Alternative Energy projects

[3930dave]

Figured it was about time I quit dropping these things into other threads, and set up a dedicated one.....

This vid shows how folks on this BC island get by w/o power. Not a How To, just What Do They Use ?

16x9 - Off The Grid: Living off land hour from Vancouver - YouTube

Shows very basic approaches, a small water turbine, and one that is "If you have to ask, you can't afford it".

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Big project in Spain. Likely not suited for ice/snow locations like here, but can generate tremendous daytime electrical energy in the right locations.

Part of the project involves energy storage in salt.

BBC - Future - Salty solution to storing solar

Funded out of the UAE.

Rgds, D.

 

[weedpharma]

Not permanent living but still self sufficient for long weekends. I have an on site caravan under a steel roof. It is powered by solar panels (about 200W) and stored in a large bank of secondhand UPS batteries. The storage is around 2.5kwh. It powers a 2.5kw inverter.

There is a solar HWS (recycled and repaired when my house unit developed a small leak) gravity fed from a tank on a hill. This is fed by pumping water from my dam. I have two showers attached to verandah posts.

Drinking water is rainwater collected from the shed. Heating is LPG via a burner on the stove.

The dunny is a composting hole in the ground. It is in a small shed and has a throne consisting of a box around a 20ltr bucket with the bottom removed. It has a chimney into the pit with an extraction fan powered by a solar panel as well as another powered on for a minute every ten minutes powered from the battery bank. There is very little smell as the fans remove it before it becomes a problem.

I have had up to twenty people over four days and had a fridge running.

Wherever possible I have used recycled materials. Friends know to offer any materials they no longer need!

Weedpharma

 

[3930dave]

Nice setup Weedpharma.

If I remember right, you are in Oz, so you have plenty of photons to go around !

On the fridge, was that electric, or propane ?

Recycling is a good way to go, for a few reasons - helps get people past the cost hurdle, real or perceived, being one.

Regards, D.

 

[3930dave]

Interesting DIY site, with categories other than just solar.

BuildItSolar: Solar energy projects for Do It Yourselfers to save money and reduce pollution

Rgds, D.

 

[weedpharma]

Nice setup Weedpharma.

If I remember right, you are in Oz, so you have plenty of photons to go around !

On the fridge, was that electric, or propane ?

Recycling is a good way to go, for a few reasons - helps get people past the cost hurdle, real or perceived, being one.

Regards, D.

Yes is in Oz. The fridge is electric and we only use it if there is a crowd. When we go for a weekend, we take an esky with ice.

Our city home also has 2kw solar system.

By the length and participation, we may be the only ones into renewables

Another interesting site is an American magazine Home Power. Has a lot of info on DIY renewables.

Weedpharma

 

[downsizingnow48]

Hey I subscribed havent had time to read the links yet. We have a place near Ft Bragg on California's north coast where both electricity and propane are costly, while photons can be hard to come by, so always interested in cost effective alternatives.

 

[3930dave]

Yes is in Oz. The fridge is electric and we only use it if there is a crowd. When we go for a weekend, we take an esky with ice.

Our city home also has 2kw solar system.

By the length and participation, we may be the only ones into renewables

Another interesting site is an American magazine Home Power. Has a lot of info on DIY renewables.

Weedpharma

Good point on Home Power - I've been an avid reader of their publication for a long time. I like the structured/consistent way they present breakdowns on project cost.

Part of why I asked about the fridge is I'm looking for user feedback on something like a DC Sunfrost - that's one thing on my long term wish list.

I've sprinkled AltNRG references into various threads in the past.... just trying to get organized here.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Hey I subscribed havent had time to read the links yet. We have a place near Ft Bragg on California's north coast where both electricity and propane are costly, while photons can be hard to come by, so always interested in cost effective alternatives.

I've driven through that area of NorCal once - definitely want to make it back one day, as it's lovely country.

Sent a buddy in BC (similar climate to you) the last link, for the hydro gen listings.

Rdgs, D.

 

[cqaigy2]

While not exactly DIY, there is an interesting building in Seattle called Bullitt Center. It has a living building designation that means all the energy, water and sewer is produced and treated on site. One of the interesting things is that even in Seattle they can produce enough power for their needs.

 

[3930dave]

While not exactly DIY, there is an interesting building in Seattle called Bullitt Center. It has a living building designation that means all the energy, water and sewer is produced and treated on site. One of the interesting things is that even in Seattle they can produce enough power for their needs.

It's rare that a commercial building takes an all encompassing approach like that, I'll have to check it out. A lot of energy can be recovered, once a holistic approach like that is taken.

Often, these technologies are commonly used in other parts of the world; nonetheless locally here often the biggest barrier to implementation is the building code.

A big problem in commercial buildings is heating/cooling. The energy requirements are quite large with many forms of conventional construction - get that problem under control, and your energy use drops significantly. Large scale HVAC seems particularily slow to innovate - in discussing what is considered leading edge (therefore seldom implemented) with my HVAC contractor neighbour, I found out approaches hadn't advanced much from what the company I used to work for chose to use in a custom designed building. Granted, I worked for a respected technical company (but it was not involved in HVAC), and "The Guy" in charge of ram-rodding the design (my boss) was way sharper than the average bear - but that was 20 years ago !

If the electronics industry moved like this, we'd still think an LED calculator is state-of-the-art !

Rgds, D.

 

[weedpharma]

Part of why I asked about the fridge is I'm looking for user feedback on something like a DC Sunfrost - that's one thing on my long term wish list.

.

I have recently got an Engel 40ltr chest fridge. After having an old one for about 30 yrs, I was surprised at how little it needed to run. In a room of about 25 deg, it used about 24ah at 12v, a day.

I don't use it on the farm as it is too awkward for one person to handle easily.

Weedpharma

 

[3930dave]

I have recently got an Engel 40ltr chest fridge. After having an old one for about 30 yrs, I was surprised at how little it needed to run. In a room of about 25 deg, it used about 24ah at 12v, a day.

I don't use it on the farm as it is too awkward for one person to handle easily.

Weedpharma

Thanks Weedpharma. I'll add Engel to my list.

Modern inverters are pretty good, but on something that runs as much as a fridge/freezer, I'd like to use DC.

Rgds, D.

 

[westcliffe01]

These kinds of money losing projects are exactly the reason why Spain is broke right now. They went on a huge spending spree with easy borrowing after joining the EU until reality caught up with them about 5-8 years later...

There is absolutely nothing novel regarding using molten salt to store energy. People have experimented with using it to store waste heat from the engine exhaust to improve fuel efficiency by pre-heating the engine from cold and making the catalyst work faster. But there is no way to do it in a cost effective way. It seems like a poor use of a lot of exotic material and you would have to imagine how long a place like that would be down after a close call with a tornado or hurricane and it would be a sight to see the landscape flooded with potentially toxic salt at 1000F like lava....

Big project in Spain. Likely not suited for ice/snow locations like here, but can generate tremendous daytime electrical energy in the right locations.

Part of the project involves energy storage in salt.

BBC - Future - Salty solution to storing solar

Funded out of the UAE.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

These kinds of money losing projects are exactly the reason why Spain is broke right now. They went on a huge spending spree with easy borrowing after joining the EU until reality caught up with them about 5-8 years later...

There is absolutely nothing novel regarding using molten salt to store energy. People have experimented with using it to store waste heat from the engine exhaust to improve fuel efficiency by pre-heating the engine from cold and making the catalyst work faster. But there is no way to do it in a cost effective way. It seems like a poor use of a lot of exotic material and you would have to imagine how long a place like that would be down after a close call with a tornado or hurricane and it would be a sight to see the landscape flooded with potentially toxic salt at 1000F like lava....

Many technologies don't come out of the gate being cost effective.... but I'm going to assume that you already know that...... so I'm not sure where you are coming from.

Are you saying that energy storage is difficult, so we shouldn't bother ?

Any industrial project has inherent risks. Like any major power plant, I'd expect all local significant risk factors to be accounted for in the design. Not sure if Spain has any notable hurricane or tornado risk; nonetheless I can't imagine this plant being built close enough to a populated area for molten salt to be a public concern.

Risk containment is a standard part of power distribution design. A conventional power substation has large transformers that are oil cooled. Despite various levels of safeguards, transformer fires can and do happen. Concrete catch basins are designed as a last ditch containment measure - you can end up with a spectacular oil fire, but it is contained.

We could eliminate all risks, by shutting down the grid altogether, but I don't think most people would vote for that approach.

Lithium is an extremely reactive metal - remember the early lithium battery fires ? Now people routinely hold these batteries in their hands, or beside their head for hours at a time each day.

Some technologies take decades to find a market acceptable home - fax machine technology dates back to at least the 1930s.

Without people willing to take on the financial and occasional physical risks present in the early stages of technology development, none of our dirt cheap "necessities" of modern life would exist.

For all the benefits that could flow from such a development, I'd like to see the Holy Grail of low-cost energy storage attained sooner rather than later. Getting there will take heading down dead-ends, and spending research money - if it was easy, we'd be there by now.

Spain is hardly the first country to explore fiscal irresponsibility, but this forum isn't the right place to engage in that type of discussion.

Rgds, D.

 

[LAFarm]

Interesting DIY site, with categories other than just solar.

BuildItSolar: Solar energy projects for Do It Yourselfers to save money and reduce pollution

Rgds, D.

Great site. Have earth coupled heat pumps in my home & work shop. One is vertical loops (wells) and other is horizontal loops. Also installed 15kw of grid tie solar panels. Experimented with home built solar pool heater. Don't be afraid to pursue energy conservation projects, many qualify for tax credits and have the potential to pay for themselves in a relatively short time compared to their anticipated lifetime. The money you save on utility bills can really make a difference each month after the initial pay-back period. Good luck!!

 

[dave1949]

Given the chance to build new in many locations, I think a person's home should be their first alt nrg project. With correct building designs, it is easy to reduce home energy needs to a bare minimum; the need for geothermal or other expensive systems, all with failure points, is eliminated.

Here is an article about passive homes that have very minimal heating needs. The comment that they should be called "resilient" homes is true and worth considering.
Super-insulated and Passive Homes laugh at the polar vortex : TreeHugger

I live in a direct-gain passive solar home, the article is realistic, not pie in the sky stuff.

 

[3930dave]

Great site. Have earth coupled heat pumps in my home & work shop. One is vertical loops (wells) and other is horizontal loops. Also installed 15kw of grid tie solar panels. Experimented with home built solar pool heater. Don't be afraid to pursue energy conservation projects, many qualify for tax credits and have the potential to pay for themselves in a relatively short time compared to their anticipated lifetime. The money you save on utility bills can really make a difference each month after the initial pay-back period. Good luck!!

Nice setup LA !

I knew somebody with a solar heating system on their pool here.

Worth noting:

1) That pool was in Ottawa, definitely a Northern climate. Our summer temperatures often look like a Spring day in the Southern USA.

2) That system was installed in the mid-1970s, around the time of the first big oil shock.

3) Their pool got hot enough they had to turn the solar system Off for a good part of the Summer.

4) The roof that system was installed on was somewhat obstructed by other residential buildings and trees to the South. It didn't have ideal southern exposure - not terrible exposure, but definitely not ideal.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Given the chance to build new in many locations, I think a person's home should be their first alt nrg project. With correct building designs, it is easy to reduce home energy needs to a bare minimum; the need for geothermal or other expensive systems, all with failure points, is eliminated.

Here is an article about passive homes that have very minimal heating needs. The comment that they should be called "resilient" homes is true and worth considering.
Super-insulated and Passive Homes laugh at the polar vortex : TreeHugger

I live in a direct-gain passive solar home, the article is realistic, not pie in the sky stuff.

That is a great point Dave, and definitely something that should be considered when you are planning your own home.

Both Hot and Cold, people lived in extreme environments long before electricity came along - the rules of Fizx (Physics) have not changed in the intervening centuries or millenia.

I was reading a Globe and Mail article concerning a mine in the Canadian high Arctic. The reporter was talking with an engineer about the generators they run to power the whole installation - he said "If these generators shut down, we'd have to leave in 3 hours, or die". He was not exaggerating.

Meanwhile, the Inuit have lived there for thousands of years, before we came along to show them "how it's done" .

Rgds, D.

 

[TnAndy]

Given the chance to build new in many locations, I think a person's home should be their first alt nrg project. With correct building designs, it is easy to reduce home energy needs to a bare minimum; the need for geothermal or other expensive systems, all with failure points, is eliminated.

I agree. In 1985, I built my own home, and used a double 2x4 wall (interior studs 16"OC, exterior 24"OC) with a one inch space between the two. They join only at the top with a 3/4" x 9" plate. Then put 1" of foam board over the whole outside. I did it for two reasons: insulation, of course, and because I used rough cut sawmill lumber, (had LOTS of it) which varies in dimensions. By doubling the wall, I could set the odd sizes to the inside of the wall, and keep a flat plane on the inside and outside of the wall.

Did the same thing with the cathedral ceiling part of the house. Used rough cut 2x6 for rafters....set the 'uneveness' to the inside, keep a nice flat plane on the roof side. Then cut a bunch of 2x4 blocks 14" long, and nailed to a 2x4 turn on flat. Nailed that to the side of the 2x6 butted to the plywood roof sheathing. Nailed a plywood plate to the other side. Sort of a truss deal. ( See photo below ). Gave me a nice flat plane on the inside ceiling to sheet rock, also 3 1/2" wide ( like a floor truss ), AND gave me room to installed 12" of fiberglass batt, and still leave a 2" air space for soffit air to travel up to a ridge vent !

TODAY, I'd cut back on the lumber a lot, and use spray foam extensively......that stuff is great....but it just wasn't around much in the 80's.