why would a mower have a low range. Well I found out. Dang thing TO fast in slow trimming areas etc. Found I needed to use low range to be able to control it better. AND, it really tall grass, low range works better.


Questions and a Kubota recommendation:
How does everyone else handle this HST go pedal? I'm sure I'll get more accustom to it, but I find the pedal a bit awkward. If I'm doing fine/slower forward/back I tend to want my foot and heel on the whole pedal to toggle back/forth. But that's not comfortable to me. Put my heel back on the floor, when just mowing. My recommendation to Kubota...is have ONE push pedal. The gas lever on the side of the steering column, should be a shuttle forward/backward and the HST pedal you just push for power...but not for reversing the mower. Maybe that's habits with the shuttle shift on my M7040....but it would make the right foot far more comfortable in operating the mower.

Tires...given how quickly I got it stuck, could/would a more knobby tire work better. I found tire spin on the big tires when making turns. Wasn't expecting to see that. Given that, I suspect a more aggressive tire would tear the lawn, but obviously a disappointment that I got it stuck so darn quick.

Quick steering. I'll get use to it, and I expected the rear steer would feel the way it does. But, boyee is it quick. You can really jerk that rear around. You can easily over steer. Steering knob? I like them and have had them on every mower/tractor I've ever had that has a steering wheel. How about other F owners?

The deck size alone.....then add in the speed.....this mower is going to cut into my seat time in mowing.

Am I happy I traded? YES! YES!

 

[murphy1244]

Always wanted to see a F-series in person but no one stocks them here. I ended up with a kubota powered Ventrac instead. Does it have a roller on the rear of the deck?

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Murphy, There are three smaller rollers on the back of the deck. The two out side rear edge rollers lift up when the deck stands straight up for service or just because you want to stand it straight up.
I never have mine out of low gear and rarely have it in the more aggressive 4wd position. Do ocassionally use the differential lock pedal on super steep hills.
To expect to fly thru super high grass that is so tall the deck is laying it down and rolling over it so it can't stand up to be cut is unreasonable. I go slower in really tall stringy grass and some times back up using the foot pedal that I really like the way it's laid out and operates for back and forth operation course it may be that I'm used to it. Did you run it full out wide open? Kubota recommends it and I do it on taller/thicker grass with no redos. I've mostly started doing wide open throttle on almost all mowing and it really makes a difference over about 80% throttle in the cut quality.
If your doing really tall tall grass that is like baling string you may want to set aside a couple hundred dollars per wheel to replace the $1 seal that gets the string grass wrapped around it and destroys the seal on the drive wheels or lift your deck with the hand lever and go thru it off the ground and high and then drop it and go again for the proper cut. These are great yard mowers but you may want a bush hog for your tractor for uncut fields that are shoulder high and then cut with your F.
I to got my 4wd F stuck in the one corner of my rental property that was a pure swamp. I couldn't believe it but the turf tires become slicks pretty quick when the tread becomes filled/packed with good ole slick mud. If your going to keep mowing your mud bog you may want to invest in some chains which should be cheap at this time of the year to use for just that one spot. The F2680e returned to me with ag tread tires and I don't care much for them and don't need them.
Mine whines in high just like ever Kubota I've owned but not much in low which is what I've always used except when driving across pavement. I did try to beat a rain storm one day and did my open fairly flat field in high but my nose started bleeding and my head kept hitting the cover till I fastened the seat belt so I had to slow down. All the tenants came out and watched as I flew by with the 91 pressed on their cell phones and waiting to press the other 1 to get thru quick.
Hope I didn't build you up to much to believe it's a tank and invincible and can leap tall buildings in a single bound. It's a 4wd diesel comfortable as a mower can be mower that is restricted to the physics of gravity as are most other wheeled vehicles that will cut grass better than any other mower made but won't cut trees down or grass that won't stand up under the deck so it can be cut off at the bottom of the blade.
You'll learn it, like most other things have some limitations but using it for it's intended purpose will bring a smile to your face almost every time. :thumbsup:

 

[jcummins]

Well yes, I did think it was a tank and could push over trees and churn them up...:laughing:

I've been around the block enough to know turf tires and mud do not work. I mowed several areas that the ZD would have been hopeless in, where the pond tire tire was leaving a significant mud track, but as long as the other side was on firm ground...it kept going. The area I got stuck...all four tires was in mud. I hesitated, and almost didn't go through there, but thought the gator in 2wd can so..let's see. What tires where those that you didn't like? Carisle ATV tire, not ag tire, is more what I think may work on this mower. For now, I just won't go thru there.

As to the tall grass....I was seeing just how much it would handle. That area I do want to mow, but it's tall enough now, I'll cut it down first with something else. Then get it in shape for the F3680 mowing.

I think one thing that really did surprise me was the rear siding downhill. Especially with the 275lbs I got back there, I wasn't expecting that. It's not that it didn't handle it....it just did so in a manner, that is going to be unnerving IF...I try that in a sloped area...right next to the water. And I have one specific area along my drive that I was wanting to mow...right next to the water...on a pretty sharp slope. I'll have to work up to that, but now thinking that is going to be .... 'tricky'.

 

[TailDragon]

On steep slopes I will lock in the 4 wheel drive, seems to keep the steer wheels from walking down slope.
On my 72 in Rear discharge I mounted wheels and tires from a BX 18xx (same size) bar turf pattern as drive wheels. Tires do not load up but will churn up a mess. At least you can put it in neutral to pull it out of the mud.

 

[jcummins]

On steep slopes I will lock in the 4 wheel drive, seems to keep the steer wheels from walking down slope.
On my 72 in Rear discharge I mounted wheels and tires from a BX 18xx (same size) bar turf pattern as drive wheels. Tires do not load up but will churn up a mess. At least you can put it in neutral to pull it out of the mud.

And putting it in neutral, is what I did. You have pictures of your tires? Carisle has come out with a WT300 tire that is interesting. They also have an ATV tire, patterned after the turf tire, just a lot more aggressive that I kind of like. Having spent all my money on this thing....different tires will not be in the picture for awhile.

I had 4wd locked on the slope. As I said, I didn't expect it. As long as I wasn't ...right...next...to the water, it wasn't unnerving, but very noticable.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I bought a RTV1140 about 4 years ago. It is great and will go almost any where, slowly. First year I got it we had more snow than is usual for Ky and the RTV became essential. I live on a some what steep hill and we keep the grandkids when school is closed. Had to go to the bottom of the hill (3 streets down from my street at the top) and pick up the grands since the car wouldn't even do a good atart up the hill. Some times I'd drive thru the undeveloped lots just for the fun of it and grands loved it. The spirit of invincible and unstoppable overcame me. My steepest land is right in front of my front porch with about 25' of pretty steep. I was going up and down worse spots. Was going to go pick the grands up one morning and as I was coming around the side of the house and preparing to cross in front of the house on the level strip I decided I'd go diagonal across the slope. Well, guess what a RTV will do in snow going diagonal across a steep slope. It will slide sideways just like a car or truck would do in the same situation. I learned that side ways force to push an object (RTV) down hill will make tires slide side ways pretty good. Tires pushed sideways going down hill don't have much grip. Got my attention and back to the old go up and go down but going sideways is going or may result in a slip and slide sensation. Same with the F, more aggressive tread will pull you thru mud but that side hill in wet grass or moist grass or tall grass would scare me. I cut the same slope sideways with my F but it will fight to some times do the crab deal at its steepest part. Same hill where my new small Z scared the poop out of me when going straight down and one wheel started sliding and the more I tried to stop it the faster it started going sideways and fortunately I wasn't directly above the two trees at the bottom of the hill but it was heading toward one till I gave it the gas to go fast enough for both tires to catch up and straighten out.
You'll have this all worked out and can help others with similar situations know what to expect and how to overcome it or avoid it in just a few more adventures, If you don't go in the pond first and even then turn the key off quick and drag it out and go forth knowing where the edge to not pass is. We need people with actual experience to teach those following in your footsteps.:thumbsup:

 

[628pm]

Thanks for all of the good info on this thread.

 

[jcummins]

After sleeping on this..... I think the turf tires limits this F3680. The F as it sits I think will mow across my slopes, which i want to do, but the rear end is going to hang dowhill. Better tread on the steer tires i think are going to be needed to mow across these slopes with out that happening. Unfortunately, one specific area i want to mow across the slope is next to my driveway and I was wanting the F to cut that area for aesthetics, but kind of thinking it's not going to do it with the rear hanging downhill because it would be in the water.

Other F owners, would different tires on the steering axle fix what I'm talking about?

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

I for one don't know.......... but.....in my mind the more rubber on the road gives a better grip especially with sideways pressure against the tire. Just the way my mind is working, not any experience I've had other than I have the regular turf tires on my home F 4wd and don't have any real traction issues. I usually always prefer turf for mowing machines and industrial tread R4s for my tractors with FELs due to weight load.
There is always the fact that some times the slope can be to steep to maintain except for the up and down method which won't work for you with water at the bottom of the down. A sickle bar mower may be your best option but you'll have to invent one to work on the F.
Maybe others with actual experience will chip in.

 

[4570Man]

If you change the back wheels you have to keep them the same size as the current wheel. If you don't you mess up the ratio in the transmission when it is in 4wd.

 

[jcummins]

I for one don't know.......... but.....in my mind the more rubber on the road gives a better grip especially with sideways pressure against the tire. Just the way my mind is working, not any experience I've had other than I have the regular turf tires on my home F 4wd and don't have any real traction issues. I usually always prefer turf for mowing machines and industrial tread R4s for my tractors with FELs due to weight load.
There is always the fact that some times the slope can be to steep to maintain except for the up and down method which won't work for you with water at the bottom of the down. A sickle bar mower may be your best option but you'll have to invent one to work on the F.
Maybe others with actual experience will chip in.

I cut that now with a sickle bar, but the cut is not as nice as I'd prefer. Even with my M7040 which has loaded tires, and weights...I mow one pond dam diagonally. Across the slope puckers me to much. Sooo, maybe I'm expecting too much out of the F3680.

 

[jcummins]

Well...just came in from mowing the front/back yard around the house, garden and to the pond. Unlike John Thomas who just uses low range....I used both low and high. Low around house, mowing around things, but I've got some more open areas, and used high....and I quickly found I had it wide open...and it is FAST compared to the ZD326. Mower is in a completely different league. When I say wide open, that's the hst pedal to the stop, with about 3/4 throttle. It's a rough ride going that fast, but a different rough than the ZD326, more controllable. I mowed the ZD326 wide open too, 3/4 throttle.

Now I've got to figure out a different way to work on my tan, since mowing seat time is going to be less. Maybe fishing....yep fishing it will be.

 

[jcummins]

Finished mowing the yard. Use to take me 4 hours..10 mins or so. This mowing with F3680, 3 hours flat. F3680 has cut my mowing time by 25%. AND...I took a stab at mowing that inside pond dam. I got thru it, but I didn't get as close to the water as I wanted...no nerve. I'll get better at it, but that rear does drag down the hill. Feels like a bunch, but probably not as much as I feel.

QUESTION for F series owners:

1. The right front gauge wheel on this 72" deck will go into rotating gyrations the faster you go. Left wheel seems ok. I don't really have amanual on the mower, but did find a F3680 WSW manual that included the mower, but it made no mention at all of any gauage wheel adjustments, other than height. How can I, or can I, fix this? It really catches your eye as you mow, as such finding I was looking at it all the time.

2. Hydraulic whine. It's provably normal, but it is very noticeable on this F3680. I've heard it in HST tractors as well, just none I've owned, and some loud, some aren't. Anything I can check, short of doing a fluid change, as to problems that may be there. Other than the whine, performs great.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

Finished mowing the yard. Use to take me 4 hours..10 mins or so. This mowing with F3680, 3 hours flat. F3680 has cut my mowing time by 25%. AND...I took a stab at mowing that inside pond dam. I got thru it, but I didn't get as close to the water as I wanted...no nerve. I'll get better at it, but that rear does drag down the hill. Feels like a bunch, but probably not as much as I feel.

QUESTION for F series owners:

1. The right front gauge wheel on this 72" deck will go into rotating gyrations the faster you go. Left wheel seems ok. I don't really have amanual on the mower, but did find a F3680 WSW manual that included the mower, but it made no mention at all of any gauage wheel adjustments, other than height. How can I, or can I, fix this? It really catches your eye as you mow, as such finding I was looking at it all the time.

2. Hydraulic whine. It's provably normal, but it is very noticeable on this F3680. I've heard it in HST tractors as well, just none I've owned, and some loud, some aren't. Anything I can check, short of doing a fluid change, as to problems that may be there. Other than the whine, performs great.

The wheel is supposed to be on the ground holding the weight of the deck. Apparently one wheel is and the other one isn't. There are very fine adjustments on th wheel rod. Drop the dancing wheel a bit till it is carrying the equal weight of the deck and I believe your wheel will quit dancing.
Many people on the Kubota tractor forum have tried to save noney and used other than sudt2 and the whine was greater and when they switched back to sudt2 the whine was noticeably less.
The previous owner or user may have tried to save money but it will whine in high gear more than low gear.
Presently in Crossville, Tn. Mariners Pointe with dock at the back door.

 

[Happy Gilmore]

My F2680E was stuck twice so far at my pond lot, but it's 2wd. I just grabbed the RTV and pulled it out. I've only put 10 hours on it these last couple weeks since purchasing it used, but I love it! I find low range to be just fine for the mowing I'm doing. I think once you get used to the HST pedal, you're going to grow to like it and the maneuverability it affords. I have the 72" RD deck on mine.

 

[jcummins]

Oh I love mine too, very happy I traded. But as with everything, there is room for improvement. Some of it is designed in a manner to contain cost...not necessarily the best solution. Low range on trim areas, but no low range out in the open. High range and I GO.

On the gauge wheel spinning. In the barn on the level, bottom edge of the deck is the same height from the floor, both sides. The wheel is looser than the other, kind of looking like more wear. Probably because it's been doing this for awhile. The height adjusters are in the same position both wheels. What is the item I circled in blue on the wheel?



This next picture, is on the smaller pond dam, which I even mowed with the ZD. There is one spot that has a little dip, and I stopped in it, got off and snapped this picture. You can see how the rear is downhill from the front tires....this is what I call crabbing. Have no idea what the proper term is. The other dam pond has long stem fescue on it. If it is not hayed I will cut with sickle, then try to mow it every third mowing or so....to keep it trimmed down. The dam pond in this picture is mowed regular, being adjacent to my driveway. Would the extra weight be pulling the rear down?

 

[jcummins]

I failed to make any mention on the whine. Yes, aware that some machines require SUDT or you get a bad whine. Have no idea what's in it. It looks clean, and the hydraulic filter has been changed. I have some SUDT that was scheduled to be used on the ZD at 400hrs, figured I would use at 400hrs on the F3680....but I may not be content to not change it just so I know it's got the right stuff. Have to think on that. One reason I don't have an HST tractor, didn't want the whine.

I took a small break, and walked out to my dock, threw a spinner bait few times, caught I think 8. All of my fish running smaller than I want, but it use to be quite different. I'm working on changing that. Go catch em John.

 

[johncar]

Hello, congrats on your purchase, I too have just recently picked up one of these second hand with about 480 hours previous use. I am new to this forum and was reading your posts. Could be wrong but I think that the item you circled in blue is indeed a device to inhibit the wheels vertical pivot from free spinning uncontrollably around and around.
Without pulling it apart I assume that there is a spring loaded ball in there that should find an indent on the shaft in the straight ahead position. Mine is barely noticeable due to wear I am sure, but still has some slight effect.

I think that the crabbing effect is something we will both have to live with and just my humble opinion but I don't think it is so much to do with the steering wheels sliding down hill but actually more the drive wheels for every foot forwards depending on the slopes angle and texture will slide downwards a percentage, so to correct this we need to steer in the opposite direction to keep the mower running parallel to the embankment. This means that the rear steering wheels will hang downhill keeping the mower running straight, if that makes sense.

When you think about it, if it was only or mainly the steering wheels that were sliding down hill then to get them to go up hill you would just turn them in that direction but of course you can't because it would then run the front downhill moreso.

Sort of like a boat crossing a flowing river, it will have to steer up current to go directly across and the back end will hang down current to counteract the sliding effect of the current.

So if I were to do anything I am thinking of better grip on the drive wheels although I doubt if there would be a great improvement because unless we are on rails gravity will always cause a bit of a slide as we go. So I will just try and work with what I have I think.

I am liking the mower very much, it seems very capable and easy to operate but it has had a bit of rough treatment from the previous owner so a few things to service and repair. Hoping for nothing major wrong with it. I just found yesterday while changing the rear drive oils that the top steering bushes on the rear axle are worn pretty bad. pulled them down and surprised to see just a 20mm plastic bush in there which seem a bit light duty. The pins they rotate on are worn as well so it will be off to the spare parts man tomorrow. hope it is not too expensive..

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

My front yard where it's steepest appears steeper than your pic and I do some of the crabbig at its steepest part. I have a video posted on this Lawn and Garden forum with angle meter on hood or ground.in low gear and see if your forward speed isn't fast enough with the pedal to the metal. I believe me doing low gear at full out engine is near as fast as you with reduced engine speed and higher gear and you get the extra benefit of the whine you don't like. TyrI'd take the extra weights off and see if it makes a difference.
If the blue circled thing doesn't adjust your wiggle then drop that wheel one slot at a time till it quits doing it.
I run engine full out with the foot pedal determining forward speed and this makes blades spin really fast which is what I want. Try that on yours and see if it doesn't reduce your whine and only use high gear which will produce the loudest whine as part of its makeup.When you need more ground speed. I believe you'll see a big increase in ground speed using full engine throttle and full pedal to the metal in low and lots less whine. I had trouble for years doing the full throttle thing being a gas engine guy all my life but diesel people say that's how diesels are to be run, full out all the time when under load.