My 16 year old son was hit by a drunk driver

[IslandTractor]

Sorry to be a downer but hopefully people can see the pain it causes when a simple cab ride home is all that would have prevented it.

Honestly I cannot understand such a muted and polite suggestion. If I were in your shoes I think I might hang out at bars at closing time with a baseball bat to insure that people understood how serious this problem is.

In my lifetime we've lost hundreds of thousands of innocent people to drunk drivers. 10,000 deaths and a quarter million injuries per year linked to DUI. Over a million drivers are arrested each year for DUI. There were almost 30 million people who admitted driving in 2012 while under the influence based a national survey. Further reading: Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Results from the 2012 National Survey on Drug Use and Health: Summary of National Findings, NSDUH Series H-46, HHS Publication No. (SMA) 13-4795. Rockville, MD: Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 2013.

Most countries in Europe cracked down on DUI in a serious way decades ago. What is taking us so long? I might need to use my baseball bat on the first jerk who mentions the "nanny state" excuse!

 

[Buggs67]

Most countries in Europe cracked down on DUI in a serious way decades ago. What is taking us so long? I might need to use my baseball bat on the first jerk who mentions the "nanny state" excuse!

I agree. But how to stop it? Most "social behavior types" will tell you that draconian punishment will not stop anti-social behavior. My experience has been that when you revoke a DWIs license, they drink and drive anyhow. And we haven't even addressed drug abuse. We had a young man stoned on heroin kill an elderly woman in a car crash.

Again, my strongest wishes for a complete recovery to your son.

 

[IslandTractor]

I agree. But how to stop it? Most "social behavior types" will tell you that draconian punishment will not stop anti-social behavior. My experience has been that when you revoke a DWIs license, they drink and drive anyhow. And we haven't even addressed drug abuse. We had a young man stoned on heroin kill an elderly woman in a car crash.

Again, my strongest wishes for a complete recovery to your son.

Europeans drink at least as much as Americans. I will have to check on the per capita DUI statistics and DUI deaths but I am pretty sure their rates are far lower than ours.

What we need is a serious "first strike and you're in jail" policy. First DUI earns you a month in the slammer and loss of license for a year. You don't think that will get John Q Public's attention? And, same penalty for refusing a breathalyzer or blood alcohol test.

 

[Buggs67]

I'm in favor of strong punishment. It's just not the American way anymore.

 

[IslandTractor]

This thread got me thinking about how we manage DUI in this country. Just a quick look at wikipedia shows we are at the far lenient end of the spectrum both for blood alcohol level permitted and in typical penalties.

Stiffest laws are in Sweden where driving after even one beer (0.02 blood alcohol) leads not only to suspended license but jail time. They also have proportionately about half the DUI deaths we do per population.

UK is interesting. They allow the same levels we do (0.08) but the penalties for being over that are severe. Even attempting to drive (ie getting into the driver's seat and starting the car) gets you up to six months in jail and a $7500 fine and a minimum year suspension. If you refuse to be tested, the penalty is identical.

What struck me in reading about other countries is that permissible blood alcohol levels were virtually ALL lower than in the US/UK. Between 0.02 and 0.05 (between one and two drinks the hour before driving) is the limit. And, they don't screw around with offenders either. China penalties for 0.02% but under 0.08% are a big fine and 6 months licence suspension; Over 0.08%: up to 3 years imprisonment, and 5 years licence suspension. If the driver causes serious injuries or death, the license will be suspended for life.

Why are we so lenient? Why do we tolerate 10,000 deaths per year and 250,000 DUI related injuries, many life changing?

 

[s219]

I think it would be good to throw the book at first time DUIs to send a message. Make sure everyone knows the policy so there is some deterrent.

 

[All In A Days Work]

Sorry to read this, prayers for your son and your family and the family of the passenger that was with your son.

 

[MoKelly]

What we need is a serious "first strike and you're in jail" policy. First DUI earns you a month in the slammer and loss of license for a year. You don't think that will get John Q Public's attention? And, same penalty for refusing a breathalyzer or blood alcohol test.

Exact same arguement for the death penalty.

MoKelly

 

[Dr_Zinj]

...
Most countries in Europe cracked down on DUI in a serious way decades ago. What is taking us so long? I might need to use my baseball bat on the first jerk who mentions the "nanny state" excuse!

Europe has a semi-decent public transportation system. Which of course is subsidized by their rather draconian tax systems. Here in New Hampshire, they're talking about cancelling Coast Bus Route 7 around the Great Bay communities because they don't get enough riders, and the state's already paying 67% of the cost; and that bus doesn't run at nights when the drunks need to go home anyway. Other point is that most places people go drinking in Europe are within walking distance of where they live or stay. Here? It's 20 miles between my house and Margarita's - not exactly a short walk when you're three sheets to the winds.

As for the death penalty, it has an added bonus of preventing repeat offenders.

 

[IslandTractor]

Europe has a semi-decent public transportation system. Which of course is subsidized by their rather draconian tax systems. Here in New Hampshire, they're talking about cancelling Coast Bus Route 7 around the Great Bay communities because they don't get enough riders, and the state's already paying 67% of the cost; and that bus doesn't run at nights when the drunks need to go home anyway. Other point is that most places people go drinking in Europe are within walking distance of where they live or stay. Here? It's 20 miles between my house and Margarita's - not exactly a short walk when you're three sheets to the winds.

As for the death penalty, it has an added bonus of preventing repeat offenders.

I am sure your practical consideration is correct in the sense that restaurants and certainly bars and alcoholic beverage industry players with their associated lobbying groups would make sure that the US did not adopt the standards used elsewhere (not just Europe by the way). Still, it is sad to think that we as a nation would not be willing to change how we drink in order to prevent significant numbers of deaths and horrible injuries per year. In Sweden it is routine for a group of friends to simply rotate one of them being the designated driver. Uber might be another solution. If there was a willingness, there would be a way to do it. Hard to imagine that a country that is willing to live with TSA protocols post 9/11 cannot see the connection between drunk driving and preventable deaths. We've lost over thirty times as many Americans to DUI since 9/11 as in the World Trade Towers and that doesn't even count the millions injured. Our "wild west" past sometimes makes us a little to much at ease with the consequences of irresponsible individual actions.