John Deere 4600 - no bucket tilt function??

[Willus]

Hello all.. I have a John Deere 4600 w/460 loader.. I was fixing the road today and lost bucket tilt function dumping gravel..
1) fluid good..
2) engauge tilt, hoses jump and bucket moves slightly..
3) Swapped quick connects and lift function works w/tilt function but bucket doesn't tilt w/lift function..
4)Tilt cylinders have no external leaks..
5) If i do have a bad tilt cylinder can i hold function and should 1 cylinder get warmer then the other?? Or is there another way to check without gauges??
I think i'm in the right direction but i know there are people out there that have been thru this and may reinsure me if you know what i mean.. Anything will help tractor wants to get back to work.. Thanks everyone, Willus

 

[Willus]

Just wanted to post what i found today if anyone would like to know.. I let tractor warm up and kept on engauging the tilt up function several times (because bucket was in the down position) The right cylinder got warm on both sides of the pistonand the left did not change in temp at all.. So thats telling me that fluid is bypassing the seals.. Just ordered rebuild kits (going to do both tilt cylinders)
Now i have to do some reading to see how to remove the end caps.. I've done screw on caps and the spanner caps but not this type.. It has a snap ring on the outside.. Looks like you remove it and push the cap into the cylinder but after that not sure whats next yet.. If anyone has rebuilt this type of cylinder and could give me any info - do's and don't that would be great.. Thanks, Willus

 

[dcyrilc]

Seems to me that I read a thread where someone was rebuilding one of those a few months back. Try a search and see if you have any luck finding something.

Oh, and Welcome to TBN! I'm suprised no-one has responded yet. You should hear something soon, but give the search a try anyway. Lots of great info here on TBN. One word of caution though, doing very much searching and reading on here can become addictive.

 

[kennyd]

Willus, welcome-sorry I missed your thread. Take a look at this thread and see if it helps: JD Hydraulic Cylinder Rebuild Help? - TractorByNet.com

 

[Willus]

dryrilc thanks for the welcome and your right this form is addicting.. lots of good info and not enough beer.. lol

Kennyd thanks for the link.. Makes sence with that wire clip inside the tube.. I'm getting the kits friday and will post on how things went.. Maybe to help others rebuilding this type of cylinder i'll take pictures or do a youtube video on how i went thru everything above.. Thanks to all again, Willus

 

[kennyd]

dryrilc thanks for the welcome and your right this form is addicting.. lots of good info and not enough beer.. lol

Kennyd thanks for the link.. Makes sence with that wire clip inside the tube.. I'm getting the kits friday and will post on how things went.. Maybe to help others rebuilding this type of cylinder i'll take pictures or do a youtube video on how i went thru everything above.. Thanks to all again, Willus

Your welcome, any question lemme know

 

[Willus]

Sorry all for not posting to this thread sooner.. I pulled cylinder off to rebuild it and come to find out nut stripped off of the rod.. Arr.. Wounder why i had no tilt function.. lol I've been brush hoggin and haven't needed the bucket so i haven't done anything yet.. (Till i get stuck and need the bucket to get out)
But anyway my thought is to rethread down to the next size.. OE seems to be 3/4" so hopefully a metric size will be close enough to clean it up.. Hopefull no one bashes me for doing this.. A new cylinder is $550ish and the rod is $240ish.. So if it works i have $50 in parts and my own time.. I'll let everyone know once i pick up my first full bucket..

 

[Ken]

Thanks for all the information of lift cyl. problems and repair methods.
I have asked for a answer to my JD 4520 breaking a steel line to curl function of hay fork on and old post for 4320 line break. then reading farther found this posting of cyls.
Quick explaination of problem. the port 1 line at seam blew out lifting a 180 wheel weight. and replacing the line would not work at all. the quick connect coupler would not pass oil. replaced and now all functions work except the bucket curl drifts down reasonably quick have to keep lifting the forks when empty of load or loaded. Reading this message posts realized must have a lift cyl with a leaking seal.
So know method to get correct numbers and order from dealer the kits will get both cyl. and with my experance will replace the side that is not leaking first.
Again thanks for all the information of past posts.
ken

 

[J_J]

Ken, You said:

with my experience will replace the side that is not leaking first.


What kind of logic is that. Why not replace the one that is leaking if you can determine that. There is no reason to think that another similar cyl will leak, and it might last three times as long as the other one. There is no law that says that two cyl used on the same machine must fail together. Fix the broke one, and when the other one fails, then fix it.

 

[Ken]

Ken, You said:

with my experience will replace the side that is not leaking first.


What kind of logic is that. Why not replace the one that is leaking if you can determine that. There is no reason to think that another similar cyl will leak, and it might last three times as long as the other one. There is no law that says that two cyl used on the same machine must fail together. Fix the broke one, and when the other one fails, then fix it.

J J This was written at around 4 this morning. and had a short night last night. What I was thinking was which ever side I repair first it will be the other that is leaking. Always lose when it is 50/50 chance.
This failure happened after over 4 hours of lifting bails of hay around 950 lbs each. then was going to move a set of wheel weights of 180 lbs. and the metal line in a bend blew. Now know why the hydrolics are under the work platform. loud bang and oil everywhere.
Quick disconnect coupling would not pass oil so replaced. tractor is working just forks drop down engine running or off.
ken

 

[J_J]

To determine the good cyl, remove the hoses from one of the cyl , and cap the hoses. If the cylinders are fully retracted, pull the levers to retract. A good cyl will go into relief. A leaking cyl may not go into relief. If the cyl you are testing is good, it will hold in place. A bad cyl will bypass internally. If you have a hyd gage, you can see the results.

About the only reason I can think of why a QD would not pass fluid with good pressure, is that it uncoupled somehow, and maybe instant high pressure blew the metal line. Did the FEL valve go into relief before that happened. External forces can sometimes generate more force than the hyd pump, such as running the bucket into something, or jerking a heavy load.

 

[Ken]

To determine the good cyl, remove the hoses from one of the cyl , and cap the hoses. If the cylinders are fully retracted, pull the levers to retract. A good cyl will go into relief. A leaking cyl may not go into relief. If the cyl you are testing is good, it will hold in place. A bad cyl will bypass internally. If you have a hyd gage, you can see the results.

About the only reason I can think of why a QD would not pass fluid with good pressure, is that it uncoupled somehow, and maybe instant high pressure blew the metal line. Did the FEL valve go into relief before that happened. External forces can sometimes generate more force than the hyd pump, such as running the bucket into something, or jerking a heavy load.

J J the tractor with forks was lifting a set of weights about 180 lbs. forks were about 2 feet off the ground. when the engine loaded down and then metal line blew the tractor was not moving. After replacing the metal line fluid would not pass through the coupler
loosend metal line to the coupler and had flow. took the part connecting to hose off and connected this part into the coupler still no flow could not see a problem so took to j.D. dealer purchased new these work as supposed to. Then noticed the forks were drooping downward with engine off or running. As to the FEL going into bypass I cannot remember but there was no time difference between noticing engine loading down and line bursting.
Will be a couple of days before checking farther when repacking kit comes in. ken

 

[kennyd]

Do them in pairs, just like tires, headlights, brakes, windshield wipers...they have both been in service the same amount of time.

 

[Ken]

Do them in pairs, just like tires, headlights, brakes, windshield wipers...they have both been in service the same amount of time.

Thanks Kennyd This is my plan will do J J s checks to determine which is the leaking cyl. but while repairing planned on doing both. Just was surprised the light load and bursting line.
Noticed a site starting in '08 had a good explanation of the problem think you were part of it.
760 hours in 2 1/2 years almost no problems think this 4520 and 400x FEL a good tractor.
ken

 

[Ken]

To determine the good cyl, remove the hoses from one of the cyl , and cap the hoses. If the cylinders are fully retracted, pull the levers to retract. A good cyl will go into relief. A leaking cyl may not go into relief. If the cyl you are testing is good, it will hold in place. A bad cyl will bypass internally. If you have a hyd gage, you can see the results.

About the only reason I can think of why a QD would not pass fluid with good pressure, is that it uncoupled somehow, and maybe instant high pressure blew the metal line. Did the FEL valve go into relief before that happened. External forces can sometimes generate more force than the hyd pump, such as running the bucket into something, or jerking a heavy load.

J J The parts came in and did as suggested the left cyl. was leaking so replaced the seals and put all back togather seems good again. Only have one question. The nut on end of the rod was loose by maybe 2 turns. I tightened it to 100 lb. torgue.
Rechecked the QD connectors The male end will not pass fluid. ball retracts but is plugged.
Haven't checked further.
Thanks for your help as well as the others suggestions.
ken

 

[DIGnVT]

This past week I rebuilt a bucket cylinder on my JD 110 TLB. My first attempt at such a thing. I took pictures which I will forward as soon as I get home and download them from my camera. After removing the snap ring, you have to push the rod guide/cap into the cylinder (very counter intuitive). On mine it went in relatively easy for the first 3/8 of an inch, after that I slowly worked it with a drift punch. You will see a groove in the cylinder wall. Use the orange, split and beveled nylon ring that is in the kit to fill the groove. After the ring is in place use the rod like a slide hammer against the base of the guide/cap and it will slide out. I was surprised how easy it came out. I replaced the seals one at a time. Reassembled and found no leaks, went back to work.
I will post the pics tonight. Any questions let me know and I will try to help. Keep in mind hydraulic repair is not my full time job.

 

[J_J]

J J The parts came in and did as suggested the left cyl. was leaking so replaced the seals and put all back togather seems good again. Only have one question. The nut on end of the rod was loose by maybe 2 turns. I tightened it to 100 lb. torgue.
Rechecked the QD connectors The male end will not pass fluid. ball retracts but is plugged.
Haven't checked further.
Thanks for your help as well as the others suggestions.
ken

Did you unscrew the QD from the hose and then plug it back in and put in a bucket and see if it will pass fluid. Replace the QD if it is bad. Some of the QD manufactures offer a kit to rebuild the QD fittings..

 

[Ken]

Did you unscrew the QD from the hose and then plug it back in and put in a bucket and see if it will pass fluid. Replace the QD if it is bad. Some of the QD manufactures offer a kit to rebuild the QD fittings..

The QD was Jd orginial and did as you suggest. no flow. so was replaced. relooking at male tip seems to maybe not being released when fully seated. it is now sitting on bench will look later when time is slower.
Thanks for your help.
ken

 

[Barrybarry45]

Today my John Deere 460 loader stopped tilting. It seems locked in the up position. It will tilt down about an inch and then lock up. It will not go down any further. But it will come back up to full upright. The Cylinders will travel about an inch. They are not leaking and there is no visible problem. No lines leaking. Can't see anything caught in the tilt mechanism. When tilting down, it will move only about an inch and then it stops and you hear the tractor load up trying to tilt it further. It still lifts and descends just fine, it just won't tilt. I don't know much about lifts, etc so this is totally baffling to me. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[kennyd]

Today my John Deere 460 loader stopped tilting. It seems locked in the up position. It will tilt down about an inch and then lock up. It will not go down any further. But it will come back up to full upright. The Cylinders will travel about an inch. They are not leaking and there is no visible problem. No lines leaking. Can't see anything caught in the tilt mechanism. When tilting down, it will move only about an inch and then it stops and you hear the tractor load up trying to tilt it further. It still lifts and descends just fine, it just won't tilt. I don't know much about lifts, etc so this is totally baffling to me. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome. Unplug the four QD's (quick disconnects), clean and then re-connect them. This takes care of 99% of the "my loader won't XXXX problems.