Anyone else hate the new light bulbs?

[California]

Meanwhile, solar and other non-petro energy sources are coming online. Solar in particular is dropping in cost year by year making it more profitable to invest in. And meanwhile improvements in efficiency like we have been discussing here can also reduce demand. This will lead to big changes - less demand for the traditional petro and coal energy providers, and perhaps pushback by the ones that don't convert themselves. Over on the public utilities side, customers producing their own solar buy less energy but want improved distribution systems so they can sell energy to the utility. I saw an interesting comment recently - an energy analyst from Hawaii spoke at a conference and opened with the line "I've come from the future to speak to you today". Hawaii has so much solar that the utilities are having to respond to falling energy demand, increased demand to improve transmission lines, and of course a continuing responsibility to make a profit for utility stockholders. All in a regulatory environment that never contemplated customers selling energy to the utility, and lacking a model for fairly distributing infrastructure cost.

Let's not go all political and get us all banned but I think just describing the challenges facing the energy sector of the economy - in a neutral way - should keep us out of trouble.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I know of one aluminum plant that shut down last year due to the economy. It has created a whole power plant of extra capacity.

 

[SPIKER]

Larry may have read the same story I did...

"In response to tepid demand, electricity production in the U.S. fell in 2008 and 2009, amid the recession, then ticked up slightly in 2010 before falling again in 2011."



Electricity Use on Wane in the U.S. - WSJ.com

It started ticking down even prior to the 2008 depression as people switched from older energy sucking devices to more efficient ones. This was helped along by the Energy Rebates of 2009/10 which put a LOT of new devices into consumers hands/homes.
Factories moved south of the border and to Asia by hundreds per year from 2000 or so up after NAFTA passed. In the recession the Factory moving trend ended as Asia and Mexico wages came up (quality went down) and so many in US were unemployed no one was buying.

By 2011 the switching to more energy efficiency continued (including CFLs etc) but the bigger one was old PCs were shut off in favor for LCD TVs, Lap Tops and Smart Phones which all use a great deal less power. Then we have the decrease in labor hours for 2011 on as less workers put in full time and more part time.

Anyhow lots of problems with pin pointing but the facts above points to a great deal of lower consumption. The entire process has led to lower energy demand from electricity generators ever after EPA is forcing many Coal Fired plants to close we have an excess of power under normal conditions. These COLD temps have forced some rolling blackouts just as if it was HOT...

Mark

 

[California]

sure wish I could get the $4.97 CREE Home Depot price in Washington DC here in California where the best is at least double that.

Good news!

On your way to Tahoe, the Home Depots in SMUD's service area have special pricing. Today I paid $7.97 (+tax) for that same Cree bulb that was recently $12.97. It is 60 watt equivalent / 9.5 watt, Warm White, 800 lumen. Quality and electrical efficiency are top tier. I installed this Cree 9.5w bulb in place of an 18 watt CFL. The Cree is brighter.

 

[sixdogs]

Good news!

On your way to Tahoe, the Home Depots in SMUD's service area have special pricing. Today I paid $7.97 (+tax) for that same Cree bulb that was recently $12.97. It is 60 watt equivalent / 9.5 watt, Warm White, 800 lumen. Quality and electrical efficiency are top tier. I installed this Cree 9.5w bulb in place of an 18 watt CFL. The Cree is brighter.

I still don't get it---if that bulb is as bright as a 60 watt incandescent, how can you see anything? Even 100 watt is dim.

 

[MikeInEburg]

I still don't get it---if that bulb is as bright as a 60 watt incandescent, how can you see anything? Even 100 watt is dim.

That's my beef too! Very few 100+ watt equivalent bulbs out there.

 

[California]

All true. They still don't sell a general-application bulb.

I use the Crees in the downstairs hall and the upstairs stairway/hall. These run 24/7 when we are away, to make the house look occupied, so that is where they are most useful. 60 watts (equivalent) of light is just right for walking through these pass-through locations when we are home.

Outside porch lights are a similar application.

An occupied room needs more light, a 100 w equivalent CFL or better, minimum, and won't run as many hours per year.

 

[grsthegreat]

its simple, you onlt need to add 4 LED lights to replace the existing 100 watt incandescent. ohoh, that means youll still need 100 watts of power.

thats the rub. I saw 4 packs of 60 watt equiv at Home depot for $19.95, but the're all some Chinese knockoff brand. dont think so. I bought a 72 pack of 60 watt incandescent lamps from my supply house for $19.75 cash. ... thats $ 0.27 each, and that should last me for some time. I also have a case of 100 watt incandescent i bought last year. Have lots of 65 watt incandescent in my normal stockpile, as i use these lights on a weekly basis.

Funny thing is they also banned the 40 watt incad light this year. who the heck uses 40 watt light. there a useless lamp.

The building codes here in Idaho now REQUIRE 50% of all new house lighting to be either LED or spiral florescent. There forcing it on everyone. The dimmable florescent arnt worth the dynamite to blow them up. The dimmable LEDS are so expensive they generally cost 4x what the light fixture costs. Try explaining that to a client. Also most (not all) dimmable leds and florescent wont work on standard dimmers. You need the new brand of dimmers that take 1-2 seconds to operate. So now when you flip a switch, the lights dont even turn on for up to 2 seconds.

They end up flipping on a series of switches in an effort to try and find the right one. this drives the clients absolutely nuts. Ah, the modern convenience of a light switch has now gone away.

 

[Scooby074]

I think some of you guys who say a 100W is too dim need to see an optometrist or something!

There isnt a 100W bulb in my house, all the lights are 60W and 40W equivalents. Even the halogen spotlights at the chicken coop are only 90W and we can see just fine. I dont understand the need for enough light to play a nightime ballgame in the living room

 

[grsthegreat]

I think some of you guys who say a 100W is too dim need to see an optometrist or something!

There isnt a 100W bulb in my house, all the lights are 60W and 40W equivalents. Even the halogen spotlights at the chicken coop are only 90W and we can see just fine. I dont understand the need for enough light to play a nightime ballgame in the living room

i have 12 foot ceilings in my living room. Just try and get a few 60 watt lamps to light up your reading materials. Now, if the fixture uses multiple lamps, than 60 watts are ok. Some of mine use only 1 lamp.

 

[MikeInEburg]

I think some of you guys who say a 100W is too dim need to see an optometrist or something!

There isn't a 100W bulb in my house, all the lights are 60W and 40W equivalents. Even the halogen spotlights at the chicken coop are only 90W and we can see just fine. I don't understand the need for enough light to play a nigh time ballgame in the living room

The problem is that many lighting systems or layouts were designed with 100 watt bulbs in mind. Adding additional fixtures isn't always as simple as it may seem...

 

[srs]

Scooby074, I like to read by a lamp of about 150 watts but finding such a bulb is getting harder to find. Less strain on the eyes. FYI I see the eye doctor yearly for a complete eye exam. I do use reading glasses but overall my eyes are in great shape, thank God.

And if someone wants to play a night time ballgame in their living room shouldn't he/she have that right? I know (hope) you were just kidding here. Take care, Stanley

 

[Scooby074]

i have 12 foot ceilings in my living room. Just try and get a few 60 watt lamps to light up your reading materials. Now, if the fixture uses multiple lamps, than 60 watts are ok. Some of mine use only 1 lamp.

12' ceilings are a bit of an exception. Growing up, we had a large A frame, 25' ceilings or so in the LR. 2-100W at the ceiling, but thats why there is such a thing as task lighting for reading etc.

 

[Scooby074]

Scooby074, I like to read by a lamp of about 150 watts but finding such a bulb is getting harder to find. Less strain on the eyes. FYI I see the eye doctor yearly for a complete eye exam. I do use reading glasses but overall my eyes are in great shape, thank God.

And if someone wants to play a night time ballgame in their living room shouldn't he/she have that right? I know (hope) you were just kidding here. Take care, Stanley

150W in a lamp... Ive long since ditched all my Halogen desklamps and torchieres. Too much wasted electricity, heat and fire hazards

Yes, I suppose you do have the right to play ball in the LR. That wasnt my point. Its the wasted lumens. Most people I know, including myself, are doing what we can to cut down on wasted light and the associated costs.

 

[California]

its simple, you onlt need to add 4 LED lights to replace the existing 100 watt incandescent. ohoh, that means youll still need 100 watts of power.

Huh???

100 watts of power applied to Cree 9.5 watt bulbs will make 600 watts of light. That should be enough to read by.

 

[Redneck in training]

its simple, you onlt need to add 4 LED lights to replace the existing 100 watt incandescent. ohoh, that means youll still need 100 watts of power.

thats the rub. I saw 4 packs of 60 watt equiv at Home depot for $19.95, but the're all some Chinese knockoff brand. dont think so. I bought a 72 pack of 60 watt incandescent lamps from my supply house for $19.75 cash. ... thats $ 0.27 each, and that should last me for some time. I also have a case of 100 watt incandescent i bought last year. Have lots of 65 watt incandescent in my normal stockpile, as i use these lights on a weekly basis.

Funny thing is they also banned the 40 watt incad light this year. who the heck uses 40 watt light. there a useless lamp.

The building codes here in Idaho now REQUIRE 50% of all new house lighting to be either LED or spiral florescent. There forcing it on everyone. The dimmable florescent arnt worth the dynamite to blow them up. The dimmable LEDS are so expensive they generally cost 4x what the light fixture costs. Try explaining that to a client. Also most (not all) dimmable leds and florescent wont work on standard dimmers. You need the new brand of dimmers that take 1-2 seconds to operate. So now when you flip a switch, the lights dont even turn on for up to 2 seconds.

They end up flipping on a series of switches in an effort to try and find the right one. this drives the clients absolutely nuts. Ah, the modern convenience of a light switch has now gone away.

We are early adopters. We bought LED for all lights that were ON for more than 8 hours a day when they were over $50 three years ago. All are dimmable using standard dimmers we bought more than 10 years ago. No start delay at all. About a year ago we bought several cheap LEDs for guest batroom. They have fraction second delay when turned on.

 

[ultrarunner]

Went through Mom's home and replaced the kitchen light with a T8 fixture and other lamps with Cree 60W. equivilent 800 lumens.

Her bathroom fixtures had 4 75w bulbs in each and now each has two 9.5w Cree. She is 80 and says the light has never been this good.

In the hallways I put the 40w Cree and also a corner lamp in the living room she like to keep on.

The only bulb I did not change is the 150w reading lamp over the dining room table where she does her reading...

So no 100w bulbs anywhere in her 4 bedroom home.

When I was a child... each bedroom had 3 100w bulbs and the bathrooms had 4 100w bulbs... dad only bought 100w bulbs in bulk...

Could be why we never turned on the heater my entire childhood unless we had company over the holidays???

 

[woodlandfarms]

Back on the soapbox. Its not watts, its lumens. Its a hard, hard thing to shake, but the issue is lumens, not watts for the conversation about brightness.

Second, almost as important, its about design. Inside your LED house styled bulb is more than likely what they call a corncob light. It looks like a cylinder with a bunch of LED's soldered to it. There is also a flat dish design and a "fireworks" design. The flat dish is a very popular design but it limits the light to 180 degrees.

LED lights are very directional. It is one of the many reasons you get more lumens per watt than with a filament. Also, LED bulbs generally run at 5 volts DC. Most commone LED's run under 1 watt per bulb, but you see 3 watts in industrial and off road lights and 5 watt led's starting to surface.

What I am getting at is what is happening now and what is the future. Bulb designers are struggling to make an LED light bulb that puts out the same lumens with an incandescent in the large size because they can't keep the electronics cool and quiet without making the bulb too large to fit in current lamp designs.

Second, designers are struggling to make bulbs that look good in current lamps. Your incandescent bulb puts out 300 degrees of light. This is really hard to do with all the electronics and the directional nature of LED.

I think what you will see, and I hope someone in the government stays on top of this, is that new light fixtures will be designed just for LED. Not how the bulb connects with the lamp, but how the light comes from the lamp. My big concern is that it is beginning to look like there are going to be a TON of various types of LED bulbs, distinct to each lamp unit. If that happens, prices will remain very high for LED bulbs as mass manufacturing will not occur.

 

[Sodo]

I saw an interesting comment recently - an energy analyst from Hawaii spoke at a conference and opened with the line "I've come from the future to speak to you today". Hawaii has so much solar that the utilities are having to respond to falling energy demand, increased demand to improve transmission lines, and of course a continuing responsibility to make a profit for utility stockholders.

More than 90% of Hawaii's power is from buying fossil fuels (coal and oil) and burning it. It's an incredible amount of fossil fuel energy shipped there (and sold) to be burned. A GREAT market for energy sellers who are reacting like any industry, slowing government adoption of energy savings and opposing programs that assist people to gathering their own electricity.

Hawaii has abundant solar power, wind power, geothermal power, all of which could free the people from purchasing fossil fuels, if their goverment could shake off the energy industry controls. But theres that money-politics connection.

Try and imagine Alaska being forced to buy coal and the Alaskan goverment being part of the problem. Thats like Hawaii buying fossil fuel.

Anyway with electricity costing 32cents per kilowatt hour, LED bulbs pay for themselves in Hawaii about 3x as fast as the US average. And MUCH faster if the LED bulb is in an air-conditioned home or office. Hawaii is one place where only a dimbulb would "hate the new lightbulbs".

Here in WA (or other cold areas that have hydro power) cost/benefit is still a wash, I think but I am getting tired of going up a ladder for incandescents….

 

[grsthegreat]

More than 90% of Hawaii's power is from buying fossil fuels (coal and oil) and burning it. It's an incredible amount of fossil fuel energy shipped there (and sold) to be burned. A GREAT market for energy sellers who are reacting like any industry, slowing government adoption of energy savings and opposing programs that assist people to gathering their own electricity.

Hawaii has abundant solar power, wind power, geothermal power, all of which could free the people from purchasing fossil fuels, if their goverment could shake off the energy industry controls. But theres that money-politics connection.

Try and imagine Alaska being forced to buy coal and the Alaskan goverment being part of the problem. Thats like Hawaii buying fossil fuel.

Anyway with electricity costing 32cents per kilowatt hour, LED bulbs pay for themselves in Hawaii about 3x as fast as the US average. And MUCH faster if the LED bulb is in an air-conditioned home or office. Hawaii is one place where only a dimbulb would "hate the new lightbulbs".

Here in WA (or other cold areas that have hydro power) cost/benefit is still a wash, I think but I am getting tired of going up a ladder for incandescents….

at .32/KWH i can see it. but i pay 0.06/KWH.... so i hate them:laughing: