Is my MF 231 running too hot??

[Winmac]

Also I forgot to ask, was I supposed to "burp" the coolant system or something?

No need to burp the system when the Tstat has an air bleed hole or jiggle valve

 

[Travis_R]

No need to burp the system when the Tstat has an air bleed hole or jiggle valve

Learned something new again..

 

[Travis_R]

Sawtooth, Tom,

Did u get a chance to read my last lengthy post?

 

[TomSeller]

Sawtooth, Tom,

Did u get a chance to read my last lengthy post?

Travis,

I really think you are in over your head. I suggest you have a mechanic look at it.

 

[Travis_R]

Travis, I really think you are in over your head. I suggest you have a mechanic look at it.

I'm gonna look into it a little more. If I can't fix it then I'll get a mechanic. I'm almost leaning towards the radiator may be blocked, but a ways from being sure.

 

[Travis_R]

Almost positive I got the problem(s) narrowed down. FINALLY.

As for the alternator or the radiator, they are fine! When the radiator cap fell off, it hit the cooling fins on the alternator and bent them in just enough to make them rub against the housing.
Took a screwdriver and bent the fins out some. Problem solved.

But look at the pic below. This is with the tractor high idling at 1900 RPMs, no engine load, no radiator blockage...

Look at how high the needle is on the gauge, almost in the white (which is a sun faded red color) and the temperature at the Tstat housing is 178F-180.5F

The radiator will boil over now if I remove the new cap. Never did that with the old cap like I knew it should. So now it's holding pressure.

So what I've concluded is either the Temp Sending Unit is bad, AND/OR the Temp Gauge is bad.
Good news is I placed an order for both of them yesterday evening.

I'm wondering if I should change both (if they're both bad), or only the one that's defective.

Since it's easy to do, I'm gonna change out the sending unit first, to see what the old gauge reads... If it don't read high, we'll know the sending unit was the problem.
If it still reads high, I'll install the new gauge and see what it reads.

It's either gonna be one of the other, or both. There's always that chance of being wrong, but I feel very confident this is it.

 

[CalG]

How did you get water to boil at 180 degrees F?

'Tis a miracle I tell ya'! OR else that new radiator cap pulls a vacuum instead of holding pressure.

 

[Travis_R]

How did you get water to boil at 180 degrees F?

'Tis a miracle I tell ya'! OR else that new radiator cap pulls a vacuum instead of holding pressure.

You have a good point. Never thought about that. But I'm not sure the water was actually boiling. When I removed the cap water came out the top.

I do remember 1 time I opened the drain valve on the bottom of the radiator, water barely came out and completely stopped. Then I open the radiator cap and water poured out the drain valve until I closed it off.

Not sure if this is normal or not but this is what it did.

 

[Travis_R]

How did you get water to boil at 180 degrees F? 'Tis a miracle I tell ya'! OR else that new radiator cap pulls a vacuum instead of holding pressure.

Like I stated, you do have a good point but none of the radiator hoses are collapsed either.

 

[Travis_R]

Wether it matters or not, I also wanted to mention that I noticed when the water was cold and the radiator cap off, the water was wanting to rise up in the neck of the radiator. when the engine was high idling. It would have came out if I left the cap off long enough.
...only did this since the new 180F thermostat was installed.

 

[Travis_R]

Just performed another test..

With the radiator cap on, tractor high idling around 1800 RPMs for about 10-15 minutes, the temp. in the upper radiator fins was around 155F.... The bottom fins read around 85F.... The thermostat housing was reading right at 180F.

I took the wire off on the sending unit and put the infrared light on the brass part of the sending unit. Removing the wire disables the temp gauge completely.
The reading I got was around 143F-147F.... When the wire was plugged back in, the temp gauge needle was still almost to the red (white) just like the previous posted picture.

Again, this is telling me either the sending unit, temp gauge, or both is bad.

Based on the info I posted, does anyone disagree with this?

 

[murphy1244]

You should get a Tractor Mechanic and leave that poor machine alone.

 

[Travis_R]

You should get a Tractor Mechanic and leave that poor machine alone.

If the new sending unit and temp gauge doesn't solve the problem, I will get a mechanic. Until then, I'm not giving up.

I may still need to get the radiator rodded out also. Not sure about that just yet either.

These are all things I can do on my own.

Thanks for your concern.

 

[Travis_R]

After coming back from letting the engine cool completely, I found the bottom radiator hose to be COMPLETELY collapsed. When I opened the radiator cap, the hose immediately swelled back up.

So now..???

 

[CalG]

Just performed another test..

With the radiator cap on, tractor high idling around 1800 RPMs for about 10-15 minutes, the temp. in the upper radiator fins was around 155F.... The bottom fins read around 85F.... The thermostat housing was reading right at 180F.

I took the wire off on the sending unit and put the infrared light on the brass part of the sending unit. Removing the wire disables the temp gauge completely.
The reading I got was around 143F-147F.... When the wire was plugged back in, the temp gauge needle was still almost to the red (white) just like the previous posted picture.

Again, this is telling me either the sending unit, temp gauge, or both is bad.

Based on the info I posted, does anyone disagree with this?

Travis

Your investigation is good and very useful.

You have now "calibrated" your present temperature guage. So now, when you see the needle "almost to the red" you know that everything is fine and normal.

Now do the same thing with the radiator blocked , fast idle (say 900-1000 rpm) and everything stabilized.

The needle should be in the red. Make similar measurements of all the points as you have just done. Write them down! Now you have a second condition of calibration for your present gauge.

Monitor the temperature of the top tank. if it gets above 220F pull off the radiator block, idle down, and let things cool off. DON'T open the radiator cap untill temps are less than 180!

Collapsing hoses on cool down is not particularly significant. Some hoses have a coil of wire in them to hold them open.

If the pipe were collapsed and the system hot and "under pressure", that would not be good.

You could get yourself a new lower radiator hose, I bet the present one is old.

Don't expect a new sending unit and guage to be "accurate". Think of it as an indicator.
Something that has been a theme of the reponses in this thread.

cheers

 

[CalG]

Wether it matters or not, I also wanted to mention that I noticed when the water was cold and the radiator cap off, the water was wanting to rise up in the neck of the radiator. when the engine was high idling. It would have came out if I left the cap off long enough.
...only did this since the new 180F thermostat was installed.

Travis

Have you noticed that on cars there is always a coolant overflow catch tank? But on old tractors there are not. The coolant level rising with temp is normal. It is due to a combination of things ;-)

cheers

 

[Travis_R]

The hose wasn't collapsed when the engine was running. It was collapsed AFTER COMPLETE cool down.

After reading other threads, I'm thinking I may have installed the 180F thermostat upside down!

Could this have anything to do with the bottom hose collapsing?

What other noticeable problems would I see if the thermostat was upside down?

 

[Travis_R]

Now here is a new problem that I KNOW isn't right.

I took the bottom hose off the radiator (cold engine).. Took radiator cap off and filled radiator up with garden hose through the bottom of radiator. When the water came out the top of the radiator I put the cap back on and sealed the bottom of the radiator opening with my hand.

Well guess what?! No water came out the radiator UNTIL I removed the cap!! Then all the water came out!

This is a brand new aftermarket radiator cap from "A&I Products". I ordered it online.

4) things now...

1) get a new OEM radiator cap from Massey?

2) go ahead and have the radiator checked?

3) take thermostat back out and make sure I installed it correctly!!! (((Good thing I bought an extra gasket huh! LOL)))

4) replace lower radiator hose??

*** hose never gave me a problem til new cap was installed***

Regardless of all this, so far I am still able to do ALL of this by myself.

 

[Travis_R]

Ok now that I think about it, the thermostat is installed correctly.

While I'm into it, I'm probably gonna go ahead and pull the radiator off and get it tested.
After all, the tractor is 16 years old and it's not gonna be difficult to take it off with the hood already off the tractor. Wether it's a problem or not, it surely can't hurt to have it done.