Miller warranty

[mikehaugen]

I'm no attorney but the wording of the warranty seems problematic. It reads, "All warranty time periods start on the delivery date of the equipment to the original end-user purchaser, and not to exceed twelve months after the equipment is shipped to a North American distributor or eighteen months after the equipment is shipped to an International distributor."

The problem to me is the operative word, 'and'. For it to make sense to me, the operative word should be 'or'. I don't see how both conditions can be met after 12months. :confused3:

Or perhaps "but"?

 

[Arc weld]

Get Miller involved ASAP. A longer cord doesn't wreck a switch. This place is %$#@&^! you around. Sadly they aren't the only ones. Miller decides if it's warranty if there are any concerns not the repair shop. The repair shop probably has to wait a little while to get paid from Miller and that's why they're giving you the BS stories. Have seen it on other products besides welders.

 

[dragoneggs]

Yeah I agree with Arc... call Miller directly and explain your situation. Miller surely wants to know how their authorized dealers are handling their customer service. This is paramount to a manufacturer and their brand protection.

 

[mx842]

Get Miller involved ASAP. A longer cord doesn't wreck a switch. This place is %$#@&^! you around. Sadly they aren't the only ones. Miller decides if it's warranty if there are any concerns not the repair shop. The repair shop probably has to wait a little while to get paid from Miller and that's why they're giving you the BS stories. Have seen it on other products besides welders.

What the guy said was that who ever put the long cord on didn't leave enough cord inside from where the outside clamp was and it caused the switch to crack. I haven't seen it yet so I don't know what happened. I don't remember now how the cable was run but when I put it on I ran it just like the original one was run.

The guy claimed that they talked to Miller and they are the ones that said the long cord voided my warranty. Again, I wasn't there when the guy did or didn't call I'm just saying what he said.

OH, I don't know if I mentioned this or not but when I called them yesterday to ask about the bill they told me that was only an estimate. They had not done the work yet and he acted somewhat like I was holding him up. He called and left a message last Thursday and I didn't answer the phone. Then I waited until Tuesday of the next week to call and ask about the machine. Never mind that there was a holiday in between and they were not even there Monday.

When I talked to him I told him to not fix it and that I would come get it like it was. Want to bet what the bill is probably still going to be for the check out? My guess is that it will still probably be close to $200.00.

 

[jimcolt]

Miller, like every other reputable manufacturer....has to have a written warranty. There are always exceptions and especially (if the dealer you brought it to is an authorized Miller repair house) with the lack of timely service and callbacks....I'm sure a phone call or email describing the timeline of the scenario will help you solve your issue. I recommend going back to the dealer you bought it from and asking them for the contact info for the regional Miller rep, then outline the situation to him. They are a good company and I suspect you will get covered under warranty. I have heard mostly good about their product support. I have never tried it as I bought my 3 Miller pieces (well, one is a Hobart) used!

Jim Colt Hypertherm

 

[Arc weld]

Miller is usually really good but I just remembered a slight problem I had with some woman in customer service at Miller. One of the distributors for the place I worked ordered a MM211 and when it arrived, the MVP plug for the 110 volt was missing. Probably a blessing in disguise. This woman was arguing with me trying to explain how they test the machines and there's no way the plug could be missing. This was a good honest customer and the plug is worth maybe $10. I gave up with her and got the name of the companies contact person at Miller. I explained the whole thing to her and had the plug in 2 days. Miller has no problem giving warranty on lenses and helmets so it shouldn't be a problem to get warranty on a switch. If you have a good sales rep would help but sometimes talking to someone higher up helps the most.

 

[mx842]

Miller is usually really good but I just remembered a slight problem I had with some woman in customer service at Miller. One of the distributors for the place I worked ordered a MM211 and when it arrived, the MVP plug for the 110 volt was missing. Probably a blessing in disguise. This woman was arguing with me trying to explain how they test the machines and there's no way the plug could be missing. This was a good honest customer and the plug is worth maybe $10. I gave up with her and got the name of the companies contact person at Miller. I explained the whole thing to her and had the plug in 2 days. Miller has no problem giving warranty on lenses and helmets so it shouldn't be a problem to get warranty on a switch. If you have a good sales rep would help but sometimes talking to someone higher up helps the most.

Yeah, sometimes you talk to someone that is just having a bad day and it pays to go a little higher up the adder. I called miller one day last week and talked to someone in service about this problem I'm having. He told me that just putting the longer cord on this machine would not void any warranty. As long of course that it was installed properly and was large enough for the job. That's where the sticky part comes in.....all the people doing the work have to say is that it wasn't installed correctly which made the switch go bad and they got you. The guy at Miller said he was going to call those people and see what's up to see what they can do. It's been almost a week though and I haven't heard a peep out of anyone.

 

[XMS]

Call Miller direct. Have your serial number available. Ignore LWS telling you what Miller says. Just call Miller.

I had a warranty request for my Multimatic 200 on a firmware upgrade (yup, they come with chips you can swap out for upgrades). Also mentioned to the Miller guy that the ground clamp fell off the cable on the first use. He was trying to send me a new one until I finally told him I can hammer my own clamp, and already had. But he was almost insistent on sending one, anyway. I'd have taken it, but I got so much stuff already I'd just lose it.

When you get someone there, they are helpful. My experience has been getting a person to talk to is hard. Skip anything email-related with them, and forget their website forms. Just call the number and be prepared to talk to a few heads over a day or two. Eventually you'll get someone solid.

 

[mx842]

Well I got my little girl back......still broken and $50.00 lighter in my pocket book. I talked to miller a couple days ago and the fellow I talked to agreed to give me a new switch but he would not pay for the rest of the stuff they had to do. After thinking about it I decided to just go get it and be done with it. I'll get a switch from lowes or the electrical supply place in town.

When I got there the guy said well it's not fixed yet! I said you told me you would have it done last week and if I wait much longer I'd be too dang old to use it. I said just tell me how much my bill was and I'll pay it and get on with my life. He told me $200.00.

I asked him just what did I get for my $200.00? He said testing, he had to replace the gun liner, assembled the wire roll the correct way that when it came in it was put together wrong, and removed the power cord that was wrong for the machine and when he did the switch fell apart.

I told him are you sure you did all that to this machine? I explained to him that I told him that the roll was just laid in there because you said you needed the roll of wire to test it. And....as far as the liner I also told you that I had just put a brand new liner in it before I brought it in and never even put a tip on it. As for the wrong cable, I told him I had put that cable on there the day I brought it home and that was almost three years ago so it seems to me If I had broken it then it would have caused me problems before now. He pizzed and moaned some but finally said,......well how about $50.00? he had to get something out of it to cover some of his cost. I guess I could have went on a little more but I decided to be done with it and get the heck out of there before my true feelings got in the way.

Hopefully once I put a new switch in it will be ok. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

 

[XMS]

Well I got my little girl back......still broken and $50.00 lighter in my pocket book. I talked to miller a couple days ago and the fellow I talked to agreed to give me a new switch but he would not pay for the rest of the stuff they had to do. After thinking about it I decided to just go get it and be done with it. I'll get a switch from lowes or the electrical supply place in town.

When I got there the guy said well it's not fixed yet! I said you told me you would have it done last week and if I wait much longer I'd be too dang old to use it. I said just tell me how much my bill was and I'll pay it and get on with my life. He told me $200.00.

I asked him just what did I get for my $200.00? He said testing, he had to replace the gun liner, assembled the wire roll the correct way that when it came in it was put together wrong, and removed the power cord that was wrong for the machine and when he did the switch fell apart.

I told him are you sure you did all that to this machine? I explained to him that I told him that the roll was just laid in there because you said you needed the roll of wire to test it. And....as far as the liner I also told you that I had just put a brand new liner in it before I brought it in and never even put a tip on it. As for the wrong cable, I told him I had put that cable on there the day I brought it home and that was almost three years ago so it seems to me If I had broken it then it would have caused me problems before now. He pizzed and moaned some but finally said,......well how about $50.00? he had to get something out of it to cover some of his cost. I guess I could have went on a little more but I decided to be done with it and get the heck out of there before my true feelings got in the way.

Hopefully once I put a new switch in it will be ok. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

My Gawd. I am so sorry to hear about your trouble. It must be that Miller would not pay them for the warranty service required.

I got plasma and welding equip from them, and I've made a note. They just dropped a notch in my eyes.

God Bless.

 

[dragoneggs]

My Gawd. I am so sorry to hear about your trouble. It must be that Miller would not pay them for the warranty service required.

I got plasma and welding equip from them, and I've made a note. They just dropped a notch in my eyes.

God Bless.

Really? Who is better?

 

[XMS]

Really? Who is better?

I've not seen anything to suggest the owner screwed up. With that understood, I am surprised Miller didn't' help.

My shop is 100% Miller, but even so I don't do the "brand jihad" thing. I don't care whether it is Blue or purple or red or yellow or magenta. If someone came along with better I'd take it and never look back. The #1 thing I look at is long-term service. I've been doing this for 20 years. I don't care much for 'right now', I care for 'right forever', though I know nothing is forever. But 'reasonably in the future' is high on my list.

Show me where the OP screwed up and I will change my opinion. But I will give benefit of the doubt to the consumer every time. Miller has won dollars from my firm because of their reputation. Ding that and there is little reason for me to give them that benefit.

Respectfully...

 

[Scooby074]

Awful dealer.. Just awful.

In hindsight perhaps it would have been better to get Miller involved BEFORE first contact with the warranty depot. Thats generally how I approach it.

I guess from Millers perspective they didnt authorize the repair depot to do all the unnecessary stuff they did like changing the liner etc. so they wont pay for that part of the service because it wasnt germane to the defective switch. Bad troubleshooting on the part of the repair site

Take them up on their offer of a new switch. I doubt you'll find one that is correct at Lowes.

Again, just a really crappy dealer experience.

 

[dragoneggs]

I've not seen anything to suggest the owner screwed up. With that understood, I am surprised Miller didn't' help.

My shop is 100% Miller, but even so I don't do the "brand jihad" thing. I don't care whether it is Blue or purple or red or yellow or magenta. If someone came along with better I'd take it and never look back. The #1 thing I look at is long-term service. I've been doing this for 20 years. I don't care much for 'right now', I care for 'right forever', though I know nothing is forever. But 'reasonably in the future' is high on my list.

Show me where the OP screwed up and I will change my opinion. But I will give benefit of the doubt to the consumer every time. Miller has won dollars from my firm because of their reputation. Ding that and there is little reason for me to give them that benefit.

Respectfully...

I'm not a 'brand jihad' guy either but there is definitely 'something' behind a brand. I may have not got the total gist of this thread but I am thinking the manufacturer (Miller in this case) has not had a fair chance to make it right yet. Often when you first approach a company, the story isn't communicated/understood so elevating the issue is necessary for a resolution that the customer expects. Remember the first contact is probably someone that does not have the authority to 'make it right'. The flip side is that many 'consumers' fraudulently take advantage of situations that end up costing the 'good' manufacturers that stand behind their product. Quality is part of why a commodity costs more but also service... whether deserved or not. Please don't take this post wrong as I am definitely on the side of the OP and my guess is that Miller will make it right.

 

[Arc weld]

I'm not sure if Miller or the Miller rep has had enough time to correct it either It usually doesn't happen overnight but a good rep or someone at Miller should at least be able to give an answer and/or reason why it isn't warranty. Give them a chance. Remember that Miller has literally a million machines out there. You might have to make some follow up calls. If you have the name of the person you talked to helps a lot. The shop may have had the machine for a while but Miller might not have ever been contacted. You're not going to find a switch for a welder at HD.

 

[Walkin Horse]

Welding stores, just as everybody else,are scrambling for business. Sometimes I hate to see our salesman come in the shop because of the stupid junk he's peddling.

The idea that he changed your liner and tips was a money maker. They treat everybody like they have deep pockets. I doubt car dealer repair shops are as bad. I have a bobcat that needs repair and I keep putting it off because I know it's gonna be another BOHICA.

 

[mx842]

OK OK....before this get's out of control and turns into a trash fest on miller just let me be clear that I can understand why miller may have handled this the way they did. Basically all they have to go on is what their warranty service center says they found. And yes, the first guy I talked to at miller dropped the ball and didn't follow up on this like he said he would but that is all too common in today's business world. I probably should have called back the next day rather than wait another week to call. The second guy did like he said he would; actually I think it was the same guy I had talked to before cause he was really Johnny on the spot when he looked at the notes posted for the SN. Regardless of that he called me back about 3 hours later to tell me what the service center had said and that he would cover the switch but not the labor to do all that other stuff they did or didn't have to do. He told me he was sending them a switch to replace the the broken one and if there was anything else he could do just yell.

When I got the welder back I pulled the cover off to see what was going on and the switch was indeed broken but the wire going to it didn't seem to be out of place. I had placed a heavy wire tie on it and attached it to a screw already on the machine to hold it in place to keep the heavy wire from pulling on the switch in case the wire slipped in the wire clamp where the wire entered the machine. That wire tie had been removed and what the service shop guy said caused the switch to break. He said Miller doesn't tie the wire off inside the machine like this so in his view it was installed incorrectly.

The service shop never called Miller to try to get the switch covered. He took it on his own that Miller would not cover it because it had the wrong cord on it. Note to self.....If you ever have a machine that is still under warranty take the long cord off before you take it in for warranty service.

The rest of the stuff they did was just a fishing expedition to get as much bang for their buck as they could. I guess they figured with a machine like that he can afford it! My argument here has never really been with Miller it has been with the shop doing the work. Although I do believe that there should be more places to take a machine like this to if you need service than just two places in an area this size. In fact I think anybody that stocks and sells these machines should have to be service centers. That way the selling dealer would have more interest in keeping their customers happy.

Oh...and yes you can get a switch just like the one in this machine at Lowes, HD or any electrical all it is, is a 240v 4 pole box switch. I was looking at one at Lowes yesterday for $32.00.

 

[Arc weld]

It's very hard to know what's going on without knowing all the facts. There was nothing wrong with putting a longer cord on it as acknowledged directly by Miller. If everybody that was a Miller dealer had to be a service center as well would be a complete and total nightmare!!! What's even worse is that some repair centers undercut the dealers and sell Miller direct to customers while not being authorized to sell Miller direct.

Miller makes good equipment but some of their ways of doing things could use improvement. We had a really good Miller rep up here that left because of the way Miller handled territories. Alberta is a huge, huge market for welding and there are 2 sales reps for central and Northern Alberta. The way Miller has it, two reps can deal with 2 separate companies across the street from each other. There are several dealers selling Miller and the different dealers may or may not have the same sales rep. They try not to step on each other's toes but it's impossible not to sometimes. Not all dealers sell the same other products.

Here's one example why the good sales rep quit. The other rep isn't very good and favors certain dealers. He would undermine one dealer to support one of his faves. A salesman where I used to work went into a shop that bought Hobart(Miller) wire and knew it was serviced by another supplier that had the other Miller/Hobart rep. He wasn't going in there to sell Hobart wire or Miller products. He was selling them bandsaw blades that the other dealer didn't sell. Now what happens when the customer isn't happy with the service they get from the other dealer and love the service they get from this salesman and ask if he can give them a quote on 750lb. drums of Hobart wire? See the problem. There was no exclusive contract with the other supplier. The salesman looked into it and gave the shop a quote. It was a little lower than what they were paying but very close. The other Miller rep got wind of the quote and then gave the other supplier a special deal on the wire so they could sell the wire almost at the cost the new supplier paid. The salesman talked with our Miller rep and went back in with a matching quote and said we would keep stock so it was always available. It's supposed to be about customer service isn't it? The shop wasn't happy with the service they were getting and are the ones who were asking if it was possible to get another quote. The salesman never brought it up. The shop switched wire suppliers, was really happy with the service but the other Miller rep had a BIG Temper Tantrum because he was losing the commission and the other Miller rep was now getting it. He then started going into accounts of the good Miller rep to try and get them to switch to his dealers. That's dirty pool and why most companies give their reps specific territories. Miller lost one of their most knowledgeable reps because of the way they had things set up.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Personally, I wouldn't be too hard on Miller, from a standpoint of the fact they have to rely upon their repair centers evaluation more than the customers, especially since they can see "patterns" of behaviors with certain repair centers if they develop. If they keep seeing a lot of extra billed parts, delayed repairs, etc. or they have customers calling in to complain, it's easy enough to see if they are doing the right job over time and can work directly with the customer to get things resolved, and eventually weed out that repair center if they are not representing the company honestly or fairly. The fact is that they do have to draw a line somewhere, even if they have liberal policies, if they have a bean counter looking over their shoulder as many companies do these days. It does sound shady though on the repair center's end...so in this case it would be best to resolve it between Miller and the Customer...possibly on a cell phone while at the repair center standing in front of the repair supervisor or tech himself...

I remember a similar situation with a customer who called in to tell me a unit did not work. He said he had an electrician install the wiring for him in his house to code etc...It would not powerup at all. So, obviously from some of the details he gave, it was the power switch. Knowing that is not a frequent item of failure, I was trying to add things up. Then he told me that his electrician wanted to talk to me. As soon as he was on the phone the electrician started telling me that the unit was "underwired" for the amps it would draw and that he had rewired the unit correctly. I then asked him what gauge wire he had used, and it was well oversized for what was required, and likely would not easily fit into the powerswitch. I asked him if he was familiar with the NEC article 630. He had not ever heard of it, and said it didn't matter because he had done it for meeting code as the welder wire was undersized. I then explained to him the duty cycle derating etc by the NEC. He said he had never heard of such a thing...Anyway to make a long story short, the electrician had oversized the wire, and then over torqued the screws on the breaker switch on the rear of the unit, cracking the switch and breaking it. He could barely get the wires in to begin with... Once we got to the bottom of the story, the customer who was irate at us initially turned his anger toward his electrician in the end (who refused to even consider that he had made a mistake) after I explained it to customer himself and explained the issue over a series of calls. If memory serves correctly we sent him a new switch instead of sending it in after explaining that warranty repair doesn't usually cover this, but we'd be glad to send him the part at no charge if he wanted to fix it himself which he agreed to. IIRC, I think the electrician finally promised to install it himself and go back to using a smaller cord. Never heard from him again that I know of regarding the issue after we sent the switch.

Anyway, the thing to do, just like you'd do at a repair shop, always ask for the damaged parts BACK, if they aren't involved in a warranty repair. This helps assure that the center is at least being honest in what they did...and you can see for yourself the damage or perceived issue.