The Ugly undeniable Truth

[kcflhrc]

Looks to me like more fishing areas

 

[Mace Canute]

Photos of Alaska: Then And Now. This is A Get Ready to Be Shocked When You See What it Looks Like Now.


And yet many people still don't believe in the observable Climate Change Facts. Shame on you ! :thumbdown:

It's even more shocking when you realize what it looked like waaay back then...

 

[SirReal63]

The cure to man made global warming is to stop the government from giving money out to those who support it.
Eddie

100% agree. The real undeniable Truth is that the planet has been going through a cyclical climate change since the beginning of time, and will for the rest of eternity. The Earth's orbit around the sun is not a consistent orbit, the path varies and over time the Earth is closer to the Sun, and other times it is farther away from the Sun. Is Humanity adding to the change, probably, are we the sole cause, not a chance, are we going to be able to stop the climate change that has been going on forever, not going to happen. The current mess of climate change is no different than when we were kids and the Earth was going into an Ice Age, and that will happen again, at some point in time just as the Earth is in a warming trend right now.

It was once taught in school that the Earth's climate has never been stable and that there have been numerous warming and cooling periods. I am not sure if that is still being taught or if the overall goal is the dumbing down of people to the point where any agenda can be pushed and the general population isn't educated enough to know when they are being duped. One look at a current High School textbook with a quick comparison to one from the 50's tends to show that the Dumbing down of America is in full swing.

 

[wawajake]

I would post pictures of what Greenland looked like a few centuries back, but the ice age has not receded enough yet to show the farming and wildlife there back then. I guess when the earth gets Greenland back to that stage we will be back to normal.
I find it so silly to attempt to blame global warming on mankind when before we had cars it was far warmer.
and considering the man made CO2 is just a fraction of total greenhouse gases that have impact........we are wasting money and resources that could be better spent just adapting to the climate whichever way it goes. And Any money we convince our governments to waste on this is money they could of even used for healthcare to save tangible real lives now..........not cute polar bears that just move up the coast and adjust (as the Inuit in Canada are confirming is occurring.

 

[dave1949]

100% agree. The real undeniable Truth is that the planet has been going through a cyclical climate change since the beginning of time, and will for the rest of eternity. The Earth's orbit around the sun is not a consistent orbit, the path varies and over time the Earth is closer to the Sun, and other times it is farther away from the Sun. Is Humanity adding to the change, probably, are we the sole cause, not a chance, are we going to be able to stop the climate change that has been going on forever, not going to happen. The current mess of climate change is no different than when we were kids and the Earth was going into an Ice Age, and that will happen again, at some point in time just as the Earth is in a warming trend right now.

It was once taught in school that the Earth's climate has never been stable and that there have been numerous warming and cooling periods. I am not sure if that is still being taught or if the overall goal is the dumbing down of people to the point where any agenda can be pushed and the general population isn't educated enough to know when they are being duped. One look at a current High School textbook with a quick comparison to one from the 50's tends to show that the Dumbing down of America is in full swing.

Of course the climate is always changing and there is no long term stability. No one has ever said otherwise. The difference comes in how long is long term and what is the difference in the impact on people alive now and in the following couple of generations?

The climate drivers you mention take place over thousands and millions of years. There will be short term aberrations such as the Little Ice Age caused by an very powerful volcano, or the result of space object colliding with Earth, but those are rare and widely survivable for the most part. Those are events we truly can do nothing about with current technology and knowledge. It's pointless to compare those types of events with fossil fuel greenhouse gas production which is totally under our control.

Man-made climate change is happening on a scale of decades and half centuries; the scale of a human lifetime. It is having and will have rather immediate impacts on the current populations compared to something that happens over thousands of years. You are comparing apples and oranges when you ignore the pace of change.

I cannot count how many times this difference has been explained yet deniers keep repeating the same mantra--climate has always changed. I would think they would catch on eventually, if they wanted to that is. Deniers clearly do not want to.

Those changes will last a long time; CO2 persists in the atmosphere for hundreds of, perhaps a thousand, years. It is not going to clear up on its own in 10-20 years like volcano particulate ash.

 

[motownbrowne]

What gets me is that the vast majority of politicians making the laws that could really affect the climate crisis are over 65. That probably goes for a lot of you climate change deniers too. I'm 28. I'm gonna be here a lot longer than you guys and the politicians you've been voting in. You guys made your mark, ramped up consumption, industry, and toxic emissions in the name of progress, even though the dollar bills only went into a few pockets.

Well, as someone who is part of the generation that's gonna have to clean try to clean this mess up, let me say "thanks a lot". You guys spilled oil in our rivers and sounds, washed away our soil, and generally cashed in on our resources. If you want to sit around and talk about how climate change isn't real because you think it's colder right now where you live, that's fine, I could care less. But when younger folks finally get the littlest bit of political clout and try to do something about it, do me a favor. Step aside. You've had your run. It was grand. Hopefully you saved enough to retire and buy a cabin on the lake. Now it's our turn. We'll wait till you die off if we have to, but if you would be kind enough to give us a tiny head start, we'd really appreciate it. Maybe your great great grandkids would too.

Thanks.

 

[dave1949]

What gets me is that the vast majority of politicians making the laws that could really affect the climate crisis are over 65. That probably goes for a lot of you climate change deniers too. I'm 28. I'm gonna be here a lot longer than you guys and the politicians you've been voting in. You guys made your mark, ramped up consumption, industry, and toxic emissions in the name of progress, even though the dollar bills only went into a few pockets.

Well, as someone who is part of the generation that's gonna have to clean try to clean this mess up, let me say "thanks a lot". You guys spilled oil in our rivers and sounds, washed away our soil, and generally cashed in on our resources. If you want to sit around and talk about how climate change isn't real because you think it's colder right now where you live, that's fine, I could care less. But when younger folks finally get the littlest bit of political clout and try to do something about it, do me a favor. Step aside. You've had your run. It was grand. Hopefully you saved enough to retire and buy a cabin on the lake. Now it's our turn. We'll wait till you die off if we have to, but if you would be kind enough to give us a tiny head start, we'd really appreciate it. Maybe your great great grandkids would too.

Thanks.

I was discussing this very thing with my 40 year-old son. I asked where is the passion to work on these issues that are really non-issues to that group? He also said they are waiting for the old folks to die off. :laughing:

Fair enough but I do wish the young folks would understand the value of voting in every election. You may not get rid of some of the more obnoxious politicians but you can isolate them to the point of irrelevance. As it stands now, the 20-40 year-olds are forfeiting the "game" by not showing up.

 

[dodge man]

I question if we even have to data to say temps are changing. How long have we been tracking temps in a accurate way in the U.S. 100 years maybe. Even if its a 150 years, that's a pretty short time period.

 

[motownbrowne]

I was discussing this very thing with my 40 year-old son. I asked where is the passion to work on these issues that are really non-issues to that group? He also said they are waiting for the old folks to die off. :laughing:

Fair enough but I do wish the young folks would understand the value of voting in every election. You may not get rid of some of the more obnoxious politicians but you can isolate them to the point of irrelevance. As it stands now, the 20-40 year-olds are forfeiting the "game" by not showing up.

I agree Dave. Many eligible voters in my generation aren't helping the equation. In part I understand where they're coming from. It's tough to have to choose to vote again and again for the candidate that represents the "lesser of two evils". I, and I think many of my peers, think they are all a bunch of money hungry crooks. Also, Dave, while you may be included in the demographic that I described earlier, I always appreciate reading your posts on here. Sometimes I feel outnumbered on this forum, and it's nice to have some other dissenting voices in the fray.

 

[motownbrowne]

I question if we even have to data to say temps are changing. How long have we been tracking temps in a accurate way in the U.S. 100 years maybe. Even if its a 150 years, that's a pretty short time period.

No, that's not the question. Who cares? If climate change is fake and we end up reducing our emissions and dependance on oil and coal while increasing the fuel economy of the cars we drive, so what? If it's real, and we manage to mitigate the symptoms a little bit and maybe get to enjoy a few more generations of humanity on this planet, GREAT!

Yeah, yeah, maybe it'll cost us a few dollars to solve to problem. Seriously, though, the way money moves around at the top right now, we could go a long way toward solving the problem without having to pass the collection hat to every Tom, Dick, and Harry. If the top 1% of financial holders in the world (the guys who've been making all of the real return on the resources we've been pawning off) all stepped up to the plate for once, we could get somewhere pretty quick.

 

[Mace Canute]

As long as the population of the earth continues to grow and as long as people continue to expand their standard of living we will have an increase in the global output of CO2. It is impossible to have it otherwise unless you are willing to go back to a rather austere way of life. Have you ever thought about the huge number of industries that are not needed for our survival? What about all the stuff we buy that are "wants" and not "needs"? Even the production of needed products could be drastically changed to eliminate the constant replacement of poor quality items and to eliminate all the little "add ons" that are enhancements to the items we do need. Look at all the selections in the supermarket that are above and beyond our needs for nutrition. If you stopped using all the unnecessary stuff we have what would happen to the people whose jobs depend on their production? Next time you encounter an AGW proponent consider what they have in their life that is totally unneeded and ask them why they haven't given them up yet...

 

[turnkey4099]

Oh my gosh! Is it just me, or are everyone of those locations more beautiful now than before?

To your point: "Most" people won't argue against the concept of "climate change." What they argue against is that it is "man made" climate change. Yes, in some areas, the earth is warming. So?

Do you believe cave men drove too many SUVs and killed the dinosaurs? Do you think alien spacecraft are responsible for repetitious ice ages? Unless you can answer why ice ages have come and gone - the unfounded charges of "man made" climate change are ludicrous.

The earth changes. Get over it.

We reakists will "get over it" the day you can point to a past time in the history of the earth where the warming has proceeded so rapidly.

No, man is not the sole cause be he is contributing greatly to a naturel warming period.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

Location, location, location.

Let me guess, the pictures were taken in the Arctic, right? Meanwhile, the Anarctic ice is growing significantly.

As usual, the "sky is falling" advocates have to cherry pick their biased data sources.

The usual lie. The AREA of sea ice is growing - that is a thin layer compared to the continent. TOTAL ice down there is decreasing.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

What people think about Al, or his carbon footprint, is not going to change the chemistry of carbon and is irrelevant to the outcome.

And Gore is old news. I haven't seen anything of him in the GW area in years.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

The earth's climate changes all the time as the weather patterns change. How do you think we got oil reserves in the frozen arctic. It was once a tropical jungle but it changed to frozen snow grounds. It will change back someday just as it has before, thankfully it is a slow process so we humans can adapt if we don't kill each other in the meantime.
We as humans might be able to slow it down by a day or two but it will still change. Mother earth can put more carbon (CO2) into the air in a few hours from volcanic eruptions than all humans can in a year. Sure we add to the problem, but we aren't the problem. Climate changes occur at a frequent schedule without human intervention, so stop worrying yourself about what damage we are doing because we aren't going to change anything. It is going to happen regardless of the human role.

Volcanoes are a natural part of the environment and Ma Nature adusted to that input years ago. She is now adjusting to out ADDED input by increasing the speed of warming.

truth be told, I don't think we CAN do anything about our input. Maybe decrease it a few percentage points but make a significant downgrade? Nope.

Harry K

 

[SirReal63]

I suspect that if this were 1970 some if you would be supporting the then trendy science of the coming ice age. Like so many trendy issues there isn't enough data or fact to understand with certainty what has or will happen.

I certainly believe the Earth is warming but I don't believe it is just a man made issue, though our activities can contribute this warming and cooling has always been with us and we really do not know what the real frequency has been. Scientists are as clueless today as they were in Columbus's day.

 

[turnkey4099]

My problem with the entire global warming thing is the experts say they know, like its fact. Is it possible the earth is warming up long term, yes. Is it possible man is the problem, yes. Do the experts know this for a fact, no. I still remember a friend of mine giving a talk in one of my classes in school. This would have been early 1970's, and his talk was on global cooling and the next ice age coming soon. That's what the experts were saying just 40 years ago.

Standard lie. No experts were saying that. All the reports and discussions were in the poplar press, no climatologist ever bought into it.

Harry K

 

[wawajake]

You have to laugh when the climate warming alarmists ...state so what if we are wrong, its 'only a few dollars" and it helps get us of fossil fuels. Except it is not a "few dollars" ...its billions of dollars wasted and false carbon trading economies being pushed that will eventually be exposed as being worse fraud than the mortgage fiasco that killed the economy a few years back. So if your wrong and CO2 from cars etc was just a blip compared to other uncontrollable factors, then you cost me and my grandchildren and their grandchildren an economy that actually has jobs and hopes. ...besides its all moot anyway China just got the greenlight from USA President to continue as normal until 2030 ...........building coall fired plants , probably using coal that is mined from USA ...so our little gas powered car impact is peanuts compared to China and we can do absolutley ZERO about them and even best case North America closing down everything would only slow thing down by one degree !!! Whoopie ...so lets just adjust and do our best without panic and silly billion dollar spending! Get the pipelines in place and stop the hypocrisy and panic. At least the oil from Canada is not blood oil like Argentina or Russia or Middle east !

 

[dave1949]

I agree Dave. Many eligible voters in my generation aren't helping the equation. In part I understand where they're coming from. It's tough to have to choose to vote again and again for the candidate that represents the "lesser of two evils". I, and I think many of my peers, think they are all a bunch of money hungry crooks. Also, Dave, while you may be included in the demographic that I described earlier, I always appreciate reading your posts on here. Sometimes I feel outnumbered on this forum, and it's nice to have some other dissenting voices in the fray.

They always have been, right back to some of the Founders who were for the most part, well to do folks. We forget the human side of our country's origins. Sometimes you have to wrestle with pigs.

Thanks for giving me a pass within my demographic cohort. This is a site mostly populated by rural Americans. That is the conservative stronghold and it often is apparent here on TBN. When I need reparative therapy, I look through the reader comments on the NYT's stories.

 

[wawajake]

Standard lie. No experts were saying that. All the reports and discussions were in the poplar press, no climatologist ever bought into it.

Harry K

You obviously did not read our schoolbooks at the time......bet I guess now you will say our school textbooks were written by oil barons not science based..............ya right. As for the age thing , we would move over and make room for the younger generation to change things but they are still living in our basements and playing video games and are so gullible they believe anything a green thinking muscian or actor might state from their popularity pulpit.