Dirt Moving Building a road

[Daronspicher]

I am in the midwest, have a 10 acre alfalfa field with a barn about 400 feet from the highway.

It's about 4 or 5 inches of black dirt on top of clay. Seemingly few or no rocks, tree stumps or bad things will be in the way.

I am planning on digging down 11 inches, putting fabric, then coming back with 9 inches of 3" limestone, topping that with 4 inches of 3/4" limestone.

12 feet wide, 400 feet long, scrape off the black dirt first into a pile, scrape off the clay second into a different pile, I think if I go at it with just the loader, I'll stress out and wear out the bucket / arms / loader in general more than if I am just scooping loose dirt.

At some point in the future, I'm going to have a limestone driveway that I probably want a box blade to maintain.

I also have a small disk (8 feet wide I think, maybe 7) used to plow up the alfalfa field when it becomes time for that again. It is a pull type, has it's own wheels and hydraulic to raise and lower it (not 3pt).

One thought is to pull the disk back and forth, disk up the roadway until it's loose, then start using the bucket to load out the dirt. It should work. One down side is the turning radius of the tractor with the disk hooked on. When I dump in the dirt pile, be careful to not jackknife and run over the thing backing up. But, it would probably do a pretty good job for what I'm doing here.

The other school of thought is to buy a box blade (probably 6' or 7' king kutter?) Put the teeth down so they peel up 2 or 3 inches of dirt before the blade actually starts to blade anything. Drag it across the path chewing up the black dirt. Then, when I start scooping up the black dirt, it will all be loose and the box blade will be out of the way (raised 3pt position). No issues backing up with that, I can turn sharper or even use reverse as part of the turn. It adds weight on the back of the tractor for when the loader is full of dirt.

In my mind the box blade is the better way to fly and I'll need one anyhow. I've also never used one before. Is it going to be as good at what I'm talking about here as I think it would be, or am I over estimating it's usefulness? I'm going to spend the time and go gentle either way, but even then would I destroy a king kutter with that much dirt work out of the gate?

Tractor is a kubota m5400, I don't think that matters too much in the equation.

Any other road building advice is also appreciated. It seems pretty straight forward, but I'm sure once I get going it will be anything but.

-Daron

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I think that the topsoil will pull off exceptionally well. I'm not sure how tight the clay is but that could give you some fits if its not good and dry. Do you have teeth on your loader bucket? Laying the fabric down and putting in a foot of stone should carry your loads just fine.

 

[gghb]

digging into the clay will create a pond in the base layer and cause problems when it freezes. try to get the road above the orignal grade and slope the shoulders to drainage ditches. search for typical road cross section for a better description

ghb

 

[vtsnowedin]

digging into the clay will create a pond in the base layer and cause problems when it freezes. try to get the road above the orignal grade and slope the shoulders to drainage ditches. search for typical road cross section for a better description

ghb

Plus 1 on that/ If you need to go deeper dig outlet trenches at the low points to drain the top of the clay. But having your finished road at nine inches or so above the ground on either side will let you shape it to drain properly and encourage snow to blow off it in light storms. You can use the topsoil you dig out to build the side slopes and not have to carry it any distance. A motor grader would just windrow it to each side and then come back and shape your shoulders after you filled the trench with your stone. But you can certainly do 400 feet with your tractor if your not on a dead line.
All in all you have a good plan.

 

[jenkinsph]

I would remove the top soil then run the limestone in 3 inch layers and roll/pack it in.

 

[DJ54]

I'd go with 304 limestone on top of the fabric. That's a mixture of #4's down to dust. Put it in, in 2-3 lifts, depending on your desired depth/height, if you want it slightly higher than the field. Wheel roll each lift with your tractor, hang an attachment on the 3 pt. for extra ballast. It works better if the material is pretty damp, almost wet.

Using the larger stone for base will leave spaces for water to lay. The 304, once packed and dry will shed most of the surface water. Plus, no stone eventually kicking around on top. If potholes develop late, you can easily grade it after a decent rain, or add more 304 to those holes, and roll in.

 

[Egon]

What's the nature of the terrain? How deep does the clay go? Is the area wet or dry? Why the need for fabric?

Should you you consider removing a wider swath of topsoil and excavating the side clay for road build up?

 

[EddieWalker]

I am in the midwest, have a 10 acre alfalfa field with a barn about 400 feet from the highway.

It's about 4 or 5 inches of black dirt on top of clay. Seemingly few or no rocks, tree stumps or bad things will be in the way.

I am planning on digging down 11 inches, putting fabric, then coming back with 9 inches of 3" limestone, topping that with 4 inches of 3/4" limestone.

12 feet wide, 400 feet long, ...

Why are you going down below the top soil? Instead of digging a deep trench that will hold water, you should be thinking about going a lot wider and digging proper drainage away from the road. At least one good trench on the high side of the road to get rid of water. Roads are all about getting rid of water. That is the first goal. Ten feet wide is plenty for a driveway. Then you need to go another 8 to 12 feet for the trench on one or both sides.

Once you get the trenches dug and the top soil removed, price what it will cost to bring in good clean fill dirt and build up the crown of your road with that. The cost is usually a quarter of what rock is and it's a lot easier to build up and compact soil then it is rock. Fabric never hurt anything, but it is designed for roads that are not done properly, or roads that are going in faster then most want to spend on waiting for the soil to dry out.

Once the dirt is done, top it with 6 inches or more of road base type rock and compact it.

Eddie

 

[vtsnowedin]

In my experience the geotextile fabrics do about the same job as an eight inch layer of clean sand and often cost as much per s.y. yard installed. If your in a wetland and the permit gods won't let you build wide enough or excavate out all the muck they can be a godsend but just separating a clay subgrade from a coarse crushed rock road base the fabric is probably not cost effective. Won't do any harm though.

 

[tractorshopper]

A tooth bar on your loader will really help you peel off the top soil and however deep clay you decide to go. Nothing wrong with putting the shanks down first on your BB to break up some, then come back and peel with your loader. I did about 50'of trail this way back into my woods to a little landing where I park my trailer and put my camper top on a rack when I take it off the truck. That was with a L3800 with tooth bar and 6' box blade. I'd figure your M should have a 7' or bigger BB.

 

[TSO]

Buy or rent a tiller. In my experience this is the best way to break up the soil into manageable material which is much easier to move around, and it will save you a lot of time. I agree with the other posters, no reason to go so deep, the geotextile fabric will act as your larger rock base, you can put the smaller stone on top of that and compact.

 

[RPW]

You might want to rent a 4 ton double roller. We found that it is extremely effective to get a good road surface. Much more effective than using your tractor. It didn't cost us very much for 2 days use.

 

[vtsnowedin]

We are only talking 400 feet here. Lets keep the cost reasonable. The tractor going back and forth will compact it soon enough especially if he does it right after a rain.

 

[edgarrian]

you only need to remove topdirt, donot remove clay, use number 4 limestone and then top. use fabric if you want. after you throw down the bigger limestone have the truck compact the stone, then do your fines

 

[joeu235]

I paid one of the best dirt men around to build my 2000 ft road two years ago. Soil is black land clay that goes down to China. He used a road grader to make a berm out of the existing soil with a ditch on either side. He told me to let the dirt berm sit for at least half a year and let the rain and traffic compact the soil before I topped it with gravel. I hauled a 17K pound trailer on the road last week just after 4 inches of rain and the road did just fine.

I have an additional 500 ft of road I need to make at the same land. Since I don't have a road grader, I'm going to use a moldboard plow to make the ditches and elevated road and then smooth out with a skid steer and final grading with a Road Boss grader.

 

[mx1alex]

I don;t mean to hijack but this question somewhat pertains to the topic at hand. I just built a house and had to quickly get gravel brought in so the construction crew could get to the site. So now I have some 3" rock basically just sitting on the ground... pretty thin in spots. The drive is on a natural crown or ridge so I'm not too worried about water issues.

Should I just keep adding more gravel on top or start anew and dig out what I've put down already to get a better base started? The drive is about 200' is all so it wouldn't be to hard to remove what's there.

 

[vtsnowedin]

I don;t mean to hijack but this question somewhat pertains to the topic at hand. I just built a house and had to quickly get gravel brought in so the construction crew could get to the site. So now I have some 3" rock basically just sitting on the ground... pretty thin in spots. The drive is on a natural crown or ridge so I'm not too worried about water issues.

Should I just keep adding more gravel on top or start anew and dig out what I've put down already to get a better base started? The drive is about 200' is all so it wouldn't be to hard to remove what's there.

3 inch rock is the good stuff for base but it needs to be in at least a six inch layer and capped with some 3/4" crushed gravel or stone mix to allow fine grading and compaction.
Edit to add: Show us some pictures please!!!

 

[Daronspicher]

A ton of great feedback here, thank you everyone.

The land is essentially flat as a pancake. I think there may be a 2 foot variance across 10 acres. I have a pretty good idea where the water goes when we have too much, it's almost like a 200 foot wide 1 inch deep flow headed in 2 directions. aka, not much real run away from this road I'm going to build.

What I seem to be learning here is I probably should take off the black dirt layer, but keep it around.

Put on a good 8 inches of 3" limestone, probably over fabric just for fun. Fabric may just be a waste of $400. I'll ask an actual local road builder (same guy who thought I should take the clay down and build a swimming pool for the 3" limestone). I'll see what he thinks of fabric just for fun.

Then, go over with maybe more.. 5 or 6 inches of 3/4" limestone.

When I have that in place, use the set aside black dirt to slope up to the gravel on both sides.

Sounding better?

Thanks, -Daron

 

[vtsnowedin]

Ayup you have gathered the best advise we have to offer.
Have fun building your project/drive. Things like this are what we all bought our tractors for.

 

[jenkinsph]

A ton of great feedback here, thank you everyone.

The land is essentially flat as a pancake. I think there may be a 2 foot variance across 10 acres. I have a pretty good idea where the water goes when we have too much, it's almost like a 200 foot wide 1 inch deep flow headed in 2 directions. aka, not much real run away from this road I'm going to build.

What I seem to be learning here is I probably should take off the black dirt layer, but keep it around.

Put on a good 8 inches of 3" limestone, probably over fabric just for fun. Fabric may just be a waste of $400. I'll ask an actual local road builder (same guy who thought I should take the clay down and build a swimming pool for the 3" limestone). I'll see what he thinks of fabric just for fun.

Then, go over with maybe more.. 5 or 6 inches of 3/4" limestone.

When I have that in place, use the set aside black dirt to slope up to the gravel on both sides.

Sounding better?

Thanks, -Daron

Curious what the limestone sells for delivered in your locale? With a turn around at the barn you are looking at about 225 yards of material. In my area in Mew Mexico the stone delivered would be about 25.00/yard, so this would be $6,000 with tax.