Haying On Shares...What's Customary

[5030]

As the landowner, IF you can get someone to do it for 50/50, good for you.

Before I bought my own equipment, I was doing a 60/40 split with my cousin. (he got the 60) I supplied the grass, fertilize, lime, plus I did the cutting and raking with my tractor. (his mower and rake)

Now, I have well over $100K invested in tractors and equipment, and it's hard for me to turn a profit. I don't cut and bale for anyone else, nor would I even consider haying on shares.

100K is small potatoes.

 

[RickB]

we wont do 50/50 splitt around here at all.now days its 70/30 splitt if you can find a baler to take that deal.you would be better off to hire a custom baler and keep all the hay.

70/30 which way, please?

 

[Bigfoot62]

100K is small potatoes.

You're absolutely correct. Never claimed to be "big time."

Approximately $110 for the 2 tractors that I use to hay for hay production, two mowers, a rake and a baler. (doesn't include the cost of my third tractor, bush hogs, etc.)

My point was that anyone with a significant investment in their equipment will not likely be interested in wearing it out on someone else's crop. (at least not me)

 

[freewookie]

70/30 which way, please?

My 70/30 split is 30 to the landowner. But then again I don't have to brush hog it. I'm looking at eventually accumulating the equipment to do it myself.

 

[holeycow]

it was 1/3 for the owner and 2/3 for the worker around here for years. I would consider 50/50 in these parts fair now, although I haven't done shares in many years.

I just wish I wouldn't have had drought this year. Then I wouldn't have to buy hay.....1/3 of a crop doesn't make enough for the cows

 

[Soggy Bottom Outdoors]

We've had some pretty lively discussion on shares and hay production in different states. So let me get back to the original post, "What is customary in your area?" In my area of KY grass/legume hay is very plentiful in most years so likewise it is cheap. Most any kind of percentage split is unusual. We have next to no dairy farms and though we do have a good number of horse farms alfalfa is the hay of choice. Now before I mentioned "grass/legume hay" in my area that will mean most times 75% grass,(fescue, orchadgrass, timothy, or ryegrass) and 25% legume (red clover, ladino, or in a fall cutting lespedesa). In a previous post I mentioned a fertilizer blend I commonly use for this type of hay which included urea or nitrogen. Legumes do produce, or more correctly with the help of some microbes "fix" much of their needed nitrogen. Much but not all, and difinately not enough to suppy the needs of the surrounding grass. Because of clay type soils clover doesn't persist very long in hay or pasture ground so annual overseeding is common. I mentioned a fertilizer ingredient called DAP (18-46-0), it's commonly applied to alfalfa and bean fields. There is a ingredient called MAP(0-46-0) that was used years ago but it's not even stocked at fertilizer plants now. Ky is not Mn and is not Ny, things are different in different in places. It is what it is.

 

[farmer2009]

Soggy bottom outdoors is pretty close for what he has described here also. But then again it's not far to him. If we share it's 50/50 and landowner fertilizes. If we fertilize it's 100% ours. The land owner gets clean fields twice a year.

 

[bigbull338]

70/30 which way, please?

70% for the custom baler 30% for the owner of the hay meadows.

 

[arlen4720]

Soggy bottom outdoors is pretty close for what he has described here also. But then again it's not far to him. If we share it's 50/50 and landowner fertilizes. If we fertilize it's 100% ours. The land owner gets clean fields twice a year.

I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying the owner "gets clean fields". I'm not talking about ditch hay, I'm talking about tillable acres, put into hay / alfalfa for a crop. Of course the deal would have to exceed the 300 dollars per acre rent that we get for doing nothing.

 

[southerndeere]

We bale 86 acres on halves every year. We do half in round bales an half in square. We have never felt cheated an the land owner is very happy to have hay for this cattle.

 

[farmer2009]

I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying the owner "gets clean fields". I'm not talking about ditch hay, I'm talking about tillable acres, put into hay / alfalfa for a crop. Of course the deal would have to exceed the 300 dollars per acre rent that we get for doing nothing.

If we put in all the work and all the expense and take all the risk and the landowner just wants to collect a check it's worth about $15-20/acre. Most people with 5or 6 acres will tell you not to worry about the $100. It's not ditch hay. It's mainly grass hay with some legumes. Now it's not alfalfa but good beef cattle hay.

If your getting $300 for renting out row crop ground don't even bother with hay. It can't touch row crops if all you want is the money.

 

[arlen4720]

If we put in all the work and all the expense and take all the risk and the landowner just wants to collect a check it's worth about $15-20/acre. Most people with 5or 6 acres will tell you not to worry about the $100. It's not ditch hay. It's mainly grass hay with some legumes. Now it's not alfalfa but good beef cattle hay.

If your getting $300 for renting out row crop ground don't even bother with hay. It can't touch row crops if all you want is the money.

I guess things are different in KY. A good portion of my row crop land is already hay. I'm just thinking about doing it in shares instead of just renting the land out. Good hay is very profitable here in MN. I need quite a bit of hay for my beef cattle, and get tired of renting out land, then buying hay back. I suppose the real answer is to tool up and make my own hay, on my own land.

 

[freewookie]

We bale 86 acres on halves every year. We do half in round bales an half in square. We have never felt cheated an the land owner is very happy to have hay for this cattle.

I'd be happy with halves. If I seed, spray and fertilize 70/30 doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Bigfoot62]

. . . If your getting $300 for renting out row crop ground don't even bother with hay. It can't touch row crops if all you want is the money.

+1
That's what I'm thinking.

 

[farmer2009]

I'd be happy with halves. If I seed, spray and fertilize 70/30 doesn't make a lot of sense.

.

If ourlandowners do that it is a 50/50 split.
Have seen some go 1/3 landowner and 2/3 baler. But man that is hard if landowner is giving any inputs.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

If we put in all the work and all the expense and take all the risk and the landowner just wants to collect a check it's worth about $15-20/acre. Most people with 5or 6 acres will tell you not to worry about the $100. It's not ditch hay. It's mainly grass hay with some legumes. Now it's not alfalfa but good beef cattle hay.

If your getting $300 for renting out row crop ground don't even bother with hay. It can't touch row crops if all you want is the money.

You're getting at the bottom line -- what is it worth to the hayer? Some portion of that is the most the landowner can expect to receive. That number is going to depend on a few other numbers, which vary tremendously by region. The first is the innate productivity of the land. The second is what it costs to take hay from it, including all inputs. The third is the market value of the hay.

Costs and market value are determined by local market conditions. To answer the question for yourself, you have to do some research about the local market. Answers from the rest of the country may be interesting but they're really not of use to you.

Just for curiosity's sake, I'll tell you about how things are in Rhode Island. I have nine acres of hayfields. Grass grows like crazy here, it's the dominant weed. My land used to be a sod farm, it's well watered and rich soil. I have someone come in and cut it once a year and that's all I do. No seeding, no irrigation, no fertilizer.

Last year the guy who cut it got 56 800-lb bales. That's 22.4 tons, or 2.5 tons per acre. He sells those bales on Craigslist for $40 each. That's $100/ton, or $250 acre, or $2240 for the whole cutting. I don't know what it costs him to cut it, but what I have observed is:

1. It takes a not insignificant amount of time. It's a minimum of four trips around the field to cut, tedder, rake and bale, more if it rains. Each trip is about four hours. Plus the time to truck all the equipment in and out, and gather the bales and truck them out.

2. It takes a not insignificant amount of equipment. In the course of the cutting I'll see:
* A disc mower
* A tedder
* A rake
* A baler
* A tractor to pull the mower
* Another tractor to pull the rake and tedder
* Another tractor to pull the baler
* A loader/backhoe to gather the bales
* A flatbed truck to haul the equipment and the bales

3. I've had several different guys do it, and they all seem pretty indifferent about whether they do it or not. Some years I haven't been able to find anyone to do it. Any suggestion on my part that I get anything out of it quickly ends the conversation.

If I had to guess, I would say that all told he nets about $1000 per cutting and puts in 40 hours beginning to end. That works out to $25/hour, which is less than I pay the guy who cuts my grass.

 

[arlen4720]

You're getting at the bottom line -- what is it worth to the hayer? Some portion of that is the most the landowner can expect to receive. That number is going to depend on a few other numbers, which vary tremendously by region. The first is the innate productivity of the land. The second is what it costs to take hay from it, including all inputs. The third is the market value of the hay.

Costs and market value are determined by local market conditions. To answer the question for yourself, you have to do some research about the local market. Answers from the rest of the country may be interesting but they're really not of use to you.

Just for curiosity's sake, I'll tell you about how things are in Rhode Island. I have nine acres of hayfields. Grass grows like crazy here, it's the dominant weed. My land used to be a sod farm, it's well watered and rich soil. I have someone come in and cut it once a year and that's all I do. No seeding, no irrigation, no fertilizer.

Last year the guy who cut it got 56 800-lb bales. That's 22.4 tons, or 2.5 tons per acre. He sells those bales on Craigslist for $40 each. That's $100/ton, or $250 acre, or $2240 for the whole cutting. I don't know what it costs him to cut it, but what I have observed is:

1. It takes a not insignificant amount of time. It's a minimum of four trips around the field to cut, tedder, rake and bale, more if it rains. Each trip is about four hours. Plus the time to truck all the equipment in and out, and gather the bales and truck them out.

2. It takes a not insignificant amount of equipment. In the course of the cutting I'll see:
* A disc mower
* A tedder
* A rake
* A baler
* A tractor to pull the mower
* Another tractor to pull the rake and tedder
* Another tractor to pull the baler
* A loader/backhoe to gather the bales
* A flatbed truck to haul the equipment and the bales

3. I've had several different guys do it, and they all seem pretty indifferent about whether they do it or not. Some years I haven't been able to find anyone to do it. Any suggestion on my part that I get anything out of it quickly ends the conversation.

If I had to guess, I would say that all told he nets about $1000 per cutting and puts in 40 hours beginning to end. That works out to $25/hour, which is less than I pay the guy who cuts my grass.

We get over 4 tons to the acre, and it goes for up to 180 bucks a ton, more if you sit on it till spring.