Tractor News Kubota - Made in the USA

[booboo0310]

I agree Nightforce... There is nothing wrong with US manufacturing with the proper rewards for performance systems installed. They keep building VWs in Chattanooga, Toyota's in Kentucky and Indiana, Nissan's in TN, Honda's in Ohio and Alabama, etc... houstonscott shouldn't generalize and profile American workers like he did.

 

[Fluid]

Quality - auto buyers haven't gone foreign because of price. The owners talk about the quality, reliability. During the 1980's the company at which I worked went all out to duplicate the Japanese quality method, championed after WWII by American Edwards Deming. I ended up taking more Deming lecture series (videos shown in our cafeteria every noon for daily refresher). Using the methods we realized how bad our quality really was. Our machinists (this was a union shop) went far beyond expectations to produce outstanding parts once they learned, and suppliers who wouldn't change were replaced. Quality shot upward and the pieces of bankrupt Allis-Chalmers are now alive in AGCO. I wouldn't know if the same processes are in place because I left for more money - I can be bought.

Health care - say what you want but I spent 3 years living in France and our medical needs were taken care of immediately and for no cost. Later I injured myself in Norway guiding a final drive into place. I gritted my way through it not wanting to visit a doctor in a country where I was an engineering observer and possibly not supposed to be working so I waited until I returned to the US and saw the workman's comp doctor. After analyzing my MRI he declared me a fool for not immediately going to a Norwegian hospital where the care exceeds anything they could do for me in the US, and at no cost because I was legally in Norway. As it is I lost the use of 25% of my left arm the doc said could have been repaired over there immediately.

Obamacare increasing costs? During the time between 2000 and when I took early retirement in 2009 the portion I paid for insurance jumped every year, by as much as 40%, benefits were reduced! co pays were increased. They stabilized at the 2008 rate until I reached Medicare age. Funny thing how so many people around me struggle with hip and knee pain until they reach Medicare and then visit regularly until their problem joints are replaced. I don't know if you would really call Medicare socialized medicine since I paid premiums for 44 years. Still it is listed as an entitlement. Entitled? Darn right! I worked my butt off for those 44 years.

Your first sentence is so far off that its not even funny. When the first Toyota's hit the U.S. shores in 1959, they could not even make it up to freeway speeds of the time. Quality and reliability were lacking. All japanese cars where junk when they first hit the U.S. market and price was the only thing they had to offer and the Japanese government subsidized all of them for decades. The japanese only got into the high priced cars after mid 80s. I'm sorry for your health problems and I'm sure you did work hard for 44 years.

 

[bumperm]

Take away union's power, and the vacuum is filled by greedy CEO's, the 1 percenters, and the burgeoning wealth at the top, while the once middle class disappears. Better quit before I get into more trouble!

Not having a union shop, so I guess I would be one of those "greedy CEO's"? Four years ago, when I started receiving social security, I reduced my salary by the same amount and that money went toward non-management employee raises. (Okay, so it wasn't all that much after being divvied out, but it was better than no raise due to the down economy.)

"Right to Work" is also right not to work. If an employee feels they are not being treated fairly, they can always seek employment elsewhere. For me, it makes sense to try and retain good people. Paying a decent wage is less costly than training someone new. However, that "decent wage" has to make sense, be balanced against the value the employee brings to the company, and of course is constrained by market forces, costs, profits etc.

Greed was never part of the plan, and I suspect it's not for most small companies and corporations who provide most of the jobs in the US.

bumper

 

[Garandman]

Quality - auto buyers haven't gone foreign because of price. The owners talk about the quality, reliability. During the 1980's the company at which I worked went all out to duplicate the Japanese quality method, championed after WWII by American Edwards Deming. I ended up taking more Deming lecture series (videos shown in our cafeteria every noon for daily refresher). Using the methods we realized how bad our quality really was. //

I worked for a US company making copy machines who hired Deming, so I got to meet him and he conducted a seminar. This was in 1979. The other engineers in the room had no idea who he was or why he was there. At the end of the seminar there was a Q&A and I asked a question, which he answered. Then he asked for more questions.

The most amazing thing about Deming to me is that he was brought to Japan by General MacArthur. How did MacArthur know to bring this man to Japan in 1950, when most Americans would hear of him for at least 30 more years. Now we learn the Taguchi methods - who he credits largely to Deming.

Deming died in 1993 at age 93.

 

[MHarryE]

I worked for a US company making copy machines who hired Deming, so I got to meet him and he conducted a seminar. This was in 1979. The other engineers in the room had no idea who he was or why he was there. At the end of the seminar there was a Q&A and I asked a question, which he answered. Then he asked for more questions. The most amazing thing about Deming to me is that he was brought to Japan by General MacArthur. How did MacArthur know to bring this man to Japan in 1950, when most Americans would hear of him for at least 30 more years. Now we learn the Taguchi methods - who he credits largely to Deming. Deming died in 1993 at age 93.

Part of the training of course included case studies. One I remember is Ford using automatic transmissions built both by Mazda, who they owned most of in those days, and by Ford North America. There was a significantly higher warranty failure rate among the North American built transmissions so they did an intensive study. The North American transmissions had all parts built within print tolerance, but the Japanese transmission parts were much closer to nominal, not just within tolerance. Ford put the same statistical process controls into their North American transmission build, whether in plant or supplier, and they achieved transmission warranty equal to the Mazda builds. It was interesting to find so much data actually shared by US companies like GM and Ford showing how they were able to solve problems, reduce warranty, and increase customer satisfaction.

And yes to an earlier response - some of those early Japanese imports were really clunkers. A friend at work bought a 1972 Toyota and went through 4 valve trains in the 12,000 miles he owned the car. But if you have ever spent time in Japan you quickly realize they have much different driving conditions. Congested within a short distance from the coast, slow speeds, and no salt covered during long winters. But they learned. By the way I do not drive a Japanese car or truck, only tractors.

 

[Baby Grand]

Great topic, and one that certainly brings forth opinions! Not sure about unions driving manufacturing off shore- my understanding of Germany is that their trade balance is positive (for them) and they are much more unionized than we ever were... and their health care system, like about all of the rest of the industrialized world, is what we should hope to have here, but don't. While its true that universal, government health care can have waiting lists, lack of service and so forth, like in the UK, what isn't being said is that they also have to opportunity to purchase private insurance and care... but even those barely getting by have basic care, unlike here, where the ER's provide way too much care, super inefficiently and at great, unnecessary expense. Take away union's power, and the vacuum is filled by greedy CEO's, the 1 percenters, and the burgeoning wealth at the top, while the once middle class disappears. Better quit before I get into more trouble!

Well stated.

Quality - auto buyers haven't gone foreign because of price. The owners talk about the quality, reliability. During the 1980's the company at which I worked went all out to duplicate the Japanese quality method, championed after WWII by American Edwards Deming. I ended up taking more Deming lecture series (videos shown in our cafeteria every noon for daily refresher). Using the methods we realized how bad our quality really was. Our machinists (this was a union shop) went far beyond expectations to produce outstanding parts once they learned, and suppliers who wouldn't change were replaced. Quality shot upward and the pieces of bankrupt Allis-Chalmers are now alive in AGCO. I wouldn't know if the same processes are in place because I left for more money - I can be bought.

Health care - say what you want but I spent 3 years living in France and our medical needs were taken care of immediately and for no cost. Later I injured myself in Norway guiding a final drive into place. I gritted my way through it not wanting to visit a doctor in a country where I was an engineering observer and possibly not supposed to be working so I waited until I returned to the US and saw the workman's comp doctor. After analyzing my MRI he declared me a fool for not immediately going to a Norwegian hospital where the care exceeds anything they could do for me in the US, and at no cost because I was legally in Norway. As it is I lost the use of 25% of my left arm the doc said could have been repaired over there immediately.

Obamacare increasing costs? During the time between 2000 and when I took early retirement in 2009 the portion I paid for insurance jumped every year, by as much as 40%, benefits were reduced! co pays were increased. They stabilized at the 2008 rate until I reached Medicare age. Funny thing how so many people around me struggle with hip and knee pain until they reach Medicare and then visit regularly until their problem joints are replaced. I don't know if you would really call Medicare socialized medicine since I paid premiums for 44 years. Still it is listed as an entitlement. Entitled? Darn right! I worked my butt off for those 44 years.

Agree 100% about the quality argument. I remember our family cars (Dodge, AMC, Pontiac, Ford) all had serious defects that resulted in major repairs before they reached 60k miles, and by then they had rust holes eating the sheet metal, anyways. Dad got so angry he bought a VW Beetle and never went back to Detroit for another ride.

At some point the 1%rs will lose the war of words and people will realize that many things that benefits society over the individual are common sense, not slam-dunk socialism.

 

[Fluid]

Well stated.



Agree 100% about the quality argument. I remember our family cars (Dodge, AMC, Pontiac, Ford) all had serious defects that resulted in major repairs before they reached 60k miles, and by then they had rust holes eating the sheet metal, anyways. Dad got so angry he bought a VW Beetle and never went back to Detroit for another ride.

At some point the 1%rs will lose the war of words and people will realize that many things that benefits society over the individual are common sense, not slam-dunk socialism.

I understand quality is important to buyers. You said your dad bought a VW Beetle, right? Was it bought new? If yes, it had to be in the early 70s, 1973 was the last year in this country for the Beetle. The beetle was as basic as a car could get. A loaded (with options) Beetle would have to be a Super Beetle with gas powered heater that dropped MPG, Crank sun roof, the only power anything was a AM/FM radio, windshield wipers, rear window defogger. If you are saying the American auto companies have not improved their quality since your dad bought his Beetle, then you need to get out more and look. Do you still use a rotary phone and black and white TV. I know its vogue for followers to talk trash about US cars, but you need to use a better precedent then the **** car.

 

[Baby Grand]

I understand quality is important to buyers. You said your dad bought a VW Beetle, right? Was it bought new? If yes, it had to be in the early 70s, 1973 was the last year in this country for the Beetle. The beetle was as basic as a car could get. A loaded (with options) Beetle would have to be a Super Beetle with gas powered heater that dropped MPG, Crank sun roof, the only power anything was a AM/FM radio, windshield wipers, rear window defogger. If you are saying the American auto companies have not improved their quality since your dad bought his Beetle, then you need to get out more and look. Do you still use a rotary phone and black and white TV. I know its vogue for followers to talk trash about US cars, but you need to use a better precedent then the **** car.

No, not commenting on present US car quality. My comment was about why people abandoned Detroit iron for offshore rides and never came back. The point was quality, during the 60's, 70's & 80's, drove the switch for my dad and for a lot of other people. Pops bought a very used '59 Beetle that served him well enough for a few years that he replaced it with a new '68 model. That engine over the rear drive wheels even worked pretty well in the snow. That was a great car, until I wrecked it for him 8 years later.

As far as VW being a "**** car", I think Henry Ford was something of an admirer of that form of government, too. But the Germany that made both of my dad's cars, at the time they were built, is something the 1%ers seem to regard as a socialist state.

 

[Fluid]

No, not commenting on present US car quality. My comment was about why people abandoned Detroit iron for offshore rides and never came back. The point was quality, during the 60's, 70's & 80's, drove the switch for my dad and for a lot of other people. Pops bought a very used '59 Beetle that served him well enough for a few years that he replaced it with a new '68 model. That engine over the rear drive wheels even worked pretty well in the snow. That was a great car, until I wrecked it for him 8 years later.

As far as VW being a "**** car", I think Henry Ford was something of an admirer of that form of government, too. But the Germany that made both of my dad's cars, at the time they were built, is something the 1%ers seem to regard as a socialist state.

So what you are saying is that you and others can never go back to an American car because of poor quality from the 60s, 70s & 80s. How long should the US companies be abandoned before you and others think they should be given a chance? The same companies that you and others say are no good are the same companies that built the planes, tanks, bombs, guns, and other war material that saved the world from the Germans and Japanese. The US payed to rebuild all their cities, factories, ports,etc.

Using you thinking, build some bad cars/trucks and you are no good for life, let they go under they deserve it! Kill over 50 million people, lay waste to their homeland and everything, but boy do they make a good car, can't wait to help they out.

 

[bumperm]

So what you are saying is that you and others can never go back to an American car because of poor quality from the 60s, 70s & 80s. How long should the US companies be abandoned before you and others think they should be given a chance? The same companies that you and others say are no good are the same companies that built the planes, tanks, bombs, guns, and other war material that saved the world from the Germans and Japanese. The US payed to rebuild all their cities, factories, ports,etc.

Using you thinking, build some bad cars/trucks and you are no good for life, let they go under they deserve it! Kill over 50 million people, lay waste to their homeland and everything, but boy do they make a good car, can't wait to help they out.

Wow! I sure didn't get any of *that* in Baby Grand's post. Maybe I should go back and try reading between the lines better!

What I *thought* he said, is that the US cars in the 60's to 80's were lagging behind Japanese and German cars in quality. All I know is that when Motor Trend named the '71 Chevy Vega "CAR OF THE YEAR", I stupidly recommended of of those lemons to my mom as she needed a new car. Not sure if I every figured out how to apologize enough to her for that. What an abomination of a car the US automakers were willing to foist on the American public. Someone at MT must have had some sort of cozy relationship for that one!

Just in case there are youngsters reading, Chevy decided an aluminum block would work just fine with no cylinder liners - nada. Rapid wear, burning oil, and short engine life was the result. That wasn't all that bad I guess, as the body rusted through badly (even with no road salt) so the body and drive train all quit at the same time - - very little guilt about wasting one or the other when you paid to have it towed to it's resting place.

But that's all behind us now . . . think GM's ignition switch debacle.

I know US companies can build good stuff, but it's hard, sometimes impossible, to hold quality high when the majority of customer's are unwilling to pay for it, and/or the overseas competition are dumping cheap on the US market place.

Unfortunately in mary areas, such as manual machine tools (lathes, mills, saws etc) it is all but impossible to buy domestic.

bumper

 

[varmint]

Ah, the Chevy Vega... long forgotten by most of us. My little bro. worked for GM, and my mom wanted a small, cheap car for local driving, so they got her a... Vega. What a POS. What matter now is pretty much any country's auto makers can build good cars. Some better than others, for varying reasons. Sometimes it's handling and driving "feel", sometimes simple bullet-proof reliability, or just great mileage. Everybody makes something that satisfies, from Korea to Kentucky. I know a very wealthy guy who owns a Bentley Continental, a couple of Mercedes, a Lexus and Porsche, but his daily driver, for several reasons, is a Toyota Tundra. Corporate ownership, as in "American" or foreign is muddled these days. And, I stick by my statement that working folks are getting ever less of the "pie" while those at the top are getting more and more. Unions worked, in one sense, to leverage fair pay. Sure, they had issues- who doesn't? Nothing is simple is about the only thing I know for sure. Death and taxes, too, but they're given and not subject to much change.

 

[Fluid]

I find it odd that nobody can come up with anything good to say about the US auto's, just bad stuff that happened in the 60s, 70s, 80s,. The Germans or the Japanese have never produced a bad nothing, all their auto's have been good.

 

[houstonscott]

I find it odd that nobody can come up with anything good to say about the US auto's, just bad stuff that happened in the 60s, 70s, 80s,. The Germans or the Japanese have never produced a bad nothing, all their auto's have been good.

If I could only own one vehicle it would be the suburban. US makes good trucks, but US cars suck compared to Germans, Italians, or Japanese. I like my suburban but I don't pretend to expect the quality in my BMW or MB it shares the stable with. In some ways the US vehicles age differently than foreign cars, and how they age maybe better. Here is what I mean, American trucks have no issue making 100k, when something goes bad it's major, engine, transmission, big stuff, but the little stuff continues to be reliable. Foreign car are exact reverse. Engines transmissions are bullet proof but electrical interior stuff fails. Sometimes I think I'd rather a new engine at 150k and move on, than chase all the little stuff forever because the BMW engine still runs like new at 180k. As for tractors I think Kubota clearly has the quality over others, and their engines are superior. HS

 

[TravisD]

All I know is that when Motor Trend named the '71 Chevy Vega "CAR OF THE YEAR", I stupidly recommended of of those lemons to my mom as she needed a new car. Not sure if I every figured out how to apologize enough to her for that. What an abomination of a car the US automakers were willing to foist on the American public. Someone at MT must have had some sort of cozy relationship for that one!

MTCoTY has always been more about who wants to buy a real nice chunk of advertising from them, than an actual objective measure of quality. Look how often CoTY is the first year of a new model - you know, the one that traditionally is still working some of the bugs out? It doesn't seem to be the last year of a model, which is usually the one where they finally got everything right

 

[houstonscott]

MTCoTY has always been more about who wants to buy a real nice chunk of advertising from them, than an actual objective measure of quality. Look how often CoTY is the first year of a new model - you know, the one that traditionally is still working some of the bugs out? It doesn't seem to be the last year of a model, which is usually the one where they finally got everything right

To bad they couldn't get the all aluminum block right on the Vega, GM always gives up on a great idea, straight six all aluminum engine was years ahead of its time for America, and just right for new 4 valve twin cam heads to come after. HS

 

[TravisD]

Guess they spent the R&D money on the fancy shipping arrangements instead:

Vert-A-Pac train cars kept your Chevy Vega's price in check - Autoblog

 

[Garandman]

I find it odd that nobody can come up with anything good to say about the US auto's, just bad stuff that happened in the 60s, 70s, 80s,. The Germans or the Japanese have never produced a bad nothing, all their auto's have been good.

We've purchased two Chevrolet Cruze turbodiesels and a Cruze Eco this year at work. Everybody loves them one of our salespeople just traded in his Subaru for an Impala. The impala was named sedan of the year by Consumer Reports, first domestic choice in 20 years.

 

[riptides]

Vega, Gremlins, Pinto's, all cars in my formulative years of learning about cars. My first car that I actually bought? A 1982 Firebird, right off the lot. My last American car that I bought, that 1982 Firebird. Wow.. hard to write that...wow...

 

[Baby Grand]

So what you are saying is that you and others can never go back to an American car because of poor quality from the 60s, 70s & 80s. How long should the US companies be abandoned before you and others think they should be given a chance? The same companies that you and others say are no good are the same companies that built the planes, tanks, bombs, guns, and other war material that saved the world from the Germans and Japanese. The US payed to rebuild all their cities, factories, ports,etc.

Using you thinking, build some bad cars/trucks and you are no good for life, let they go under they deserve it! Kill over 50 million people, lay waste to their homeland and everything, but boy do they make a good car, can't wait to help they out.

Never is a long time - I never said that; you did.
Oh, just for the record, my dad really wanted to buy American and tried one more time after he bought the new Beetle and the Pontiac died - he bought a Vega. That capped it.

Personally, I will give American made a close look next time I'm shopping for a car. I think the build quality and design is looking pretty good.

As for holding a country, and it's people, eternally responsible for the poor choices that its politicians made, I understand the thinking, but that's not how I roll.