Float for curl function

[LD1]

I would still be worried about damaging something.

If you catch something with the plow, and there is no resistance in the curl cylinders, I see it pushing the loader or front of the tractor up in the air, kinda like you driving up over your plow...

I also have my doubts as to its effectiveness. IT seems that when you are plowing and it does "better" when you take it out of float and bump it up a tad, that you have way more than just the weight of the loader arms on the front axle. You are actually lifting a little weight off the plow. And if you make curl float, the only weight you are keeping is the loader arms, which I think would be minimal. But I could be wrong.

And its hard to tell in the picture, but is the a-frame welded to the QA plate?? or is it bolted on with those 4 bolts??

If it is bolted, It dont look like it would be that hard to make it pin on with just one larger bolt (or pin) and make it pivot there, and then use a chain. (like a truck mounted plow)

 

[Xfaxman]

I would still be worried about damaging something.

If you catch something with the plow, and there is no resistance in the curl cylinders, I see it pushing the loader or front of the tractor up in the air, kinda like you driving up over your plow...

I also have my doubts as to its effectiveness. IT seems that when you are plowing and it does "better" when you take it out of float and bump it up a tad, that you have way more than just the weight of the loader arms on the front axle. You are actually lifting a little weight off the plow. And if you make curl float, the only weight you are keeping is the loader arms, which I think would be minimal. But I could be wrong.

And its hard to tell in the picture, but is the a-frame welded to the QA plate?? or is it bolted on with those 4 bolts??

If it is bolted, It dont look like it would be that hard to make it pin on with just one larger bolt (or pin) and make it pivot there, and then use a chain. (like a truck mounted plow)

I thought of that also, but Roger said he didn't want to modify it, would sell it and get a truck mount instead.

Cut a slot where the front bolts are and put a big pivot pin at the back, like this.

 

[94BULLITT]

thanks for the replies. At this time I am not sure what I am going to do.

 

[Arc weld]

I've been kind of following along and one thing that has always been clearly pointed on any machine that comes with float position is that you don't use float while going forward. Whether it's on a loader or a dozer, float is used is used in reverse for back blading. Going forward there is nothing to stop the bucket or blade from turning under itself if it catches on something. That would sure dig up gravel. I think some wide adjustable gauge wheels would be a better option. The other problem is the cylinders could slam against the end and break or bend the rods. A lot of times on gravel it's best to let a layer of snow get packed down first before you start clearing it.

 

[npalen]

Another option that might be considered is the use of an accumulator in series with the FEL lift cylinders to provide a float function. Grain harvesting combines, for example, use an accumulator in the lift system for the header to allow it to float over rough terrain. The header can still be raised and lowered as usual but the accumulator provides a cushion and keeps some weight on the drive wheels of the combine. Here's some examples of accumulator uses: hydraulic accumulator - Google Search

 

[npalen]

Here's some info related to accumulators on front end loaders. I didn't realize until doing a little research that accumulators are fairly common on FEL's.
Loader suspension system (LSS)
Front end loaders - ZETOR NORTH AMERICA (See "optional pressure accumulator near bottom of page)
LS implements Front Loader overview | LS Tractor Official Site See "accumulator" under "features"
JCB SRS - YouTube Video showing "ride control accumulator" on an FEL.

 

[94BULLITT]

I've been kind of following along and one thing that has always been clearly pointed on any machine that comes with float position is that you don't use float while going forward. Whether it's on a loader or a dozer, float is used is used in reverse for back blading. Going forward there is nothing to stop the bucket or blade from turning under itself if it catches on something. That would sure dig up gravel. I think some wide adjustable gauge wheels would be a better option. The other problem is the cylinders could slam against the end and break or bend the rods. A lot of times on gravel it's best to let a layer of snow get packed down first before you start clearing it.

The blade has a spring trip on it. I have thought about guage wheels but the tractor would perform best with the weight of the loader on the tractor and not the blade.

Another option that might be considered is the use of an accumulator in series with the FEL lift cylinders to provide a float function. Grain harvesting combines, for example, use an accumulator in the lift system for the header to allow it to float over rough terrain. The header can still be raised and lowered as usual but the accumulator provides a cushion and keeps some weight on the drive wheels of the combine. Here's some examples of accumulator uses: hydraulic accumulator - Google Search

Thanks, I'll read up on accumulators. Right now I am think the best thing may be to find it a new home. Then i would get a truck plow and do a similar setup like this one.

 

[LD1]

If I ever did a loader plow, thats how it would be.:thumbsup:

But who am I kidding, I have a truck plow that pushes almost 10' (with the wings), and the comfort of heat and radio:thumbsup:

I do occasionally plow it with the tractor, if I am too lazy to hook up the truck, but a 7' rear blade and FEL make quick work as is.

 

[94BULLITT]

I don't know why there are not many commercially available plows setup like that. I asked around and looked on here before I got this blade. Every seems to like this style of mine. Then I get it and it digs up the gravel and everyone is like I have that problem tooullinghair:

 

[bandaidmd]

kind of off topic but here goes,
Are loader mounted plows really supposed to be used?
i was under the impression that lateral loads were a no no for a FEL. opinions?

 

[LD1]

kind of off topic but here goes,
Are loader mounted plows really supposed to be used?
i was under the impression that lateral loads were a no no for a FEL. opinions?

Nothing wrong at all. Just some over paranoid people say it is bad. But how many times does a front end loader experience an unbalanced load. Like digging and catching a root on just one corner? Or filling just one corner of the bucket from a pile?

There are a ton of loader mounted plows out there, and very few failures related to them.

 

[skyhook]

I thought of that also, but Roger said he didn't want to modify it, would sell it and get a truck mount instead.

Cut a slot where the front bolts are and put a big pivot pin at the back, like this.
View attachment 333082

I can understand your dilemma.
The design of that blade doesn't allow for it to raise or float unless the loader it's hooked up to
does the floating. In this case, there's too much weight on the blade, catching too much gravel.
On my Kubota, I have a similar blade, "no loader", and it has a "lift" cylinder also for it.
It does have the float option and only carries the weight of the blade itself,
something your trying to achieve.
Your only option, IMO, is to modify it,
or sell it and purchase one that does "float".
On another Kubota I had, it did have a loader, I modified "plate's" in the bucket so
my "power angle plow with float" would slide into it, as seen in your video,
worked great, as the loader would be about a foot above ground and the blade
would "float" the ground surface.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.:thumbsup:

 

[94BULLITT]

I can understand your dilemma.
The design of that blade doesn't allow for it to raise or float unless the loader it's hooked up to
does the floating. In this case, there's too much weight on the blade, catching too much gravel.
On my Kubota, I have a similar blade, "no loader", and it has a "lift" cylinder also for it.
It does have the float option and only carries the weight of the blade itself,
something your trying to achieve.
Your only option, IMO, is to modify it,
or sell it and purchase one that does "float".
On another Kubota I had, it did have a loader, I modified "plate's" in the bucket so
my "power angle plow with float" would slide into it, as seen in your video,
worked great, as the loader would be about a foot above ground and the blade
would "float" the ground surface.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.:thumbsup:

You definitely understand the problem. I am going to rearrange the hoses again on the loader and see what that does. I think the best thing would be for me to get rid of the blade and make my own from a truck plow.

 

[94BULLITT]

Well I finally tried rearranging the hose again today. I flipped the hoses left to right and it was the same deal, joystick left and the loader would raise, joystick right it would raise, regen it would lower. I got a little smarter and and swapped the loader lift hoses around and it worked.

I still want to sell this blade but if I still have it and we get snow do you guys see any problems with using it like this?

I remember ARC weld said I could bed the cylinders if I hit something. I may need to come up with a way to limit the travel the curl cylinders have. A strap like xfaxman said may work.

 

[skyhook]

I think if you keep the loader arms at the right height, maybe about 8 inches or so,,
you should be ok. You do have the springs on the blade and the cylinders are in float, so they should retract also. getting the arms at the right height will be key, I think.
You don't want the blade to start 'digging" into the gravel.
Then again, you have your "shoes" to help prevent that.
Pray for snow and give it a try.

 

[94BULLITT]

I got the blade out and cleaned it up to take some pictures to try to sell but now IDK if I want to get rid of it:confused2: I found a truck plow that would be a good candidate for a FEL conversion but this plow is nicer/ more heavy duty.

The plow has a adjustment at the quick attach. I am thinking about moving it down to the bottom set of holes, drilling a hole where the orange circle is and remove the bolts so it will float. Since the pin would only be going through the QA and the plow frame I would need to add a bracket to make a clevis like hook up to keep the pin from having slop and wobbling around. I can add a chain to keep it from falling when I raise it.

 

[skyhook]

Yep, that just may work out.
You'd also have to keep an eye out for those cylinder's,
to ensure they don't hit that 'top' plate when the plow lifts.
I wonder if you could add a "lift" cylinder instead of a chain.
Have a separate control for, with float. Just a thought , if you wanted to go all out.

 

[Xfaxman]

From post #22

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Cut a slot where the front bolts are and put a big pivot pin at the back, like this.
View attachment 333082

I got the blade out and cleaned it up to take some pictures to try to sell but now IDK if I want to get rid of it:confused2: I found a truck plow that would be a good candidate for a FEL conversion but this plow is nicer/ more heavy duty.

The plow has a adjustment at the quick attach. I am thinking about moving it down to the bottom set of holes, drilling a hole where the orange circle is and remove the bolts so it will float. Since the pin would only be going through the QA and the plow frame I would need to add a bracket to make a clevis like hook up to keep the pin from having slop and wobbling around. I can add a chain to keep it from falling when I raise it.

I think the pivot pin needs to be back as far as possible, like this.

 

[94BULLITT]

Yep, that just may work out.
You'd also have to keep an eye out for those cylinder's,
to ensure they don't hit that 'top' plate when the plow lifts.
I wonder if you could add a "lift" cylinder instead of a chain.
Have a separate control for, with float. Just a thought , if you wanted to go all out.

That top plate is not part of the QA so it will move with the cylinders. I could add a cylinder but I would need a divertor to run it. I have a idea how I can quickly make it so I can have down pressure if I need it.

From post #22




I think the pivot pin needs to be back as far as possible, like this.
View attachment 343087

Why do you think the pivot needs to be farther back?

I was thinking with this method if it did not work out it would not be modified much to effect the resale value.

 

[Xfaxman]

------------------------------
Why do you think the pivot needs to be farther back?

I was thinking with this method if it did not work out it would not be modified much to effect the resale value.

I build things using the TLAR School of Engineering method. (That Looks About Right)

With a longer pivot arm, the vertical blade angle will change less as it floats up and down. But your shorter pivot point would still work okay. You could put it close to the bolt holes and be able to put the bolts back in with the pivot pin still in place.

I didn't think about resale value, because it will work so well you won't ever want to sell it!