Another shed question - screws or nails?

[newbury]

I'm about to build a SMALL shed, about 12x20, and was planning on nailing a lot.

But got to wondering - is it better to screw or nail?

The lower portions, floor level and below will be PT, so that needs galvanized or something that works with PT. But what about screwing it all?

I realize screws would be about a penny apiece and nails quite a bit cheaper.

What's the TBN group thought?

 

[s219]

Normally, I pick based on what is better or easier for each aspect of the job. There really isn't one choice that is universal. If you are stick building a shed, I am pretty sure nails are the best approach for all framing work in terms of speed and productivity. For other stuff, it can probably go either way. In terms of speed, I can probably put in 10-15 well placed nails with a framing gun in the time it takes to drive one equivalent screw.

Thinking back to the last shed I built, the entire floor frame was nailed together with my framing gun, and plywood decking was nailed on with the framing gun. Wall framing was definitely all nails, and nails for the sheathing/siding. All nails for roof framing, and nails to put roof sheathing on. I know I used lots of screws too, but can't really remember where....

For some stairs I built that go down a 40' bank to my dock, I used mostly bolts and screws to put up the framing and beams. Then framing gun with nails (glue-coated ring shank) were used to nail the stringers onto the side frame, and to put all the stair treads and risers on. Railing posts attached with bolts, and then railings were nailed on.

For my boathouse roof, more screws were used than typical, but I did use the framing gun and nails to laminate 2x lumber into beams, with some bolts in key places. Roof framing was nailed together (rafters prefabbed into trusses before being lifted up into place). Purlins were put on with impact driver and star drive screws, mainly because I wanted the pull-out capacity for uplift resistance, and got better numbers with two screws per purlin/rafter intersection. It was also a lot easier working with an impact gun and screws up on that roof hanging over water than wrestling with nail gun and hose. I can put an impact gun in a holster on my belt. The nail gun would probably pull my pants down if there was even a way to hang it from my belt. One big change on this project was use of Simpson structural screws for hurricane ties and other structural hardware. I used hanger nails where I could, but in many places the structural screw was easier to use.

 

[hslogger]

I would think your building is gonna be fine with nails or screws. A lot depends on YOUR choice of installation. The latest generation of star head wood screws are simply great to use. You didn't mention if you have screw guns, air guns, or plain ol elbow grease hammers. The big issue in my opinion, and I would seek this information at a REAL lumber store is what the composition of your PT sill wood will be. The last few years pressure treating processing in regions of the USA has changed a lot. That means some types of metal screws or nails are NOT compatible with long life when used in conjunction with this type of pressure treating.

Simpson ties and screws are really super. Tico nails are fine, too. Lately I have just opted to screw stuff with the star heads because it makes it so tight, and if I mess up, they are easy to back out and re do. I don't have a framer air nailer, but do have some cordless drills that just work fine enough for me.

 

[davesl708]

Screws have the advantage of not working loose during the freeze thaw cycles like nails do. Nails have the advantage of speed and economy.
If not pressed for time screws would be better for lasting strength.

 

[Coyote machine]

I like to consider what I may have to take apart at a later date, if needed and then use coated lags with star drive. They come in all sizes and are incredibly strong. Yes, nails driven by a framing nailer are faster, and same with a palm nailer, BUT the extra time with screws can be worth it if repairs or expansion is needed in future.

However, I did find that reapir to my over two bay garage flat roof did not work as planned even with using screws. I used expensive Azek decking boards and their brand of screws, and cap plugs, which are designed to pull the decking down to it's underlayment/joists, BUT when trying to remove the planks to effect a leak repair in the sub-roofing, the screws refused to back out completely, or just spun and had to be removed by using a plug cutter for EACH screw; and that was a complete nightmare. Costly in labor to remove, had to cut oversized plugs to put in place of those cut when removing the screws, etc.

So think about what you want now, and in the future, and chose carefully.:confused3:
Good luck, let us know what you choose and how it goes, with lots of pics!:thumbsup:

Thanks.

CM

 

[newbury]

After some discussion with my son it looks like we will probably go with screws. We've both got DeWalt 20V max drills, lot's of batteries, and not generally in a rush.

Plus the shed will be about 75 yards from the nearest power plug or we have to lug a generator.

 

[Looking4new]

Smart choice! I would go with screws, myself. Everything I have outside that is made of wood is put together with 3-4" deck screws.

 

[PILOON]

Maybe I'm lazy but I'd be using a framing nail gun for the entire build except the roofing where it would be a roofing coil nail gun.
With a helper that is about a 2 day job (3 tops).
Only screws I'd use would be for hardware and fittings.

I live in a heavy snow belt area and the dozens of 'nailed' sheds and garages that I have built are still in top shape.
Well a few need new shingles now.
Oh, and none are on foundations, just blocks or posts.

 

[PILOON]

Maybe I'm lazy but I'd be using a framing nail gun for the entire build except the roofing where it would be a roofing coil nail gun.
With a helper that is about a 2 day job (3 tops).
Only screws I'd use would be for hardware and fittings.

I live in a heavy snow belt area and the dozens of 'nailed' sheds and garages that I have built are still in top shape.
Well a few need new shingles now.
Oh, and none are on foundations, just blocks or posts.

 

[s219]

After some discussion with my son it looks like we will probably go with screws. We've both got DeWalt 20V max drills, lot's of batteries, and not generally in a rush.

Plus the shed will be about 75 yards from the nearest power plug or we have to lug a generator.

The distance would not stop me -- air hoses are cheap. If you do go with screws, I'd suggest picking up an impact driver -- it will be much much better than any drill for this type of work.

 

[pat32rf]

Up here we have switched to Robertson (square hole) screws as they are easier for a screw driver to hold than the star head (Phillips). I have found that there always seems to be some reason to pull something apart in 5-10 years and its nice to just unscrew it. Docks, decks, siding or metal roof, all come apart easier with screws and most can be reused with new screws.
We have regular (gold), PT (green) cedar (brown) or stainless from 1 1/2" up to about 5"

 

[newbury]

The distance would not stop me -- air hoses are cheap. If you do go with screws, I'd suggest picking up an impact driver -- it will be much much better than any drill for this type of work.

like

20V MAX* Lithium Ion Premium 3-Speed Hammerdrill ?

0r

20V MAX* Lithium Ion 1/2" Impact Wrench ?

Yes, they are nice and all use the same batteries.

 

[timswi]

like

20V MAX* Lithium Ion Premium 3-Speed Hammerdrill ?

0r

20V MAX* Lithium Ion 1/2" Impact Wrench ?

Yes, they are nice and all use the same batteries.

Actually an impact driver is none of the above...it's like this DEWALT 20-Volt Max Lithium-Ion Cordless Brushless 1/4 in. Impact Driver Kit-DCF886D2 - The Home Depot

Once you use one of these, you will never drive a screw with anything else. I have 2 of them in 20v and would never be without them.

 

[s219]

Yeah, neither of those is what you want -- pickup an impact screw driver with the 1/4" hex quick-chuck, like the one timswi linked above, or similar. There are many good brands, but if you have an investment in batteries already, obviously go for the DeWalt.

I lost count of the number of screws I drove for my recent projects, but the impact screw driver made all the difference in the world. Would never want to go back to a drill for driving wood screws, ever.

 

[dragoneggs]

Maybe I'm lazy but I'd be using a framing nail gun for the entire build except the roofing where it would be a roofing coil nail gun.
With a helper that is about a 2 day job (3 tops).
Only screws I'd use would be for hardware and fittings.

I live in a heavy snow belt area and the dozens of 'nailed' sheds and garages that I have built are still in top shape.
Well a few need new shingles now.
Oh, and none are on foundations, just blocks or posts.

Personal decision but I would generally go with nails too except screws for any flooring.

Yeah, neither of those is what you want -- pickup an impact screw driver with the 1/4" hex quick-chuck, like the one timswi linked above, or similar. There are many good brands, but if you have an investment in batteries already, obviously go for the DeWalt.

I lost count of the number of screws I drove for my recent projects, but the impact screw driver made all the difference in the world. Would never want to go back to a drill for driving wood screws, ever.

The impact driver changed my life :laughing:

 

[oosik]

I have two small decks on my house. For whatever reason - I have long forgotten - I nailed the decking on one and screwed down the decking on the other. Five years later - I finally gave up pounding down nails every spring and replaced them all with screws on the one deck.

I use screws for just about everything I build now. Yes, it takes longer but the screws have much longer staying power. I use my drill to pre drill the hole and then the impact driver to install the screw. Time - one of the luxuries of retirement.

 

[Coyote machine]

Up here we have switched to Robertson (square hole) screws as they are easier for a screw driver to hold than the star head (Phillips). I have found that there always seems to be some reason to pull something apart in 5-10 years and its nice to just unscrew it. Docks, decks, siding or metal roof, all come apart easier with screws and most can be reused with new screws.
We have regular (gold), PT (green) cedar (brown) or stainless from 1 1/2" up to about 5"

Sorry, but star drive screws are Torx, NOT Phillips head. Phillips head are a 'X' shape and prone to cam-out, just as square drive screws are, to a lesser extent. Star/Torx drive are the best, hands down, and do not suffer cam- out, nor do they break off heads as frequently as any other deck type screw.

And to reiterate, a impact driver oscillates the screw as it drives it, cutting the hole as the screw is driven, reducing impact on the hand of the person/robot driving the screw, and reducing the chance of the screw binding or breaking.
The impact driver is NOT the same tool as a hammer drill or a impact gun/cordless impact 'wrench'. They all have a specific purpose; but for driving star drive, (Torx head) and any other 5" or less screw for basic construction needs an impact(screw) driver wins hands down.


Here's a Rigid brand impact driver: Factory Reconditioned Ridgid ZRR86034K 18V X4 Lithium-Ion 1-4 in. Impact Driver Kit

 

[KennyG]

Screws are great for tension applications (like holding flooring down). However, keep in mind that they will generally only have half the shear strength of nails and, from a structural rating viewpoint, are not intended to be used in shear. For the jobs we are discussing, it probably doesn't make a difference, but an inspector would fail a structure if screws are used where nails or bolts are called for because of shear loading.

 

[sld]

Nails are much better for shear loads and screws are better for tension loads.

For a shed it probably doesn't matter. I tend to use screws everywhere myself.

 

[pat32rf]

We have always referred to Phillips as star and Torx as Torx around here. Torx was originally an automotive screw/bolt. Didn't even have torx heads up here until about twenty years ago. About the only thing we still use Phillips for is drywall where the cam-out is a benefit, and maybe a bit of automotive trim.. For a short time we also had an eight point Robertson but it is seldom seen now.
Throw in Tamperproof and you wind up with a whole toolpouch full of screwdrivers..