Kubota braking traction

[iis]

I have a 1200 ft driveway that is steep in one area. I previously used a 4x4 pickup with v bar chains on all wheels. This setup allowed me to grip ice without a problem. I am looking to buy a new B series Kubota(2650 or 3200) and have read all the posts here regarding traction. I know that V bar works great but my concern is now with braking going downhill. It seems to be true that only the back wheels brake (or do the front brake as well through the transmission via 4 wheel drive?). IF the front wheels in fact do not brake, how would this tractor react to ice and vbar chains? Can I turn? Will it want to go sideways? Is this where brake steering comes into play (can a B series even do this?)

Thanks.

 

[art]

When in four wheel drive the same brakes that stop the tractor in two wheel drive also work the fronts via the driveshaft. On paved surfaces we use studs in tires instead of chains.

 

[Travelover]

In 4x4 the front axle is braked via the front driveshaft. Since there is a differential in the front, it is not the same as having brakes on all 4 wheels like a truck.

 

[iis]

OK. This is what I wanted to hear. Does anyone know if these models are able to brake steer?

 

[94BULLITT]

You can also lock the differential while in 4WD for more braking power.

I am 99.9% sure that these tractors have independent brakes.

 

[skyhook]

Weight is your friend in these instances.
You may want to consider a larger tractor for this type of hill.
Have the rear's and fronts loaded, with chains,
turning on any steep hill during winter conditions takes skill, I'm not sure i would want to tackle
the hill you described, in winter, with a B series tractor.

 

[k0ua]

A couple of things, for normal braking if you have a hydrostatic transmission you are not going to be using the brakes on the back axle much anyway, the transmission will be doing most of the braking when you back off of the hydro pedal. As noted, be sure to keep it in 4WD so the contact patch of the front tires will assist in maintaining traction thru the dirveline. If you are in 2WD then only the rear tires will keep you from sliding down the hill, and can easily break traction. Once traction is lost and the tires start to slide, it is very difficult to regain that traction. Now as to the question of brake steering on a Kubota B series. Yes it has independent brakes on each side and you can brake steer with them, but they are inconvenient to use on a hydro equipped machine as the brakes are on the right and so is the hydro pedal. Some folks are good at doing the "Kubota shuffle" and crossing their left leg over and operating the steering brakes. On Gear machines the right side brakes are not a problem as you can set the throttle with the hand lever and your right foot is able to operate the brakes for steering.

 

[TripleR]

A couple of things, for normal braking if you have a hydrostatic transmission you are not going to be using the brakes on the back axle much anyway, the transmission will be doing most of the braking when you back off of the hydro pedal. As noted, be sure to keep it in 4WD so the contact patch of the front tires will assist in maintaining traction thru the dirveline. If you are in 2WD then only the rear tires will keep you from sliding down the hill, and can easily break traction. Once traction is lost and the tires start to slide, it is very difficult to regain that traction. Now as to the question of brake steering on a Kubota B series. Yes it has independent brakes on each side and you can brake steer with them, but they are inconvenient to use on a hydro equipped machine as the brakes are on the right and so is the hydro pedal. Some folks are good at doing the "Kubota shuffle" and crossing their left leg over and operating the steering brakes. On Gear machines the right side brakes are not a problem as you can set the throttle with the hand lever and your right foot is able to operate the brakes for steering.

James, all good points, but the B2650 and B3350 now have the steering brakes on the left like the GL60 Series.

 

[motownbrowne]

Weight is your friend in these instances.
You may want to consider a larger tractor for this type of hill.
Have the rear's and fronts loaded, with chains,
turning on any steep hill during winter conditions takes skill, I'm not sure i would want to tackle
the hill you described, in winter, with a B series tractor.

I disagree with this. I don't see how weight could be your friend. Traction is your friend, chains, 4wd, soft rubber ,studded tires etc. Beyond that, ice is ice. Something really light with great traction would be the best on an icy hill, lots of traction keeping you where you want to be, not much momentum to change when you hit the brakes.

 

[k0ua]

James, all good points, but the B2650 and B3350 now have the steering brakes on the left like the GL60 Series.

Thanks I had forgotten those new models now have left side brakes. I find the left side brakes very convenient to use for steering and holding your push line when pushing snow. When scraping up ice, it often "unloads" the front tires and the steering brakes are the only way to maintain directional control.

 

[iis]

I know that V bar (on a truck) is superior with gripping ice on acceleration and braking, it can almost stop on a dime even going down hill. Would this not be the same for a Kobuta?

 

[JoeL4330]

My hydro (L4330) has its brakes on the "wrong" side (on the right side, next to the go pedal) but if I wished, I could use the speed control lever (aka "cruise control") with my left hand, and work the brakes with my right foot. Not sure I would want the brakes on the left side, which is where the clutch is.

And, II use V-bar chains on the front and they can't tell if they are on a tractor or a truck, so they work exactly as one expects ...

 

[TripleR]

Thanks I had forgotten those new models now have left side brakes. I find the left side brakes very convenient to use for steering and holding your push line when pushing snow. When scraping up ice, it often "unloads" the front tires and the steering brakes are the only way to maintain directional control.

I can sure understand the benefit in some situations especially snow, but it's not an issue down here. I was visiting with my brother yesterday and the issue of braking came up, he has yet to unlock the brakes on his Kioti.

I can easily use steering brakes on my L5740 via the cruise control lever, but rarely have, more out of curiosity. I'm sure it would be a whole different story for others with snow and such. We routinely use the separate brakes on our M8540.

 

[TripleR]

My hydro (L4330) has its brakes on the "wrong" side (on the right side, next to the go pedal) but if I wished, I could use the speed control lever (aka "cruise control") with my left hand, and work the brakes with my right foot. Not sure I would want the brakes on the left side, which is where the clutch is

Same here, one of the reasons I bought my L5740 and traded in a perfectly good L5030 was to avoid the left foot brakes on the new L60, but I'm in the minority on this.

We have left foot brakes on our John Deere and hate it as does my wife.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Same here, one of the reasons I bought my L5740 and traded in a perfectly good L5030 was to avoid the left foot brakes on the new L60, but I'm in the minority on this.

We have left foot brakes on our John Deere and hate it as does my wife.

I suppose having the brakes on the left would take some getting use to, but not near the difficulty of trying to use them on the right and use the HST pedal at the same time. Not many HST tractors have a clutch.

 

[art]

IT really depends on your driveway as to the use of chains or not!!! No matter how you look at chains are great out in uncharted fields with two or three feet of snow to drive through but on a driveway the tires are normally(should be behind the snow removal device)not in deep snow so to have deep pockets between chain lugs simply raise the tires from doing anything!
On ice without chains turf tires give the best traction although on hills they can slide which creates problems if you go off the driveway. This is where we found that screw in studs are the best for most occasions to work on ice. The studs give a great ride and not hinder road speeds if needed.

 

[TripleR]

I suppose having the brakes on the left would take some getting use to, but not near the difficulty of trying to use them on the right and use the HST pedal at the same time. Not many HST tractors have a clutch.

Yeah, like I said, I accept I am in the minority and Kubota is moving the brakes to the left on new HST models as well as eliminating the clutch on the HST.

I grew up farming using the steering brakes constantly for traction control and tight turns and as mentioned use them on our M8540, I just don't need them on the L5740 or any other CUT. I often use both several times a day and on a couple of OH HECK occasions, my right foot hit the brakes before I had time to think; this is not going to be an issue for others.

 

[iis]

OK,

I should have mentioned that the reason I need Vbar is because I have a slope that has a 20-25 grade and it will ice over.

Anyways, so far I learned that Vbar is Vbar and along with having the tires loaded + ballast box it will grip.

Braking:
If I have the diff locked and in 4 wheel then I am technically stopping the wheels in the front via the tranny.

Thanks for the advice, 20 grand is not chump change for me.

 

[k0ua]

I got chains on my rear tires last winter, (worst snow and Ice here for some years) and it made a huge difference, I have the Aquiline talons, not exactly V bar but close. But even at that I still needed my steering brakes to maintain a straight line when pulling a big load of snow with the back blade. Fortunately my steering brakes are on the left side (no clutch) and the twin directional pedals are on the right, so being a fairly normal human with only 2 legs and feet, I was good to go..

Without the chains, I just slid down the hill, and almost never made it back to the barn. I had to use the bucket to claw my way back up enough to get it in the barn driveway and put away. And even as I was backing into the barn the stupid thing wanted to go sideways. I was very glad to get the barn door closed. The only way I made it back to the house on foot was that I had the good sense to screw a half dozen hex head screws into each boot before I went outside. It makes a heck of a difference and so do the chains.:thumbsup:

 

[dfkrug]

I disagree with this. I don't see how weight could be your friend. Traction is
your friend, chains, 4wd, soft rubber ,studded tires etc. Beyond that, ice is ice. Something really light with great
traction would be the best on an icy hill, lots of traction keeping you where you want to be, not much momentum
to change when you hit the brakes.

F = (mu) x N,
where F is the forward force vector that results from a wheel turning against a horizontal surface,
mu is the coefficient of friction,
and N it the downward force vector, aka weight

So your ability to move your tractor requires friction AND weight. More of
each will help transfer wheel forces into the road.

Of course, momentum due to the mass of the tractor will have to be overcome to start
the motion, as well as stop it once you are moving.