Is my MF 231 running too hot??

[Winmac]

I may be able to explain a couple of the new issues you created, let's see a picture of the underside of the new cap.

 

[Travis_R]

I may be able to explain a couple of the new issues you created, let's see a picture of the underside of the new cap.

I did create new issues, but whatever it takes to get the cooling system how it's supposed to be. There's no doubt it wasn't right before. I'll get to the bottom of it however long it takes. Done come too far to give up!

Here are the pics...

 

[Winmac]

It's a very odd looking cap... But I suspect that it is designed to hold a vacuum, some are not.
What dose this mean if you had the cap off with hot coolant then reinstalled it and allowed the system to cool. You now have a negative pressure in the system, this will collapse the rad hoses.

Same deal trying to drain the rad with the cap on, you need to allow air in the top before water flows out.

 

[Travis_R]

What dose this mean if you had the cap off with hot coolant then reinstalled it and allowed the system to cool. You now have a negative pressure in the system, this will collapse the rad hoses.

When I had the tractor running up to temp, I removed the cap to look at the water/see what it was doing.
I reinstalled the cap and let the engine idle a minute. I shut the engine off and went and drank a few cups of coffee. I gave the engine long enough time to cool off completely. No warmth on the engine whatsoever.
When I came back, I noticed the bottom radiator hose was completely collapsed. All the other hoses were fine.
I then opened up the radiator cap and the hose immediately expanded again.

So what you're saying is normal??

Thanks

 

[Winmac]

It's not normal to take a cap off a hot engine......

Just trying to explain away your new "problems"

 

[Travis_R]

I just can't understand why the needle on the temp gauge is right at the white mark (verge of running hot according to gage) when the infrared thermometer is reading 180F at the thermostat housing.
It really makes me scratch my head.

Like I stated earlier, it either has to be a faulty sending unit, AND/OR a faulty temp gauge.

They're ordered, but just can't get here fast enough.

I think I'm gonna pull the radiator off in the morning and go have it tested.. Especially since I'm waiting on the other 2 parts to arrive.

Since I've been draining and adding water, I'm now starting to see a good bit of rusty/brown color.

 

[TomSeller]

Now here is a new problem that I KNOW isn't right.

I took the bottom hose off the radiator (cold engine).. Took radiator cap off and filled radiator up with garden hose through the bottom of radiator. When the water came out the top of the radiator I put the cap back on and sealed the bottom of the radiator opening with my hand.

Well guess what?! No water came out the radiator UNTIL I removed the cap!! Then all the water came out!
.

Travis, have you ever been served a soda and inserted a straw to the bottom of the glass, then capped the top with your thumb while pulling the straw out of the soda? The soda stays in the straw, doesn't it? The air is not able to make it up the straw to allow the soda to drain back out. The radiator tubes are like straws. The air can not make it up the small tubes to allow the coolant to drain. When you take off the cap, it allows air to displace the coolant in the tubes from the top.

 

[Travis_R]

And another important thing...

When I first start the engine, and have the radiator cap off, water tends to "push out" the top of the radiator neck as the engine warms up.

It never did this with the old cap. Not sure if it's supposed to do this or not.

 

[TomSeller]

And another important thing...

When I first start the engine, and have the radiator cap off, water tends to "push out" the top of the radiator neck as the engine warms up.

It never did this with the old cap. Not sure if it's supposed to do this or not.

The cap is off, how can it have anything to do with the coolant level?

 

[Travis_R]

Travis, have you ever been served a soda and inserted a straw to the bottom of the glass, then capped the top with your thumb while pulling the straw out of the soda? The soda stays in the straw, doesn't it? The air is not able to make it up the straw to allow the soda to drain back out. The radiator tubes are like straws. The air can not make it up the small tubes To allow the coolant to drain.

Thanks Tom, I never looked at it that way. It is normal then. I thought it wasn't but it makes perfect sense now.

 

[Travis_R]

The cap is off, how can it have anything to do with the coolant level?

Maybe it has to do with the different thermostats, I'm not sure. But is it normal for water to be pushed out the top of the radiator as the engine warms up? I don't remember it doing this with the old thermostat.

Sometimes I tend to confuse myself. (As if u didn't already know LOL)

 

[Winmac]

water tends to "push out" the top of the radiator neck as the engine warms up.

What creates the pressure in the cooling system? Is it the pump,nope.....
When heat is applied to a liquid it's volume expands, simple physics.

 

[Travis_R]

What creates the pressure in the cooling system? Is it the pump,nope..... When heat is applied to a liquid it's volume expands, simple physics.

And I thought it was the pump the whole time.

Well so far then, everything is making sense except that dang gauge!

Would it be a correct reading to shoot the infrared thermometer on the outside of the sending unit?? If so, it read 143-145 If I remember correctly.

 

[TomSeller]

Maybe it has to do with the different thermostats, I'm not sure. But is it normal for water to be pushed out the top of the radiator as the engine warms up? I don't remember it doing this with the old thermostat.

Sometimes I tend to confuse myself. (As if u didn't already know LOL)

This is not a concern. Your new thermostat is opening earlier and apparently faster than the old one. Once the coolant is pumped to the top of the radiator it has to drain down to the bottom without the cap being on the radiator to "push it". Potentially your lower hose may be partially collapsing at the same time and not "drawing" the coolant down the radiator. In addition, as has been mentioned the coolant pushed into the top of the radiator is now warm, taking up more volume.

 

[Travis_R]

This is not a concern. Your new thermostat is opening earlier and apparently faster than the old one. Once the coolant is pushed to the top of the radiator it has to drain down to the bottom without the cap being on the radiator to "push it". Potentially your lower hose may be partially collapsing at the same time and not "drawing" the coolant down the radiator. In addition, as has bee mentioned the coolant pushed into the top of the radiator is now warm, taking up more volume.

Now I understand how this works. Thanks

So now the question is why the high temp reading on the gage.

Still plan on removing the radiator in the morning to have it tested... More peace of mind.

 

[JMER817]

OMG. Is this post a joke??

 

[TomSeller]

So now the question is why the high temp reading on the gage.
.

This has been discussed ad nauseam. One, the other, or both are bad.

 

[Travis_R]

OMG. Is this post a joke??

Please elaborate.

 

[Winmac]

Would it be a correct reading to shoot the infrared thermometer on the outside of the sending unit?? .

Shooting the Tstat housing will give the best indicator of operating temp.

 

[buickanddeere]

Just performed another test..

With the radiator cap on, tractor high idling around 1800 RPMs for about 10-15 minutes, the temp. in the upper radiator fins was around 155F.... The bottom fins read around 85F.... The thermostat housing was reading right at 180F.

I took the wire off on the sending unit and put the infrared light on the brass part of the sending unit. Removing the wire disables the temp gauge completely.
The reading I got was around 143F-147F.... When the wire was plugged back in, the temp gauge needle was still almost to the red (white) just like the previous posted picture.

Again, this is telling me either the sending unit, temp gauge, or both is bad.

Based on the info I posted, does anyone disagree with this?

It means there is nothing broken and everything is working to spec.