T273 Glow Plug Timer?

TYMinColton · Feb 18, 2015

Hi all,

Been awhile, but I'm back. I'm the proud owner of a TYM273 tractor (circa 2005). About 6 months back I developed some trouble with the glow plug system. When I turn the key to the left (position 3), the glow plug "coil" indicator fails to light, and more importantly I no longer hear the timer ticking. These little L3 engines are a pain in the neck to start without preheating the block. I was able to confirm that the 15A fuse for the glow plug system is intact, though I also noted that when I place a voltmeter across the fuse terminals I don't register any voltage, even if I turn the key to supposedly activate the glow plugs (symptom? problem?). I also confirmed that the slow blow 75A fuse is also fine. Based on these symptoms I suspect that either the glow plug timer has died, or perhaps the glow plug relay? I pulled the relay - this is the little do-dad in-line just in front of the battery. See attached pics if you've never seen the relay before (I'm a visual guy). Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to determine if it's the problem. I have contacted a dealer, and I'm waiting on replacement part pricing, but I'm wondering if this is just a timer issue. Has anyone encountered and/or fixed a similar problem? As many of you noted the wiring diagram in the service manual is pretty poor. I'm just not sure if the relay is in front of the timer, behind it, or both. I'm willing to tear into the dash, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for exactly.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Pete

TYMinColton · Feb 18, 2015

Quick followup:

I just got off the phone with a TYM dealer, and service provider in Idaho. He indicated that the "timer" sound is actually the fuel pump and that the glow plug timer is silent. He also indicated that the usual failure point for the glow plug system in these tractors is the relay. It's a pretty standard relay you can get a NAPA (part no. AR282). So, I'm going to pick one up over lunch and see if this doesn't address the problem.

More shortly.
P

Bud Soda · Feb 18, 2015

It is just a standard really you can get from a local electronic parts store or online. I had to take mine apart one time because I sprayed water in it and had to clean the contact points.

TYMinColton · Feb 18, 2015

Ugh. . apparently wasn't the relay. Replaced and still no lit coil on the dash cluster and the glow plugs are presumably off. I did checked every 10, 15, and 20 amp fuses in the box outside the firewall and they are all fine. I also didn't see anything obvious (crimping, corrosion) in the wiring leading from the relay back to the dash. Popped the steering wheel and dash cluster and confirmed that the two main 50A fuses are also fine. I did find a few dash bulbs that were out, but not the bulb related to the coil indicator. Checked the harness wiring, and did find some corrosion on a couple of wires connected to the PTO switch. I taped these up, but everything else looks fine to the naked eye. Next, I was able to confirm that I do get 12V from the ignition switch when I turn it to the glow plug preheat position 3. So, that doesn't appear to be the problem.

So, I decided to look more closely at the glow timer. There are 5 wires leading to/from the glow timer (see attached pic Time Pinout.jpg). From left to right and top to bottom, they are Grn; blank; Blk and BLk/Blu; Blk/Red; Red. What I was hoping to find was some combinations of wires that are only hot for 8 seconds after I turn the ignition to position 3. I did find a wire (green) that is hot (12V) when the ignition switch is in position 3, but it immediately returns to 0V when I release the ignition. Perhaps this is the input voltage? The Blk and Red pair not surprisingly are always registering 12V. So, either this is where the problem lies, or it's something on the glow plug side and the timer is simply not seeing a load.

The crappy thing is I don't have a good wiring diagram to better understand what goes to where and why. At this point I'm working my way towards the glow plugs, but also checking some other issues that have me worried (e.g. fuel pump not making a sound during preheat). So, far I have determined that the fuel pump is at least seeing 12V.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
Pete

TYMinColton · Feb 18, 2015

As a follow-up: Good news and bad.

First the fuel pump:
Good news: I get 12V at the fuel pump connector.
Bad news: If I direct wire from the + terminal of the batter to the fuel pump, back through a lightbulb tester, and ground the bulb lights, but pump does nothing. Dead short?

Now for the glow plugs:
Good news: If I direct wire from my battery through the glow plug strip my bulb lights.

Good/Bad news: When I removed the strip connecting the plugs, plug #2 was literally broken in half! :dance1:
Good/Bad news: When I direct contact with my light tester plug #2 is also bad, but plug #1 is fine! :dance1::dance1:

To summarize: (1) My fuel pump is either bad, which would be somewhat odd since I can still start the tractor (gravity?), very quiet, or I just don't understand how it works

. (2) Two of the three glow plugs are toast. :thumbdown:

I still haven't determined why the timer doesn't seem to be activating, but perhaps it doesn't work if doesn't see the correct load on the glow plug side of the equation.

Thoughts? Comments?
Pete

Btown · Feb 19, 2015

Did u take off the harness and check to see if it will light up your test light. My guess is that it will. If u have a multimeter u can check the glow plugs. I think it should be on ohms and should read between .5-1.1. But all glow plugs should be about the same. If they are not. Then replace the bad ones. My bad ones all read 0.0. Good luck.

TYMinColton · Feb 19, 2015

I haven't had a chance to fully test the wiring harness, assuming this is what you are referring to. Though it's not some I can take off. What I can do is test for connectivity (open vs closed) from the timer to the relay and relay to the glow plugs.

I haven't checked the resistance of the two unbroken plugs but will do so. There was quite a bit of rust and corrosion on the plug terminals due to mouse pee. Probably led to failure.

Still digging but thanks for the advice
Pete

TYMinColton · Feb 19, 2015

Definitely need glow plugs. Was quoted $40 a piece. That seems pretty expensive. On another thread Jaln generously listed a bunch of cross-listed options. Anyone know if you can get any of these from a local Autoparts store?

CHAMPION CH144
EIKO GF-118
HKT PM79
kubota 15204-6551-1
MITSUBISHI 30666-57301
MITSUBISHI MM401621
NGK Y-110
NGK Y-114T

PILOON · Feb 19, 2015

Search glow plugs on EBay and you will get hits.

NKG should be available at auto parts as long as you have the correct numbers.

TYMinColton · Feb 21, 2015

She's dead Jim. . .

Removed the cover. . . well more accurately destroyed the cover. I took a picture of the components on an old school bread board and it's pretty obvious that the timer is dead. Measured several resistors that are now open, and at least one cap that's bad too. Even if I was able to replace the components, which I'm not since they're embedded in epoxy, it'd probably cost me more in parts than the replacement at $40. The crappy thing is the part is designed to be sealed, but yet there is a pretty large hole near the blade connector. Oregon moisture (or mouse pee) clearly got inside and corroded the parts.

Bummer. . .
P

Bud Soda · Feb 21, 2015

TYMinColton said:
She's dead Jim. . .
View attachment 413202

Removed the cover. . . well more accurately destroyed the cover. I took a picture of the components on an old school bread board and it's pretty obvious that the timer is dead. Measured several resistors that are now open, and at least one cap that's bad too. Even if I was able to replace the components, which I'm not since they're embedded in epoxy, it'd probably cost me more in parts than the replacement at $40. The crappy thing is the part is designed to be sealed, but yet there is a pretty large hole near the blade connector. Oregon moisture (or mouse pee) clearly got inside and corroded the parts.

Bummer. . .
P

Do you have the part # handy in case I ever need one?
Thanks

TYMinColton · Feb 21, 2015

Bud Soda said:
Do you have the part # handy in case I ever need one?
Thanks

Indeed I do. As listed in the TYM parts catalog (PM me if you need a PDF copy):
Timer, Glow Part No: 16626692100 (it's also stamped on the component for convenience)

I did search around for cross-listed alternatives, but couldn't find any. Based on the Korean writing on the part, I'm guessing it's probably a custom part.

Pete

CalG · Feb 21, 2015

TYMinColton said:
As a follow-up: Good news and bad.

First the fuel pump:
Good news: I get 12V at the fuel pump connector.
Bad news: If I direct wire from the + terminal of the batter to the fuel pump, back through a lightbulb tester, and ground the bulb lights, but pump does nothing. Dead short?

Now for the glow plugs:
Good news: If I direct wire from my battery through the glow plug strip my bulb lights.
Good/Bad news: When I removed the strip connecting the plugs, plug #2 was literally broken in half! :dance1:
Good/Bad news: When I direct contact with my light tester plug #2 is also bad, but plug #1 is fine! :dance1::dance1:

To summarize: (1) My fuel pump is either bad, which would be somewhat odd since I can still start the tractor (gravity?), very quiet, or I just don't understand how it works . (2) Two of the three glow plugs are toast. :thumbdown:

I still haven't determined why the timer doesn't seem to be activating, but perhaps it doesn't work if doesn't see the correct load on the glow plug side of the equation.

Thoughts? Comments?
Pete

Just a "gotcha"? You say "through a light bulb tester", That is NOT a dead short, unless I have your set up pictured incorrectly. "Through" implies a series connection. The bulb provides a fixed resistance. I would not expect a 12V pump motor to run if it also needed to light a bulb unless the bulb were 500W or so.

As said, I may have your set up pictured wrong.

TYMinColton · Feb 21, 2015

I referred to it as a dead short as opposed to an open circuit. In otherwords when the pump is in series with the lightbulb it completed the circuit but does not operate. I too thought this might be because I wasn't placing sufficient load, but I've now talked to a couple of mechanics who are convinced that the pump should run with out an external load. guess I'll find out when my new pump arrives.
Make sense? I think we're saying the same thing.
Pete

robstaples · Feb 22, 2015

TYMinColton said:
I referred to it as a dead short as opposed to an open circuit. In otherwords when the pump is in series with the lightbulb it completed the circuit but does not operate. I too thought this might be because I wasn't placing sufficient load, but I've now talked to a couple of mechanics who are convinced that the pump should run with out an external load. guess I'll find out when my new pump arrives.
Make sense? I think we're saying the same thing.
Pete

First... trying to help... In a series circuit, of a light bulb and a pump, if the light is fully lit, the pump is passing current and doing no work. Measure the voltage drop across the pump, I'd expect near zero. It is acting like a wire. All the 12 volt "work" is being used by the light. Test: for a 12 v pump, put direct from the battery 12v on it. Motors usually fail open ( burned up brushes or melted armature wire)

TYMinColton · Feb 22, 2015

Sorry. Didn't mean to sound ungrateful. I'm actually not measuring the voltage drop over the pump but probably could. However, the circuit it wouldn't be complete if the pump died open. I have also direct wired the pump to the battery and it still doesn't run. Not sure what happened but I'm coming to find a lot of electrical components corroded by the oregon rain forest. Bummer.

dayjd1 · Mar 1, 2015

Just went through pretty much the same scenario with my 2007 TYM273 .... You're absolutely right they don't start in cold sub zero weather especially if all your glow plugs (3) are bad. I purchased mine in late 2012 with 240 hours on it. Fron the "get go" it was very difficult to start. I hired a tractor mechanic to take a look at it. He got it started but it took a spray if starter fluid to get it up ad running. He changed all the filters, oil, and installed a inline coolant circulator / heater. This helped greatly but still had problems starting on occasion. I ended up removing the glow plugs and testing them with a 12volt jump starter. Two out if the three glow plugs were bad. Ordered new plugs from Keno Tractor in Oregon (I think) from their web site. Three of them shipped was about $70.00. This year (For the last couple months) I have used the 273 for my snow removal needs (Maine winters) but the starting problem had returned. At first I thought it was the fuel gelling / did find some ice in my fuel filter. Changed filter, added Power service and 911. Still would start. Charged and couple times. Still no start so I purchased a new battery charger with a much higher jump start rating. Yep! Still no start. Pulled the air intake filters off and sprayed a small amount of starting fluid with upper chamber lubricant and it starts right up. Now I'm thinking maybe all it needs is to run for a while and maybe my problem is over? Nope! It started warm but once the engine cooled it would not start. This time I found the inline heater I had install a couple years earlier wasn't working. So for a month I resulted to pulling off the air filter and using starting fluid which was a pain in the butt also very uncomfortable using staring fluid with the glow plugs. I was beginning to think my fuel pump may of been the culprit but it ran great once it started. I haven't been on this forum for nearly two years so I came on searching for the glow plug number. From the search I found a thread that mentioned jump starting the engine with a charger higher than 12 volts could burn out the glow plugs .....! Went out and pulled my glow plugs and all three were dead. Must say I had could not find them anywhere based on the old mitsubishi glow plug number but a local Mahindra dealer (To his surprise) was able to cross reference it to a Mahindra glow plug .... 32A66-03102 but had to pay about $35.00 a piece for them. Turns out that price wasn't that bad from a internet search but Keno Tractor was the best price I could find at $30.00 each. The 273 is now starting beautifully ... I hope. 15 below last night so we'll see soon but it started great last night! :>)

Bud Soda · Mar 1, 2015

dayjd1 said:
Just went through pretty much the same scenario with my 2007 TYM273 .... You're absolutely right they don't start in cold sub zero weather especially if all your glow plugs (3) are bad. I purchased mine in late 2012 with 240 hours on it. Fron the "get go" it was very difficult to start. I hired a tractor mechanic to take a look at it. He got it started but it took a spray if starter fluid to get it up ad running. He changed all the filters, oil, and installed a inline coolant circulator / heater. This helped greatly but still had problems starting on occasion. I ended up removing the glow plugs and testing them with a 12volt jump starter. Two out if the three glow plugs were bad. Ordered new plugs from Keno Tractor in Oregon (I think) from their web site. Three of them shipped was about $70.00. This year (For the last couple months) I have used the 273 for my snow removal needs (Maine winters) but the starting problem had returned. At first I thought it was the fuel gelling / did find some ice in my fuel filter. Changed filter, added Power service and 911. Still would start. Charged and couple times. Still no start so I purchased a new battery charger with a much higher jump start rating. Yep! Still no start. Pulled the air intake filters off and sprayed a small amount of starting fluid with upper chamber lubricant and it starts right up. Now I'm thinking maybe all it needs is to run for a while and maybe my problem is over? Nope! It started warm but once the engine cooled it would not start. This time I found the inline heater I had install a couple years earlier wasn't working. So for a month I resulted to pulling off the air filter and using starting fluid which was a pain in the butt also very uncomfortable using staring fluid with the glow plugs. I was beginning to think my fuel pump may of been the culprit but it ran great once it started. I haven't been on this forum for nearly two years so I came on searching for the glow plug number. From the search I found a thread that mentioned jump starting the engine with a charger higher than 12 volts could burn out the glow plugs .....! Went out and pulled my glow plugs and all three were dead. Must say I had could not find them anywhere based on the old mitsubishi glow plug number but a local Mahindra dealer (To his surprise) was able to cross reference it to a Mahindra glow plug .... 32A66-03102 but had to pay about $35.00 a piece for them. Turns out that price wasn't that bad from a internet search but Keno Tractor was the best price I could find at $30.00 each. The 273 is now starting beautifully ... I hope. 15 below last night so we'll see soon but it started great last night! :>)

I have not had to change mine but this seems to be a cross> Amazon.com: NGK (6528) Y114T Glow Plug, Pack of 1: Automotive

dayjd1 · Mar 1, 2015

Excellent info on the 273 glow plugs plus unbeatable price! Thank you!

TYMinColton · Mar 2, 2015

Yup. bud's got it right. I ended up ordering 3 Y114T glowplugs. I haven't had a chance to install them, but they're nearly identical. Huge savings over OEM.