Third function for loader

[cj7m57]

Am thinking of getting a thumb-type grapple for my loader bucket, and am trying to figure how to hook up the grapple cylinder. I have a ford 1910 with a 770b loader, and no remotes. The 1910 has an auxiliary hydraulic port, which is intended to supply hydraulic flow for a backhoe, etc, when the position control lever is put into a slot at the top of its range.

This setup works ok to supply a woodsplitter now, so I am thinking I could use this port, run through the appropriate open center DA valve (like item 9-7861 at the surplus center website), to run a thumb. I know little about hydraulics, so wanted to see what people think.

The only disadvantage is see is that I would need to have the three point raised whenever using the thumb, but I would be using a concrete counterweight when using the thumb in any case, so probably not a problem.

Does anyone see any issues with doing it this way, or a better way that doesn't cost a lot more?

 

[J_J]

When you are using the BH hyd supply, do you have use of the 3pt?

If you need 3pt and are using the BH hyd supply, then the grapple valve has to have a PB outlet.

The PB from the grapple valve will feed the 3pt, and all tank limes go to tank. Then you will have use of all valves.

9-7861 http://www.surpluscenter.com/_MoreSpecs/iPrinceMBValves.pdf

INSTALL THE HIGH
PRESSURE CARRY OVER PLUG
(1/4-18 BSPT) INTO THE
INTERNAL THREADS TO THE
INSIDE OF THE "C" PORT.

 

[cj7m57]

The aux port is kind of different- it only has flow when the position control lever is all the way up. You put the lever in a slot over the highest setting, and the 3 point lift arms go to full height and stay there, and only then there is flow through the port.

So the 3 point must be part of the circuit somehow, because the lift arms stay up even under load while the aux port is in use (which was not great when using the 3 point splitter). I suppose having power beyond might be good for future use in any case, even if it would cost a bit more now.

 

[the old grind]

It seems that plumbing an electro-hydraulic '3rd function' onto the loader valve (a diverter, more or less) is what my grapple builder recommends. Using a finger-tip button/sw added to the stick, the curl spool controls the 3rd function to operate the lid (or other remote accessory) up or down when engaged. Either cylinder(s) remains locked when using the other 'function'.

I plan to start or embellish a thread when I get the whole thing put together and working. There is no need for, or confusion with, PB's intended use/operation and I'll let y'uns know somewhere if it all goes as easily as it sounds.

 

[J_J]

What you are talking about is a diverter/selector valve.

This is what you want if you want to use the curl or up/dn circuit for the grapple.

SAE 8 6 GPM DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE 12 VDC P15544-2

SAE 8 15 GPM DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE 12 VDC P15544-1

 

[ovrszd]

I agree with JJ. I'd go with a diverter setup. You'll like it just fine and it won't have any affect on the other functions at the rear of your tractor.

 

[the old grind]

Tony at MI&E showed me a 6-port, spring return, single solenoid valve, somewhat like EA's shown here, to add the 3rd function:
Add 3rd function to your tractor


(Click to see larger image)

Of course one line is teed to both curl cylinders and there will be only one cyl for the lid. P-1 & P-2 connect to the existing lines from the curl spool.

 

[ovrszd]

Yep, that's your average Diverter Valve.

 

[J_J]

That diverter valve should not be over $150.

Surplus quit carrying that valve.

Baileynet had them for even less.

More expensive selector/diverter valve.

http://www.hydraulicstore.com/index.php?loc=items_detail&data[major]=1&data[keys]=7120001&data[catalog]=1&data[itemcode]=7120001

 

[MtnViewRanch]

JJ, can you point me in the direction or where that valve can be purchased for $150. I had never seen them below the $160 that SC use to sell them at and my guess is that there is now no surplus, so that is probably why SC does not have them any longer.

I never saw that valve at Baileys, they have a cheap imitation that I have seen for $110.

The Hydraulic store has them, but they are over $200.

There are lots of other valves out there, none quite as clean as the Bosch unit IMO.

Just my :2cents:

 

[J_J]

The selector/diverter at Baileys is the low price valve I mentioned.

I don't think I would go so far as saying they are inferior to any other valve.

I would think that if there were any problems with that valve, they would have lots of returns and they would probably pull the item.

I guess the supply at Surplus dried up.

This valve was used quite often in the past as the selector valve to install for grapple.

SAE 8 6 GPM DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE 12 VDC P15544-2

 

[cj7m57]

Lots of good info and links! I'll have to think about this some- seems like the diverter is the better set-up, but a bit more expensive (am guessing $200 with diverter, switch, etc. versus $100 for a valve off the aux port (yes, I'm cheap)) and a bit more complex to install.

As always, I'm glad I asked the question- thanks everyone for the advice!

 

[J_J]

This valve is the manual version of the diver/selector valve with 6 ports.

1/2" NPT 20 GPM DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE

This is a detented valve, otherwise it will stay where you leave it.

 

[ovrszd]

Lots of good info and links! I'll have to think about this some- seems like the diverter is the better set-up, but a bit more expensive (am guessing $200 with diverter, switch, etc. versus $100 for a valve off the aux port (yes, I'm cheap)) and a bit more complex to install.

As always, I'm glad I asked the question- thanks everyone for the advice!

We're all cheap in some way or another. In this case, if you truly need 3rd function, you will use it a lot, and the diverter method will become your favorite. At least 80% of my FEL use is 3rd function, the smallest details become very important as to the setup and it's function.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

The selector/diverter at Baileys is the low price valve I mentioned.

I don't think I would go so far as saying they are inferior to any other valve.

I would think that if there were any problems with that valve, they would have lots of returns and they would probably pull the item.

I guess the supply at Surplus dried up.

This valve was used quite often in the past as the selector valve to install for grapple.

SAE 8 6 GPM DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE 12 VDC P15544-2

I didn't say it was an inferior valve, I said it was a cheap imitation. Ports are closer, which limits how to plumb and it is rough finished bare steel on the outside. Not smooth and plated. They both work, I sell both types, not many of my customers choose the $110 unit.

 

[cj7m57]

JJ, the manual option you mention, how would that work? Do you push the lever on the selector into detent to select the third function and then use the curl function lever to operate the grapple cylinder? Or does the diverter lever itself control the grapple cylinder function directly? I assume the latter but want to be sure I'm understanding correctly.

 

[J_J]

You first push the diverter/selector to select which function you want, grapple or curl and then use the loader valve to operate that cyl.

The selector valve just routes the fluid.

 

[cj7m57]

OK, I'm convinced that the diverter approach is the right way to go- the availability of a manual diverter means the setup is as simple to install as the other option, and comparable cost. I was a bit worried about losing the ability to curl and use the grapple at the same time, but since I can barely walk and chew gum at the same time, I don't think that is a real concern. More important is not losing the 3 point hitch functionality. It would be good to have the grapple available to move that log that you 'find' with the front tires while bush hogging- it would be hard to engage the aux port with the bush hog on the back, so the diverter is the better option. Thanks to all for the help!