mikehaugen
Elite Member
If the cost difference is that low, it would be a great idea, but where do you buy that ss tubing?
Black pipe or galvanized for shop air lines?
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If the cost difference is that low, it would be a great idea, but where do you buy that ss tubing?
kencunningham
Silver Member
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Any industrial pipe company should be able to get it, even if they dont have it in stock.
franklin2
Gold Member
Stainless is hard on thread dies. And like someone else mentioned, all the different types of pipe will not get rid of a water problem. If you are getting water in a black pipe system, you are going to get it also in a stainless system. It's just won't be brown water from the rust. Does it really make any difference if it's brown or clear? I am not sure it matters to the tool, which is probably steel and will rust inside and lock up regardless. Or the paint job that is ruined by water coming out of the gun.
It's amazing that so many people are convinced, water and dirt, in compressed air is basically unavoidable.
It is completely avoidable. You just have to care about it enough to invest in an appropriate filter-drier.
Blade Breaker
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With a drip leg and a drain black pipe will last very very long. What do you think the compressor tank is made from?
mikehaugen
Elite Member
It's not that it's unavoidable, just that using a certain type of pipe is not going to eliminate it. It's not as obvious in some pipes, but it's still there.
No type of pipe is going to eliminate moisture.
No type of drains, or traps, will eliminate water vapor. They can only allow you to drain off moisture that has already condensed. Water vapor passes right through traps, and filters, to condense further down stream, often in the air hose or exiting a tool.
If you properly dry the air, and filter it, before the pipes, none of that is an issue. And that is the only thing that will completely eliminate these issues.
bigtiller
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I might be interested in something like that. How much do you think it would cost for one that will work for 6 or 10 CFM? Or maybe up to 15 or 20 CFM if I get the compressor of my dreams?
A good refrigerated drier the starts at about $750. But, HF does sell a $400 one. It probably is decent.
Use the same multiplier as you do for the CFM, on the prices from there. i.e. 20 CFM, everything is 2x more.
The drier does not have to match the max output of the compressor in CFM, it has to match the amount of air you use, in CFM.
A 7-10 CFM drier, with a 15-20 CFM compressor, for one guy to use steady, would be adequate. Two guys intermittently, could also work.
I have a Cam Air desiccant unit, which is now the Devilbiss unit below. and it will take a lot of water. You do do eventually have to replace the desiccant, or bake it, to drive out the moisture, making the refrigerated units much more attractive. How often you have to regenerate the desiccant, depends on the amount of use, and the amount of moisture. There is an indicator that tell you when it's time. But, It takes a lot of moisture to soak 10lbs of desiccant.
Had I been able to buy a refrigerated drier for 50% more back when I bought it, I would have. But, they were all about $1200 back then, and I paid about $400 many years ago, when I bought the desiccant unit.
These units pretty much all have 3 stage filtration. A water trap, an oil and dirt trap, and the drier to remove the water vapor. The desiccant absorbs the vapor, and the refrigerated drier condenses it out.
The desiccant is actually capable of drying the better than the refrigerated drier. But, both dry the air so much, it's a moot point.
I have included a $350 E-bay desiccant unit, that is a whole lot better than nothing. But, I don't have any experience with it.
Having an air compressor that is big enough so you are not running the crap out of it, is very important. If you have one that says Sears on it anywhere, don't waste your time, you need to spend the money for a real one, if you are going to get serious here.
Too small a compressor is the best way to make lots of water. if it is running 50% of the time, while you use it, you are at the limit of that unit.
Improving the ventilation where your compressor is, will also help a lot. If it is in a closet, forget that too. It needs air for cooling. A box fan pointed at it can help greatly.
Remember it is compressing the air it sucks in, where it is located. If that air is humid, it will make lots of water. If that air is dry, it won't. Having it located in an air conditioned space, will also reduce the amount of water it produces because the air is drier.
Devilbiss 130026 DAD-500 Clean Air Desiccant Air Drying System
Sorry, that's not working right now
Compressed Air Dryer - Save on this Compressed Air Dryer
D12IN Non-Cycling Refrigerated Air Dryer
crazyal
Super Member
I used PEX in my garage. I have my regulator set at 150 psi (not sure why you would want more than that) at the tank. Since I had the PEX, it's real easy to work with, and the brand I bought is rated for a working load of 180 psi at 120F I felt it would be just fine. I bought some of the one-touch quick connectors and ran the PEX through the studs right next to the romex. One thing I did do is make a couple of sections of black iron pipe (Tee with a leg going down with a 1/4 to drain any water) drops along the vertical runs to drain out any water that collects. I used steel because cool metal will attract any moisture that may not have been removed by my refrigerated air dryer.
One thing to remember is that if you do not use a form of water separator the moisture in the air line will revert back into water when the line is not being used and will pool at any low point in your vertical air lines. When this happens sooner or later a gob of water will be pushed out of the line by the air when using a tool. That's why I put the black iron pipe lower than the rest of the line. I never bothered to install them since I rarely get any water but one could add automated drains.
One thing to remember is that if you do not use a form of water separator the moisture in the air line will revert back into water when the line is not being used and will pool at any low point in your vertical air lines. When this happens sooner or later a gob of water will be pushed out of the line by the air when using a tool. That's why I put the black iron pipe lower than the rest of the line. I never bothered to install them since I rarely get any water but one could add automated drains.
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A point that is well worth considering ... given that there are multiple benefits ...
I've had the AC in the shop "on" pretty much continuously (even if in "Energy Saver" mode) for the last month. The compressor has an automatic drain valve on it that cycles every time the compressor runs ... and I'm seeing very little moisture come out of the drain valve.
The tank does get pretty warm every time it runs ... but it also cools off very rapidly ...
An automatic drain is a great option, and will no doubt extend the life of the tank, since most people don't drain theirs religiously.
franklin2
Gold Member
A point that is well worth considering ... given that there are multiple benefits ...
I've had the AC in the shop "on" pretty much continuously (even if in "Energy Saver" mode) for the last month. The compressor has an automatic drain valve on it that cycles every time the compressor runs ... and I'm seeing very little moisture come out of the drain valve.
The tank does get pretty warm every time it runs ... but it also cools off very rapidly ...
I can verify this also. The one factory I worked at had over 750 cfm worth of compressors in various parts of the faciltiy, all contributing to one common loop in the plant. They all had very large dryers, automated dumping valves, and 3 large tanks. The place was not airconditioned, and we always had major water problems in the humid summer. Lots of equipment failures because of it.
I moved on to work at a medical facility that was climate controlled. It only had about 300cfm worth of compressors, but they did use the climate controlled air, and they did not have near the problem the other facility had.
franklin2
Gold Member
A point that is well worth considering ... given that there are multiple benefits ...
I've had the AC in the shop "on" pretty much continuously (even if in "Energy Saver" mode) for the last month. The compressor has an automatic drain valve on it that cycles every time the compressor runs ... and I'm seeing very little moisture come out of the drain valve.
The tank does get pretty warm every time it runs ... but it also cools off very rapidly ...
I can verify this also. The one factory I worked at had over 750 cfm worth of compressors in various parts of the facility, all contributing to one common loop in the plant. They all had very large dryers, automated dumping valves, and 3 large tanks. The place was not air conditioned, and we always had major water problems in the humid summer. Lots of equipment failures because of it.
I moved on to work at a medical facility that was climate controlled. It only had about 300cfm worth of compressors, but they did use the climate controlled air, and they did not have near the problem the other facility had.
jwmorris
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I have copper and PVC. If you are just using the air, to air up tires and such, I don't think a little rust will matter.
If you are using air tools, pneumaic cylinders, etc you can destroy a lot of dollars with little chunks of rust. Also why many expensive machines like CNC mills and lathes have dryers, filters and regulators mounted on the machine itself.
If you are using air tools, pneumaic cylinders, etc you can destroy a lot of dollars with little chunks of rust. Also why many expensive machines like CNC mills and lathes have dryers, filters and regulators mounted on the machine itself.
You can have zero problems, 7 times in a row, when playing Russian roulette.
That doesn't mean it's safe. It just means you were lucky.
PVC compressed air piping is against code. It is an OSHA violation. It has injured people. That been proven repeatedly.
KennyG
Super Member
Just to remind people the issue is not PVC pressure capability (although it is generally less than metal) it is failure mode. Yes, a PVC pipe can set there at 150 psi for years and nothing will happen. However, if you drop a heavy weight on it, especially at low temperature, it will explode and send sharp plastic fragments great distances. In the same situation, a metal pipe may crack but won't explode. That's why use of PVC is expressly forbidden by building codes and OSHA.
If you are happy with that risk (and I will freely admit I have more than a few things around my place that would make a safety inspector turn pale), OK, but I personally would not work in a shop with PVC air lines.
drizler
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Same here. Easy to set up and solder. I have had mine (all 3/4" since the late 90's with no problems. I did use regular 50/50 solder because it's a lot easier to use than the new stuff. The only leaks are as you would expect at the quick disconnects.
mikehaugen
Elite Member
Alright, so I was a kinda taking a middle road here... I could understand people using pvc and figured they were probably alright, but I would use metal of some kind, mostly because I have acces to any tooling I would need for iron or copper. I have since changed my mind.
We have 2" diaphram pumps at work that pump waste water to a holding area in another area of the plant. For those that don't know, a diaphram pump used air pressue on diaphrams to pump liquids... the outlet port of the pump will deliver the liquid at the same pressure as the incoming air supply- we run around 95 psi in our plant. The liquid end of these are piped with 2" pvc pipe (some is sch.40 but most is sch.80). So I went to turn on one of these pumps a couple days ago and heard a large loud "crack" and water started coming from the ceiling. The outlet pipe ran up the wall and up to another pipe along the ceiling, and it broke right at the elbow. Now realize that this was at the top of the run where the pressure would be the lowest and there is no restriction between there and were it dumps into an open tank. I imagine there would be a small surge because the pump had just turned on, but I can't imagine pressure at that point exceeding maybe 50psi. I thought of this thread immediately. I now KNOW what I will run when I do my garage/shop.
We have 2" diaphram pumps at work that pump waste water to a holding area in another area of the plant. For those that don't know, a diaphram pump used air pressue on diaphrams to pump liquids... the outlet port of the pump will deliver the liquid at the same pressure as the incoming air supply- we run around 95 psi in our plant. The liquid end of these are piped with 2" pvc pipe (some is sch.40 but most is sch.80). So I went to turn on one of these pumps a couple days ago and heard a large loud "crack" and water started coming from the ceiling. The outlet pipe ran up the wall and up to another pipe along the ceiling, and it broke right at the elbow. Now realize that this was at the top of the run where the pressure would be the lowest and there is no restriction between there and were it dumps into an open tank. I imagine there would be a small surge because the pump had just turned on, but I can't imagine pressure at that point exceeding maybe 50psi. I thought of this thread immediately.
I now KNOW what I will run when I do my garage/shop.
