50 hour fluid change

[ritcheyvs]

... and decided to change the hydro fluid. The drain plug had a significant number of metal filings on it, around 75% covered and a 1/4 inch high. ...

I found similar metal particles on all magnets when I did the 400 hr hydro oil change on my DK45s gear tractor. This model has magnets on the two big center line drain plugs and one inside the hydraulic filter. The magnets were quite powerful to they extent the made it hard to re-install the plugs. These particles made me wonder if the hydro oil wasn't changed at 50 hours, if they didn't clean the magnets then, or if the transmission is still shedding metal. Hopefully, it's the first possibility because it will be years before I do this job again.

 

[Hill Billy Bob]

I found similar metal particles on all magnets when I did the 400 hr hydro oil change on my DK45s gear tractor. This model has magnets on the two big center line drain plugs and one inside the hydraulic filter. The magnets were quite powerful to they extent the made it hard to re-install the plugs. These particles made me wonder if the hydro oil wasn't changed at 50 hours, if they didn't clean the magnets then, or if the transmission is still shedding metal. Hopefully, it's the first possibility because it will be years before I do this job again.

I don't believe any part of your tractor is fully broken in at the 50 hour mark. I changed just the filter at 50, then the oil and filter at a bit over 300. Magnets were covered, (they are some kind of powerful), but that doesn't mean they quit working. All those bits of metal stuck on there are now magnetized, and will attract and hold more stuff.
It was 5 engine oil changes, on my pickup, before the magnetic drain plug came out clean. (I'm old school, 3000 mile oil change interval).....Just saying that 50 hours isn't much time, and don't believe it's enough to reach a state of total wear in.

 

[Hill Billy Bob]

I found similar metal particles on all magnets when I did the 400 hr hydro oil change on my DK45s gear tractor. This model has magnets on the two big center line drain plugs and one inside the hydraulic filter. The magnets were quite powerful to they extent the made it hard to re-install the plugs. These particles made me wonder if the hydro oil wasn't changed at 50 hours, if they didn't clean the magnets then, or if the transmission is still shedding metal. Hopefully, it's the first possibility because it will be years before I do this job again.

I don't believe any part of your tractor is fully broken in at the 50 hour mark. I changed just the filter at 50, then the oil and filter at a bit over 300. Magnets were covered, (they are some kind of powerful), but that doesn't mean they quit working. All those bits of metal stuck on there are now magnetized, and will attract and hold more stuff.
It was 5 engine oil changes, on my pickup, before the magnetic drain plug came out clean. (I'm old school, 3000 mile oil change interval).....Just saying that 50 hours isn't much time, and don't believe it's enough to reach a state of total wear in.

 

[arrow]

I don't believe any part of your tractor is fully broken in at the 50 hour mark. I changed just the filter at 50, then the oil and filter at a bit over 300. Magnets were covered, (they are some kind of powerful), but that doesn't mean they quit working. All those bits of metal stuck on there are now magnetized, and will attract and hold more stuff.
It was 5 engine oil changes, on my pickup, before the magnetic drain plug came out clean. (I'm old school, 3000 mile oil change interval).....Just saying that 50 hours isn't much time, and don't believe it's enough to reach a state of total wear in.

I had a tractor for 28 years and changed the hydro oil 3 times during the 1600 hrs I used it. There were alway filings in the hydro screen. All it takes on a geared tractor is a couple of gear grinds and you have filings. The most wear on a mechanical component happens at it's beginning of use. May be advantageous to get the early crud out.

 

[KiotiKevin]

I had a tractor for 28 years and changed the hydro oil 3 times during the 1600 hrs I used it. There were alway filings in the hydro screen. All it takes on a geared tractor is a couple of gear grinds and you have filings. The most wear on a mechanical component happens at it's beginning of use. May be advantageous to get the early crud out.

Well thank God I'm not the only one that had shavings on my drain plug and this thread seems quite similar to the one I mentioned in this thread from 10 years earlier. At least we have an idea where they come from. Thanks for the posts guys.
Kevin

 

[murphy1244]

Well thank God I'm not the only one that had shavings on my drain plug and this thread seems quite similar to the one I mentioned in this thread from 10 years earlier. At least we have an idea where they come from. Thanks for the posts guys.
Kevin

I too had filings but NOT shavings. That is a whole new ballgame. Be interested what you find in this machine.
Cheers.

 

[forestcreature1]

I was all prepped [since I was on vacation] to change the oil in the 3032e [green].
Noticed I didn't have but shave more than HALF of fifty hours [27.6 for those keeping score] on the thing.

So - I did the right thing - traded it in on a new cabbed one

[it is the allergies killing me, which is why I went to a cab model. hours were so low due to not being able to be outside until the killing freeze hits]

 

[murphy1244]

Did you get yer lid on?

Got it on today but it sure is tight.

 

[KiotiKevin]

I too had filings but NOT shavings. That is a whole new ballgame. Be interested what you find in this machine.
Cheers.

filings/shavings - tomato/tomaato
I'll let you know.

 

[HEC]

After looking at grm61 pics on page 3, I will change my hyd. fluid at 50 hrs. for sure .Yes Kubota hyd. fluid is costly but much cheaper than any repair that might be needed because I didn't do it .

 

[s219]

After looking at grm61 pics on page 3, I will change my hyd. fluid at 50 hrs. for sure .Yes Kubota hyd. fluid is costly but much cheaper than any repair that might be needed because I didn't do it .

That doesn't alarm me at all -- just a little heavier layer of particulates that settled out. It's hundreds of hours away from being an issue. When I saw the pics, I was actually surprised how clear the fluid looked overall.

I bet that if you put new fluid in your tractor and run the hydraulics for 10 hours, then drain and let the fluid settle, it will also look that way. 50 hours is just not enough time to really be a concern for hydraulic fluid, as long as the 50 hours happened in a reasonable amount of time. If it sat for 20 years for that 50 hours, then I'd be concerned.

Really at 50 hours, you want to evaluate the filter and any magnetic rings/rods for larger particulates, filings, chips, etc, and get those out. Anything big enough to be a problem will get caught in the filter or magnetic trap.

 

[Threepoint]

[snip]
Really at 50 hours, you want to evaluate the filter and any magnetic rings/rods for larger particulates, filings, chips, etc, and get those out. Anything big enough to be a problem will get caught in the filter or magnetic trap.

S219, my NX4510HST is at about 43 hrs. I'll need to decide soon how much to do, so I'm very interested in this. To evaluate the hydraulic filter and catch magnets, wouldn't I still need to drain the fluid? And is it safe then to strain and reuse it? Also, can understand cleaning the catch magnets, but how do you evaluate a filter, even when pulled? Seems like at that point you just have to replace it.

 

[s219]

On my HST Kubotas, and I suspect Kiotis will behave the same way, you can replace hydraulic and HST filters without draining the fluid. But you may need a couple tricks. Cap of any breathers (I use a nail to plug the breather tube on the transmission case on Kubotas). Some people also pull a vacuum on the fill port on the transmission with a shop vac, but I have never found that necessary. I also park the tractor on an incline or blocks/ramps so that the filter is "uphill".

Doing that procedure correctly, I have never lost more than 1/2 quart of fluid when changing both filters, and most times it's just whatever fluid was in the filters. You can top off to replenish anything that was lost, so have a couple quart bottles around. Last time I forgot to plug the breather and lost about 3/4 quart before I realized what was happening. Still not a whole lot.

You can evaluate the situation by looking at the filters when they come off. Normally the magnetic ring is there, and either gets reused or you get a new one with the new filter. Look at the old ring to see how much metal is on it, and the size of the particles (should be a fine gray fuzz/sludge, but there may be some small chips). See if any larger chips are stuck in the filter ports and ports on the filter mount.

I remember someone on here posted pictures a few years ago with a handful of metal shavings jammed around the filter ports. That was abnormal, and would be a reason for concern. I believe he got in touch with Kubota on that one and talked with engineers. Seriously, it looked like the nest of shavings I see in the bottom of a lathe tray after turning a part!! It was scary. Looked like the transmission case was not properly cleaned out when it was machined during manufacturing.

 

[murphy1244]

I agree and remember that photo. Big difference from filings and shavings it looked like the bottom of a mill.

 

[Threepoint]

On my HST Kubotas, and I suspect Kiotis will behave the same way, you can replace hydraulic and HST filters without draining the fluid. But you may need a couple tricks. Cap of any breathers (I use a nail to plug the breather tube on the transmission case on Kubotas). Some people also pull a vacuum on the fill port on the transmission with a shop vac, but I have never found that necessary. I also park the tractor on an incline or blocks/ramps so that the filter is "uphill".

Doing that procedure correctly, I have never lost more than 1/2 quart of fluid when changing both filters, and most times it's just whatever fluid was in the filters. You can top off to replenish anything that was lost, so have a couple quart bottles around. Last time I forgot to plug the breather and lost about 3/4 quart before I realized what was happening. Still not a whole lot.

You can evaluate the situation by looking at the filters when they come off. Normally the magnetic ring is there, and either gets reused or you get a new one with the new filter. Look at the old ring to see how much metal is on it, and the size of the particles (should be a fine gray fuzz/sludge, but there may be some small chips). See if any larger chips are stuck in the filter ports and ports on the filter mount.

I remember someone on here posted pictures a few years ago with a handful of metal shavings jammed around the filter ports. That was abnormal, and would be a reason for concern. I believe he got in touch with Kubota on that one and talked with engineers. Seriously, it looked like the nest of shavings I see in the bottom of a lathe tray after turning a part!! It was scary. Looked like the transmission case was not properly cleaned out when it was machined during manufacturing.

Good tips. Thanks! I'll look into seeing if they transfer to the Kioti.

 

[KiotiKevin]

.

I agree and remember that photo. Big difference from filings and shavings it looked like the bottom of a mill.

Hey Murph, could you attach that pic and maybe explain the difference between shavings and filings in detail for comparison purposes. If your saying there is such a significant difference I'm interested. Thanks
Kevin

 

[MinnesotaEric]

S219, my NX4510HST is at about 43 hrs. I'll need to decide soon how much to do, so I'm very interested in this. To evaluate the hydraulic filter and catch magnets, wouldn't I still need to drain the fluid? And is it safe then to strain and reuse it? Also, can understand cleaning the catch magnets, but how do you evaluate a filter, even when pulled? Seems like at that point you just have to replace it.

The fluid is going to come out looking clear even if it is full of bits.

 

[k0ua]

.

Hey Murph, could you attach that pic and maybe explain the difference between shavings and filings in detail for comparison purposes. If your saying there is such a significant difference I'm interested. Thanks
Kevin

I cannot find the photo, but fileings or bits are just small pieces of metal like would be produced by running a file across a piece of metal. What we saw on the photo was more properly called machining swarf, or you could call them shavings. These are long (some maybe as long as 2 inches) of curled metal strips. These are produced by a cutting tool, cutting into metal. These are the same kind of swarf you would see from a properly running drill bit or a lath cutting.

 

[murphy1244]

.

Hey Murph, could you attach that pic and maybe explain the difference between shavings and filings in detail for comparison purposes. If your saying there is such a significant difference I'm interested. Thanks
Kevin

I'll try to find it for you but that post was about 3 years old. Ever change the Trans fluid on a Car?? That silver is what S219 and I are talking about. Ever drill a hole in Metal? Those shavings are what we are talking about.
Cheers, Murph

 

[dragoneggs]

I cannot find the photo, but fileings or bits are just small pieces of metal like would be produced by running a file across a piece of metal. What we saw on the photo was more properly called machining swarf, or you could call them shavings. These are long (some maybe as long as 2 inches) of curled metal strips. These are produced by a cutting tool, cutting into metal. These are the same kind of swarf you would see from a properly running drill bit or a lath cutting.

I think this is a good explanation! When I first cleaned my hydraulic fluid strainer, I had some of both. I attributed the 'filings' from wear, and the 'shavings' or chips, coming from the machining process during build. The second time I pulled the strainer I found a little build up of filings, much less than the first pull, and no chips. Made me feel good about things.