Another tire loading question...

[4310]

Hey folks,

I'm debating on whether or not to get the rear tires of my newly aquired 4310 filled or not. I've read several threads on the subject here and I'm still too dense to understand the dynamics.

If I have filled tires is it possible to let some pressure out when I mow? Are filled tires "bumpier" than non filled even at low pressure? (assuming a filled tire can have low pressure) Can I half fill the tires and have the best of both worlds?

I will be using the tractor predominately for mowing five flat acres (with a few ditches) but I will bring it out of the garage a few times during the winter for moving snow out of the driveway. I will occasionally move dirt or gravel with the loader also but that won't be too often.

Thanks

 

[jenkinsph]

If you have a fel you need rear ballast or a heavy rear implement for safety's sake. You don't need extra weight or ballast for mowing. For snow work chains would be a better choice. If it were me with one tractor I would lean towards keeping the tractor light for mowing which is much better for the grass. Put snow chains on when you stop mowing in the fall. Use a heavy 3ph implement for ballast when you need to mount the fel and keep the bucket low as possible.

 

[glc24]

If you have a fel you need rear ballast or a heavy rear implement for safety's sake. You don't need extra weight or ballast for mowing. For snow work chains would be a better choice. If it were me with one tractor I would lean towards keeping the tractor light for mowing which is much better for the grass. Put snow chains on when you stop mowing in the fall. Use a heavy 3ph implement for ballast when you need to mount the fel and keep the bucket low as possible.

+1 :thumbsup:

....and from what I've read from owners with filled tires,majority say its a smoother ride with normal air pressure.


Greg

 

[compact]

I had mine un-filled as:

1.) If it's calcium (mine was) it WILL eventually eat the rims, esp. near the valve stems. Calcium will degrade the valve core, if you check pressure the stem will tend to leak unless it gets pulled, washed, sometimes replaced. If it leaks it will rust the rim. Kind of a PIA.
2.) Easier to fix a flat
3.) More weight to tow (a factor for me)
4.) I do think it rides better.
5.) I don't do a lot of heavy draft or loader work (I do use the loader a lot but it's not on manure pile duty etc.)

If It wasn't for the towing part, something like rim guard would probably be in the rears as my machine definitely needs something with the FEL empty, with a load in the bucket you need all you can get. I have a 900 lb ballast on a quick hitch, which is adequate.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I don't think anyone can honestyl tell the difference in ride quality from filled versus non filled tires if the tire pressure is the same. Much of the time it is just psychosomatic in thinking that there is a difference because they know it has fluid in the tires so it must be rougher. I would defy anyone to pass a test telling which tractor had filled with 75/25% water/air mixture in tires vs 100 % air. The 25% air above the water will compress just like the 100% air will which is why you need the air chamber above. Rougher ride is totally dependent on air pressure, lower pressure= smoother ride regardless of filler or unfilled.
If worried about rutting from heavier tire, just calculate the PSI ground force on you tire using an approximate cross section of contact area using the tractors weight dry and then wet. You will find only a negligible increase in actual pressure to the ground which in most instances is no more than an average person walking across the ground. If the soil is damp, you will of course get some tire prints. Wider tires= better flotation which is one reason why turf tires and industrial R4 tires are better on lawns than AG R1 tires and they also have more rubber contact from the same sized tire.
Even the occasional use of a loader without proper ballast is enough to cause a tip up. Loaded tires is only halve the issue as you still need some weight behind the axles to lessen the load on the front tires.

All the above being said, A ballast box of the proper size to counter weight the tractor would be your best solution since you determined that only occasionally would you use the FEL. A 55 gallon drum filled with steel and concrete can usually give you as much counterweight as you need for a CUT (up to about 1100#) and is compact so it doesn't stick out to far in the rear, can be removed when not needed and is much cheaper than ballast boxes from the dealer. If the FEL is QA, I would remove that also when not needed to give more maneuverability in tight spots and less weight on your lawn.

 

[greg_g]

If your five acres are as flat as you state - and you're only mowing and moving material - a removable rear ballast would be the way to go. Filling tires puts weight ON the axles. It's a traction thing, plus helps on sidehill stability. Putting ballast BEHIND the axle is counters weight and stress occuring on the front of the tractor. I'd talk to the dealer about their three point ballast box, as you can vary the amount of weight it holds to match your front load. And you have the advantage of being able to move/tailor it for use on both tractors.

//greg//

 

[Zebrafive]

The best reason to fill tires is for better traction. If you are not using it were traction is a problem (other than snow, then use chains) don't fill the tires.
Filling does add some ballast for loader work, but doesn't take any weight off the front axle like rear (behind the axle) ballast does.

 

[LD1]

I agree with others here. If flat and mostly mowing, leave them empty. Get sufficient weight out back for loader work. A heavy blade or box blade, or a ballast box.

Keep it light for mowing.

 

[4310]

Thanks for the replies.

Right now I am leaning towards keeping the tires liquid free so I can lower the air pressure as needed and finding some sort of ballast to put on the 3PH for my very infrequent loader work. I'll probably just use my rear mower. I don't foresee me using it for much more than moving a truckload of dirt or gravel once or twice a year and I doubt if I try to break any records when I'm doing that.

There is a place near here that fills tires with rim guard and they recommend using inner tubes. Is it possible to let out some pressure if your tubes are filled? I can't see how that works unless you just drain out fluid and fill back up with air but then you would be right back where you started wouldn't you? Is it all or nothing if you fill the tubes? I can understand having air at the top of a tubeless tire to play with but I can't wrap my mind around how it works with inner tubes.

Like I said, I'm about as sharp as a round rock when it comes to this.

I forget who asked but I do have R4 tires on this tractor. I had ag tires (air filled) on the 850 that I just got rid of and it didn't do any damage to the yard to speak of.

 

[jenkinsph]

The tire pressure would be about the same whether you have them filled or not. Just a guess but somewhere around 12 psi either way. Most people who fill the tires do this with the tires standing up and rotate the tire until the valve stem is slightly before top dead center. This allows you to roll the tires into position with the valve stem in the highest position and add/remove air as needed without loosing the fluid.

 

[4310]

How does that work with tubes though? Can you adjust air pressure with them?

 

[LD1]

How does that work with tubes though? Can you adjust air pressure with them?

Yes. Same way

 

[greg_g]

Yeah, filling tires does nothing for the actual tire pressure. Once filled, you must then top up with compressed air to the desired PSI.

//greg//

 

[GolfAddict]

Just to be sure you understand, when you "fill" tires with liquid ballast, you don't actually fill completely. That is, traditionally they are filled about 75%, though many others say they only fill 50%. There is air space, so if you rotate tire so valve stem is at the top where the air is, you can remove some air if you want. Or add some, of course...

 

[Zebrafive]

If you have any trouble with the tires spinning, filling really helps.
MY guess the reason tubes are recommended for Rim Guard is it may be slippery enough to cause the tire to slip on the rim at low inflation.

 

[greg_g]

Maybe I missed something. Who recommends tubes for RimGuard? It's Calcium Chloride that should be tubed !!

//greg//

 

[sunnyside360]

I have three tractors right now and all are filled ~70% with Rimguard without tubes. I've also had a few tractors previously with Rimguard and they did not have tubes. That's just the way it's done around here and I've never had a problem. Also, if you should get a puncture from a thorn or nail which I've had you can fix it very easily with a plug without removing the wheel from the tractor -- big plus considering how heavy loaded tires can be.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Per rimguard slip issues:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/241019-bx-wont-pull-hill-problem.html

 

[greg_g]

One guy who neglected to air up his tires after installing RimGuard does not make an issue. You put the valve stem at the 12 o'clock position, fill the tire till it won't take any more. This puts you in the neighborhood of a 70% fill. Replace the valve stem, and add air to the manufacturer recommended pressure. No slippage.

//greg//

 

[4310]

The local rim guard installer was who recommend the tubes for filled tires, be it rim guard or calcium. I didn't question the issue and he seemed to imply that any filled tires should have tubes installed.