DejaVu feeling with this work 'tier'

[chopped]

Im looking to buy new or slightly older equipment. And I have to say Im getting a bad feeling in my stomach when I see the works on posts here about 'tier' emissions.:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown: I guess From the fear and subsequent pains I had from the cars emissions. Ill admit that computer controlled function on ignition is a good progress. I Did fear whenit was adapted to tractor motors. I only assumed that it wouldn't help in my lifetime.
Now I can understand big farm tractors taking a hit with it but would want some huge offsets money wise from the govt.(us). When it comes to the smaller tractors, well............Simply is restrictive to me to purchase. And as a result. I assume Ill continue to 'pollute' with my older model.
Becasue of emissions I continue to drive an older car that is exempt from the tests. instead of 4 cylinders its 8 and I burn twice as much fuel. Simply doesnt make sence for the'little' guy.
Sorry for no warning this was a rant lol.

 

[Rocky Hoffler]

I understand your feelings as having worked in the automotive industry for 40 years have seen things change. I agree we need to be responsible for our actions but less look at big picture we regulate some and turn a blind eye to others. How much fuel is used by a airliner or train even ships take the fuel that is used by even one of these in a week how many tractors could you power in agreement with you I am just venting.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

And then there are the Hollywood do-gooders who fly around in private jets and heat/cool 15,000 foot mansions and tell us we should be driving electric cars and using solar power to save our energy resources.

 

[buck boost]

I'm confused by this thread. There have been very few problems with the tierIV inteirm and full tier IV tractors that I have read. Yes, new stuff costs more money. But in all reality from what everything I have seen, all the newest equipment is better than the previous generation. And lightyears ahead of just a few generations ago.

My full tier 4 VW TDI is an outstanding engineering marvel, esp for the price. Starts at -15F with three seconds of glow bar and you can drive away, gets mid to low 40 mpg's at 70-80 mph on the highway, super quiet, super smooth, passes the white glove test at the muffler, no DEF, no negatives really, at least not yet.

What this this fear of change is all about, I don't get it. If manufacturers don't keep upgrading and improving then we will be stuck in a rut like with IH building the almost the same tractor 30 years (farmall A/140). I like solid state ignition, fuel injection, common rail high pressure diesels, turbos, CLEAN AIR, and the rest of the modern features and safety equipment and interlocks that are on the modern equipment.

 

[chopped]

For me its simple computers etc. something else to go wrong.And its wrong from the git go...

I'm confused by this thread. There have been very few problems with the tierIV inteirm and full tier IV tractors that I have read. Yes, new stuff costs more money. But in all reality from what everything I have seen, all the newest equipment is better than the previous generation. And lightyears ahead of just a few generations ago.

My full tier 4 VW TDI is an outstanding engineering marvel, esp for the price. Starts at -15F with three seconds of glow bar and you can drive away, gets mid to low 40 mpg's at 70-80 mph on the highway, super quiet, super smooth, passes the white glove test at the muffler, no DEF, no negatives really, at least not yet.

What this this fear of change is all about, I don't get it. If manufacturers don't keep upgrading and improving then we will be stuck in a rut like with IH building the almost the same tractor 30 years (farmall A/140). I like solid state ignition, fuel injection, common rail high pressure diesels, turbos, CLEAN AIR, and the rest of the modern features and safety equipment and interlocks that are on the modern equipment.

 

[arrow]

.

IH building the almost the same tractor for 30 years (farmall A/140).

I always liked this idea for tractors. Wish they all were still doing this. Tractors are becoming like part of the fashion and cell phone world with "Gotta have the latest and greatest". I say "fooey" on this!

 

[chopped]

:thumbsup: I agree. they used to be for work. and now they are showpieces

I always liked this idea for tractors. Wish they all were still doing this. Tractors are becoming like part of the fashion and cell phone world with "Gotta have the latest and greatest". I say "fooey" on this!

 

[buck boost]

I always liked this idea for tractors. Wish they all were still doing this. Tractors are becoming like part of the fashion and cell phone world with "Gotta have the latest and greatest". I say "fooey" on this!

:thumbsup: I agree. they used to be for work. and now they are showpieces

Really? I haven't noticed that. Most of the posts I have read on here talk about bushhogging, loader work, 3pt attachments, pros and cons between gear and hydro, grading work, snowblowing/plowing, ect. I haven't read any posts about anyone stripping off brand new paint and putting (name your color metalflake) paint with chrome rims and driving cross country to tractor shows. lol

For me its simple computers etc. something else to go wrong.And its wrong from the git go...

I'm not really sure what that means. Just trying to understand. To me, it seems like flawed logic. All the newest equipment (as a whole) is the best that has ever been on the market. The safest, most efficient, the most productive and most reliable. Not every "new" model will be a winner, but that has not changed. There were duds 40 years ago, just like today. It happens.


IMHO IH was the king back in the hay day. If IH didn't sit on their hands for thirty years building the same tractor and evolved their CUT line, maybe I'd have two new IH CUTs that were near state of the art instead of kubotas. Don't get me wrong, I really, really like my kubotas, and I think they were the best that I could afford. But part of me really wishes they were ALL American made, owned, engineered and the whole works. IH had this market segment, (with almost zero competition) but it fell apart. And I think partly because of that reason.

I'm not really interested in driving a 52 Desoto, or an 86 Olds. I don't see any antique road graders building roads, just brand new ones with GPS grading. :confused3:

 

[arrow]

I haven't read any posts about anyone stripping off brand new paint and putting (name your color metalflake) paint with chrome rims and driving cross country to tractor shows. lol

:

I like this idea as well. The way most of these tractors are made to look nowadays (mostly as insects to me) all one would need are the chrome wheels. From what I've read on IH, the strike in the 80's did them in at a time farmers were in the middle of their harvests. Also, corporate decided to consolidate their store fronts so one went from 25 miles to 80 miles awy but on the corner was still the Ford dealership. That's a mismanagement in my mind. IH made one of the most dependable tractors around with hydraulics superior to anything else at the time. That's the thing farmers really cared about IMO.

 

[arrow]

I'm not really interested in driving a 52 Desoto, or an 86 Olds. . :

Neither am I but how about a 68 Cobra jet Mustang or a 69 Hemi Dart?

 

[buck boost]

I like this idea as well. The way most of these tractors are made to look nowadays (mostly as insects to me) all one would need are the chrome wheels. From what I've read on IH, the strike in the 80's did them in at a time farmers were in the middle of their harvests. Also, corporate decided to consolidate their store fronts so one went from 25 miles to 80 miles awy but on the corner was still the Ford dealership. That's a mismanagement in my mind. IH made one of the most dependable tractors around with hydraulics superior to anything else at the time. That's the thing farmers really cared about IMO.

It does look like a bug now that you mentioned it. lol I have not researched thoroughly the demise of IH, but that strike when people are ready to buy your product is bad juju. Building the same tractor for 30 years isn't any good IMHO eithier. Oh yes, management was probably their biggest problem.

Neither am I but how about a 68 Cobra jet Mustang or a 69 Hemi Dart?

Not really. Maybe just for a sunday afternoon cruise or something. Just because it is a classic, doesn't make it useful. I'm kinda surprised the safety Gestapo hasn't stopped in on this thread yet lol. I like steering wheel airbags, side curtain airbags, antilock brakes, heated seats, crumple zones, key-less entry, 100k+ mile tune-ups, and the uber reliability that modern cars have spoiled the driving population with. I drive 22K miles a year, or more, not really interested those old beasts. They are still cool though. Do I want to spend my money on one? No way. Do I really want to even just drive one? Not really. New is better.

 

[arrow]

My word Buck. "better" is subjective at best and is why we're all offering varied opinions on what's "better". "Practical" equates to "better" for some while an 11.2 quarter mile is "better" for others of a different ilk.

 

[buck boost]

I hear ya arrow. What is good for someone may not be for another.

New is better, for me.

 

[chopped]

Ok so I should clear up what I mean some. Im not knocking new at all. And as most poster would say Its what make THEM feel good. Thats also A OK. Im speaking about how me. (who does like new also) is now saddled with that not an option because someone has determined that they need to save the world and not use common sense to determine that a small tractor run only occasionally should not be out priced to someone who had a ton of bucks or can sign on the dotted line.
Don't mean to insult anyone at all. im just stating that to me for me to add all this expense is not in the best interest of all. All the fancy stuff will in time break down. But the culture now is to only see the present.
I deal everyday with this,

 

[Ductape]

The way I see it, the new tier IV stuff just made my 'old' B3030 worth at least a couple grand more than it was a year ago. Kubota took a $26,000 30hp compact and made it a $33,000 compact. Then add that if you are out snowblowing your driveway in a storm and you hit your re-gen cycle you are stuck there for 45 minutes getting nothing done.

 

[treman]

While I'm not wild about all the new tier IV stuff I have to say that the m135gx Kubota I operate at work is really nice and for the record a regen cycle takes about 9 to 12 minutes or so if done regularly. 45 minutes seems ridiculous. It took me about 15 or 20 minutes the first time since I had to find and reread the owners manual. Also on the larger tractors there is a selection for auto regen where you don't have to do anything but keep working above a specified rpm. Don't know if the small ones have this option.

 

[MHarryE]

While I'm not wild about all the new tier IV stuff I have to say that the m135gx Kubota I operate at work is really nice and for the record a regen cycle takes about 9 to 12 minutes or so if done regularly. 45 minutes seems ridiculous. It took me about 15 or 20 minutes the first time since I had to find and reread the owners manual. Also on the larger tractors there is a selection for auto regen where you don't have to do anything but keep working above a specified rpm. Don't know if the small ones have this option.

Treman - I small with you on the regen time. I keep a record of my regens and 0.2 to 0.3 hr is my range. All have been auto. I monitor my DPF status so I have an idea when a regen will start but usually my only notice is the regen light flashing. Then I look at my hour meter, put the reading in the notepad on my phone and do that again when the light stops flashing.

As fir International Harvester, having worked in management for Case IH and having spent lots of time with long time managers who went through the buyout/merger, the situation was basically dictated by the McCormick family (remember Cyrus, inventor of the reaper and created of the company). The family was still majority stockholder and continuing dividends were the order of the day. Do whatever you must to keep the dividends. Unions? Being management I shouldn't say anything favorable about them but our plant regularly had the ambulance in front hauling away injured workers. After the first day I felt my move was the biggest mistake of my life but it was a great learning experience because I learned what it really meant having the clowns running the circus. Moving to them was typical USA today, motivated by greed (I got a lot of money to be treated like dirt) and was very glad to find a job where we were treated decently less than 2 years later.

 

[Garandman]

For me its simple computers etc. something else to go wrong.And its wrong from the git go...

But electronically controlled systems are more reliable than most of the mechanical systems they replace? With a fleet of ten vehicles in the last 10 years the total number of fuel injection problems we have had is one: a mass airflow sensor on a brand-new Nissan, we could still drive it and replaced under warranty.

Construction equipment of all types was a significant source of pollution, that's why it has been addressed. I have kids, and I owe them at least the chance to live life on this planet about the same as I had it.

 

[chopped]

I understand this all, However I dont agree that a small less often tractor should be under the high standards of heavy construction equipment. ..All to often the powers to be will just not consider any of the impacts of these 'rules' But for a small tractor, ill take a simple mechanical pump over a computer any day. All im saying is , Ill not pay the pollution tax again , in respect to a tractor. Ducktape said it right in one way. My 30 year old (well maint)tractor is now worth more .

But electronically controlled systems are more reliable than most of the mechanical systems they replace? With a fleet of ten vehicles in the last 10 years the total number of fuel injection problems we have had is one: a mass airflow sensor on a brand-new Nissan, we could still drive it and replaced under warranty.

Construction equipment of all types was a significant source of pollution, that's why it has been addressed. I have kids, and I owe them at least the chance to live life on this planet about the same as I had it.

 

[Wayne64SS]

I'm confused by this thread. There have been very few problems with the tierIV inteirm and full tier IV tractors that I have read. Yes, new stuff costs more money. But in all reality from what everything I have seen, all the newest equipment is better than the previous generation. And lightyears ahead of just a few generations ago.

My full tier 4 VW TDI is an outstanding engineering marvel, esp for the price. Starts at -15F with three seconds of glow bar and you can drive away, gets mid to low 40 mpg's at 70-80 mph on the highway, super quiet, super smooth, passes the white glove test at the muffler, no DEF, no negatives really, at least not yet.

What this this fear of change is all about, I don't get it. If manufacturers don't keep upgrading and improving then we will be stuck in a rut like with IH building the almost the same tractor 30 years (farmall A/140). I like solid state ignition, fuel injection, common rail high pressure diesels, turbos, CLEAN AIR, and the rest of the modern features and safety equipment and interlocks that are on the modern equipment.

Wait till you get a repair bill for the DPF on that pile. Or are you the typical own till warranty expires VW guy?