Linear actuator for power SSQA?

[roadhunter]

Well done. I'm going to have to figure out a way to use my aux hydraulics to do similar. Very convenient to say the least.

 

[Fallon]

Well done. I'm going to have to figure out a way to use my aux hydraulics to do similar. Very convenient to say the least.

My only problem with using hydraulics would be cost. Pulling some rough numbers out of the air...

Hydraulics:
$50-75 cylinder
$50-100 hoses
$100 control valve
$75 relief valve (so you don't break things at full machine pressure)
$10-20 brackets, bolts & stuff

Doing it electrically:
$60-100 linear actuator
$10-20 wire, switch & fuses
$10-20 brackets, bolts & stuff

My linear actuator might be marginal on power & it's longevity remains to be seen, but I'm hopefully. I still probably need to get a 6" actuator instead of a 4", but that was a measurement & parts sourcing flaw on my part, not a design flaw. Now that I've evaluated things on my mostly completed prototype I'm less concerned about the lack of an adjustable limit switch, which means more prospects for linear actuator options. A faster/stronger actuator might be a good idea if you can find one for cheap or afford a better one than I am using.

 

[roadhunter]

My only problem with using hydraulics would be cost. Pulling some rough numbers out of the air...

Hydraulics:
$50-75 cylinder
$50-100 hoses
$100 control valve
$75 relief valve (so you don't break things at full machine pressure)
$10-20 brackets, bolts & stuff

Doing it electrically:
$60-100 linear actuator
$10-20 wire, switch & fuses
$10-20 brackets, bolts & stuff

My linear actuator might be marginal on power & it's longevity remains to be seen, but I'm hopefully. I still probably need to get a 6" actuator instead of a 4", but that was a measurement & parts sourcing flaw on my part, not a design flaw. Now that I've evaluated things on my mostly completed prototype I'm less concerned about the lack of an adjustable limit switch, which means more prospects for linear actuator options. A faster/stronger actuator might be a good idea if you can find one for cheap or afford a better one than I am using.

I am of the opinion that the electric actuator is barely strong/durable enough to support this type of service and that although more expensive the hydraulic option would be my choice if doing something similar as I think it would work better under long term use. Plus I already have aux hydraulics on the FEL so all I would need is a cylinder and hoses. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Fallon]

I had the dash apart this weekend to wire up my power SSQA & a bucket cam. Everything is complete, except for the end out at the boom, the SSQA wire is just wrapped around a brace out there along with he bucket cam wiring, which isn't even hooked up. It's working as designed if you discount the missing 2" of stroke. Levers move eratically, but that's not a big deal as both arms end up locked or unlocked at the end. The missing 2" means one of the pins often is only partially locked though. I might be able to put a block in on the back of the SSQA handle to prevent one or both of the handles from going over center, forcing the other pin to end up more locked. I'll probably do that even if I replace the actuator with a 6" one (I'm also thinking at 6" one with blocks will be a better than an 8" & trying to deal with the extra 1/2" of travel. In either case I'll be doing a lot more measuring this time.

In other news I picked up the Rasbery Pi for my project to automate the wife's chicken coop. So I'll probably be stealing the 4" actuator for that, freeing me up to get a more appropriate one for the SSQA. Debating between another $50 one only getting it in the proper 6" length, or upgrading. Progressive Automations has one that looks good. It isis IPS 66 (pretty darn weather/dirt proof), 400lbs of force (double what my current one is rated to, depending on what you believe) & moves at 1" per minute. It's tripple the price though at $160. I didn't see what the amperage draw on this one is, but I ran wire good to 15@ (think the fuse is only 10@, maybe 15 and is running my bucket cam & ROPS LEDs), so may have to tie my wiring in elsewhere). I might have to re-make my brackets, but given the slots in the end of the actuator that probably means "drill 2 holes in some bar stock", way easier than my current design.

jmc was suitably unimpressed with my hacked together bushings & was kind enough to do up a few on his lathe. Thanks, I expect bushing that are round & square on the ends are going to work a lot better than what I ground down. Those will be getting installed here when I pull it apart to paint.

 

[94BULLITT]

It looks like it works good:thumbsup:

 

[PandDLong]

Interesting to see this come together. Well done - it is beyond my skill level so I'won't be powering my SSQA anytime soon but it has certainly given me ideas on how to use linear actuators (that may fit my skills).

I have to ask - what are you going to automate on the wife's chicken coop?

 

[k0ua]

Interesting to see this come together. Well done - it is beyond my skill level so I'won't be powering my SSQA anytime soon but it has certainly given me ideas on how to use linear actuators (that may fit my skills).

I have to ask - what are you going to automate on the wife's chicken coop?

What is the one thing you hate doing? Opening the the little door to let the chickens out in the morning. And closing the door to keep the predators out at night. That would be my guess.

 

[Fallon]

Interesting to see this come together. Well done - it is beyond my skill level so I'won't be powering my SSQA anytime soon but it has certainly given me ideas on how to use linear actuators (that may fit my skills).

I have to ask - what are you going to automate on the wife's chicken coop?

Really the only hard part is making the bracket for the ends of the actuator. If I go to the beefier linear actuator, the bracket will probably be reduced to literally 2 holes in some bar stock. That wouldn't be adjustable like my current design, which scares me a little given my measuring track record, but noting that can't be overcome.
Wiring it up is tedious but easy. You just have to google "linear actuator wiring diagram" it it shows you how to wire things up. The couple of wiring diagrams here look like what I did.

For the coop, there is going to be a linear actuator to close the door at dark & open it after I wake up & am leaving for work. A webcam to keep an eye on things. Probably a temperature sensor for the air & another one dropped in their water so we can see if it's freezing, along with a water level sensor to see when they need water. As their feeder is hanging from a chain, probably put a scale or at least some kind of on/off switch to detect when they are out of food.

 

[aeblank]

MAN I want one of these. @ $160, it'll go on my christmas list. Will probably need to find it from a source other than ebay though.

Does anyone have CAD of the SSQA? Drawings? Sketches with measurements?

If I can get/make CAD of it, I'll design up a bracket. I'm sure we can position the mounts such that the limits of the travel of the actuator match the limits of the levers. A set of templates could show the position of the holes. With some directions on which actuator to buy, etc. Could be pretty sweet.

Also...........
you said " moves at 1" per minute".
I don't understand that. On the data sheet, it says "Customizable forces: 900 lbs (speed 0.47?sec), 1350 lbs (speed 0.31?sec)"
That yields 6" of travel in 20 seconds at the slower of the two above numbers. Seems pretty sweet...... At 6 minutes, I won't bother....

 

[aeblank]

This must be the actuator.
Linear Actuator IP66 | Progressive Automations (I picked 6" travel, 400lbs).
0.98"/sec. So 1" per second, not minute.

So 400lbs is plenty, we think?

 

[ovrszd]

I love your tenacity and diligence in solving this problem!!! Great work and great reporting. Pictures and videos tell it all.

My concerns are protection for the electrical circuit of the actuator.

For example, you hook to your bucket, pick it up and actuate the closer, for some unknown reason the pins aren't lined up. What protects the electrical actuator from burning itself up trying to move an immoveable object?

Secondly, you really need to address the length issue before you start using it. Last thing you want is to work your SSQA with the pins only partially latched. Bad results can happen.

As for your estimated hydraulic version costs. I think you are very high.

First you don't want a large cylinder. Maybe 1.25" or at most 1.5". This limits it's ability to tear itself up if something goes wrong during the latch process. Bobcat's system uses a very small cylinder with no relief valve protection.

Second if you already have 3rd function on the FEL all that's needed is an electrical activated diverter valve. Mount it right beside the small cylinder. To latch/unlatch the pins an electrical switch is activated from the tractor seat and the 3rd function valve is used to provide hydraulic pressure.

I'm not saying this is going to be dirt cheap. But if 3rd function exists it could be done very reasonably and would have tractor lifetime durability and longevity.

If you don't currently have 3rd function the cost just went up.

Regardless of my statements, I again applaud your efforts and thank you for honestly and realistically reporting your results.

 

[aeblank]

Well, I have cad of the linear actuator, constrained to what its actual travel limits are...

 

[aeblank]

ovrszd, Many of these actuators have thermal protection. I'm sure most would agree that hydraulics are "best", it isn't as achievable. For me, if I had a 3rd function, it'd be for a grapple. So then I'd need an extra diverter for this so I could use the grapple too. This is easy, a switch and a couple wires. Its also very compact.

 

[Fallon]

No worries, constructive criticism & reality checks are appreciated. No 3rd function on my loader, yet, so the price is still a fair bit lower than the hydraulic option, even if I'm off on my numbers a bit. My first project & first ever hydraulic project was installing 3 spools & my TnT kit, so I'm not opposed to hydraulics at all. My install came out nice, after a few learning experiences. Ya, I am a bit concerned about the partial actuation of the pin due to my mis-specing the 4" actuator instead of the 6". The idea of making the bracket to big so the lever can't go over center that far is a good one, I was thinking about putting a block behind it. Annoying because I spent a while sanding & grinding those dam brackets so they wouldn't hit.

My current actuator is only rated at 200 or 300lbs & it does the job. Given the poor translations from Chinese I'm not completely sure what it's rated at. 400lbs should be more than enough. It's fused , so that should protect it, at least when I move to the bigger actuator. As I've already verified that it wouldn't take the full force, putting in a fuse less than the full draw should pop if things get ugly. I'm still not sure if I'll end up getting the bigger actuator or just stay with the $60 cheapo. I can afford to burn out 2 of those & still be cheaper.

The beefier actuator comes in several models. Same actuator, different gearbox it looks like, so slower & more force or faster & weaker. The 100lbs one would be nice & fast, but probably to weak. 400lbs looks like a good happy medium. And that was a brain fart on my part, I meant 1" per second, not minute, or about twice the speed I have now. The one I have now is slow, but it can latch at a leisurely pace while I move around after picking up the implement, so I'm not as concerned about speed of actuation as I thought I would be.

 

[aeblank]

Of possible interest.

http://www.skidsteerforum.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=54&frmView=ShowPost&PostID=22705

 

[downsizingnow48]

Also of possible interest, here are a couple examples of installing a hydraulic cylinder.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/customization/243169-scored-bobcat-power-tach-cylinder.html

 

[ovrszd]

ovrszd, Many of these actuators have thermal protection. I'm sure most would agree that hydraulics are "best", it isn't as achievable. For me, if I had a 3rd function, it'd be for a grapple. So then I'd need an extra diverter for this so I could use the grapple too. This is easy, a switch and a couple wires. Its also very compact.

Cool. I'm with you on this project. I think it's very commendable that you've conquered it.

If you had 3rd function you could use a diverter valve and have both. That was my point earlier. Sorry if I sounded like I was bad mouthing your choice. I was not. Thanks again for posting this thread and including the detail you have.

Edit: sorry I reread and realized I wasn't talking to the OP. But my responses would be the same. Great thread that a lot of readers will learn from.

 

[Fallon]

Cool. I'm with you on this project. I think it's very commendable that you've conquered it.

If you had 3rd function you could use a diverter valve and have both. That was my point earlier. Sorry if I sounded like I was bad mouthing your choice. I was not. Thanks again for posting this thread and including the detail you have.

Edit: sorry I reread and realized I wasn't talking to the OP. But my responses would be the same. Great thread that a lot of readers will learn from.

I agree, I've been looking for a better excuse for a 3rd function on the loader than angling my SSQA plow. Unfortunately I haven't found it yet. Not motivated to plumb in a diverter to my curl circuit as I'm not sure if it has power dump instead of just regen dump. Regen would mess with single acting cylinders poorly.

 

[aeblank]

Super super crude (Dimensions aren't really right even), but this is my mockup....

Goals are to fully utilize the 6" of travel, using existing stops.
Make mounting easy.
Make mounting template, perhaps.
make parts list/instructions.

I've inquired with the linear actuator people, and for an extra $100 ($248 & 15 business days) they could make an actuator with the length required. That would make it bolt-in instead of having to make some sort of extension. I'm not sure that it makes sense yet, but its doable.
It would seem for $300-ish, this could be a professional-looking kit to be installed.

Food for thought......

 

[Fallon]

Super super crude (Dimensions aren't really right even), but this is my mockup....

Goals are to fully utilize the 6" of travel, using existing stops.
Make mounting easy.
Make mounting template, perhaps.
make parts list/instructions.

I've inquired with the linear actuator people, and for an extra $100 ($248 & 15 business days) they could make an actuator with the length required. That would make it bolt-in instead of having to make some sort of extension. I'm not sure that it makes sense yet, but its doable.
It would seem for $300-ish, this could be a professional-looking kit to be installed.

Food for thought......

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=418481"/>

While the SSQA interface is a standard, as far as I know latches, levers & pivot points, bolt/bushing sizes are not. I think somebody said Kiotis only have 1 lever. That would make a universal solution a lot harder.

For my Kubota the right length actuator wouldn't help much. You need a bracket on each end to attach to the bolts that attach to the pins. Cheaper to use some extra bar stock or all-thread than $100 for the custom actuator.

I thought about trying to mount to the ends of the handles, but I don't think the rotational movement of the handles would match up with the linear movement of the actuator. You might be able to to mount the actuator vertically or something to both handles, but that uses 2 actuators or gets to complex as well.