Hack welder now an aspiring hack machinist

[rankrank1]

Picked up a "new to me" toy a few weeks ago.

Fray model # 10RH vertical and horizontal mill combo. Hopefully, it will be an oldie but goodie. Always wanted a mill and this one came along in my budget. Maybe someday I will have as many toys (oh I mean tools) as Shieldarc.

 

[hazmat ranger]

Jealous!!

 

[ruffdog]

X and Y movement on both the table and head, tilt the head, swing the head, plenty of Z movement, probably limited RPM range, interesting. Make sure your gibs are adjusted, get some tool and work holders and you should be ready.

 

[npalen]

That is a very interesting machine, I've never seen one quite like it.

 

[jwmorris]

Guess it makes a narrow table act like a wide one. Make adding a DRO more of a trick.

 

[CNC Dan]

go check out keith fenners videos on youtube. He uses an old KT mill and he knows how to do all sorts of things with that old machine.

 

[Ed of all trades]

When you get tired of it just let me know. looks like a great find.

 

[hawkeye08]

Trouble with most of the old stuff is that it takes 3 phase power... not a problem if you have it, but if you don't, then you have to buy or build single phase to three phase. A coworker years ago made a good size converter and had a shop full of 3 phase tools he got on the cheap.

 

[npalen]

An alternative to rotary phase converters are VFD's (Variable Frequency Drives) They convert single phase 220VAC to three phase 220 and let you vary the motor RPM and reversing electronically.
GS1 (120 / 230 VAC V/Hz Control) Overview
They are not difficult to install.

 

[rankrank1]

X and Y movement on both the table and head, tilt the head, swing the head, plenty of Z movement, probably limited RPM range, interesting. Make sure your gibs are adjusted, get some tool and work holders and you should be ready.

I also have the luxury of the totally separate 1 hp Horizontal motor arbor as well (the vertical motor is 1.5 hp). That said, I do lack the axle arbor and the wishbone bracket but it can still be used for some things with just a collet set only like the vertical. Maybe some day I will make the wishbone for the horizontal since there is a slim to none chance that I will ever find one).

Tool holders are in the wood box. NMTB 30 spindle taper to ER-32 style collets.

 

[rankrank1]

Trouble with most of the old stuff is that it takes 3 phase power... not a problem if you have it, but if you don't, then you have to buy or build single phase to three phase. A coworker years ago made a good size converter and had a shop full of 3 phase tools he got on the cheap.

It is 3 phase. Even a brand new mill of any size will likely be 3 phase too since 3 phase is ideal for instant reversing, runs smoother, and is more energy efficient for businesses. For the most part only the little glorified routers that they call mini mills mounted on a vertical column or the small mill/drill combos will be single phase.

Not a problem though on a mill or a lathe as there are many low cost options (as well as high cost options to run it). The phase converter that I will be using is a simple $40 static phase converter. These are the cheapest route to go and pretty much anvil proof, but you do lose 1/3 of your hp using this low cost option. For $150 to $200 or so I could upgrade to one of the VFD type converters like others have already mentioned that are pretty much 100% efficient plus offer a form of variable speed to boot. However, I am only a backyard hack so doubt that I ever will need to upgrade. Not likely to ever build or buy a $1000 rotary phase type converter or rewire the motor to single phase which are both options as well.

 

[rankrank1]

Guess it makes a narrow table act like a wide one. Make adding a DRO more of a trick.

Yes the dual movements do let the smaller table have as much travel as some much larger tables (I have not measured how much travel yet). I am hoping the dual movements do not sacrifice too much rigidity though.

You know I never even give thought to adding a DRO, but I think you are correct in that it would be difficult due to the dual travelers. For a backyard hobbyist like me I would not be adding a DRO to any machine I bought unless it was already on there when I purchased it.

Basically, any mill that I was willing to purchase had to be close to home, free loading ability where I purchased it, and pretty cheap as it is only a toy for me. That way even if I never use the mill then I am not out all that much money. I do like all the built in versaltility that this thing seems to offer though without me having to purchase additional specialized tooling like sine plates, etc. that might be needed on alternative mills.

 

[narampa]

I hope you realize what you have done..
You have started an incurable decease.
You are now doomed to a life of looking for more!!!

 

[ruffdog]

The type of machine that works best for a person depends what your doing with it. If your machining mini models, then smaller equipment works best. Big parts need big machines like a 45 foot tall Mitsubishi CNC boring bar with a 70 foot long table.

 

[LD1]

NMTB 30 spindle taper to ER-32 style collets.

Nice machine. I really like the ER style collets, but I am suprised that machine has a NMBT 30 taper. I would have tought it to be a R8:confused3:

You may find that even for a backyard hack, the VFD is going to be the way to go, for speed changes and what not. Given that looks like a step pulley machine with ony 3 speed options. The cost of the VFD would quickly be offset by tooling costs and no being able to fine tune the right speed.

These guys have some good lower cost VFD's The best way to buy industrial controls--low prices, fast shipping and superior service.

 

[LD1]

NMTB 30 spindle taper to ER-32 style collets.

Nice machine. I really like the ER style collets, but I am suprised that machine has a NMBT 30 taper. I would have tought it to be a R8:confused3:

You may find that even for a backyard hack, the VFD is going to be the way to go, for speed changes and what not. Given that looks like a step pulley machine with ony 3 speed options. The cost of the VFD would quickly be offset by tooling costs and no being able to fine tune the right speed.

These guys have some good lower cost VFD's The best way to buy industrial controls--low prices, fast shipping and superior service.

 

[troutsqueezer]

The Glorified Routers all use R8 collets. :thumbsup:

 

[LD1]

So do most bridgeport and similar knockoffs under 2HP. 3HP and up is where they normally change over to a NST 30 and 5hp jumps to NST40 taper.

 

[rankrank1]

The type of machine that works best for a person depends what your doing with it. If your machining mini models, then smaller equipment works best. Big parts need big machines like a 45 foot tall Mitsubishi CNC boring bar with a 70 foot long table.

Oh I agree to a point. Even those table top mini mills can be highly accurate (especially in the hands of a skilled operator), but they often lack the rigidity to handle steel and are sometimes better suited to lighter materials like plastics, aluminum, brass, etc.

A bigger machine can do smaller work, but a smaller machine can often not do bigger work. Just like a bigger tractor can usually do the work that a smaller tractor can do, but the little tractor can not necessarily do what the bigger one will do. 99% of the stuff I plan to use the mill on will be steel (and typically antique tractor parts in size). There may be times that even this machine is lacking in rigidity....only time will tell.

 

[rankrank1]

Nice machine. I really like the ER style collets, but I am suprised that machine has a NMBT 30 taper. I would have tought it to be a R8:confused3:

You may find that even for a backyard hack, the VFD is going to be the way to go, for speed changes and what not. Given that looks like a step pulley machine with ony 3 speed options. The cost of the VFD would quickly be offset by tooling costs and no being able to fine tune the right speed.

These guys have some good lower cost VFD's The best way to buy industrial controls--low prices, fast shipping and superior service.

Nice link on the VFD's. I already have the $40 static converter so it will be that to get started.

My machine was apparently offered with Brown and Sharp, Morse, or NMTB 30 taper as options. I am actually very glad that it has the NMTB 30 option.

Most of the real diehard machinists that I know consider Brown and Sharp taper to be like a Model T ford car, and R-8 taper to be about like a Model A Ford Car (its only advantage being cheap and common). Never hear anything about Morse taper much on a mill. But the diehard guys all say the NMTB 30, NMTB 40, and obviously NMTB 50 are all much more rigid, stable, modern, and desirable for ultimate rigidity/accuracy.

Doubt a hack like me could tell any difference amongst any of the styles for my needs so I will have to simply accept the self proclaimed expert's words on the subject as I am a machining newbie. I did personally pick the ER-32 collet size and design (after consulting with some experts) and style though as I think they will work excellent for my needs. Small enough to fit the smaller tooling without being overly cumbersome yet big enough to handle some bigger tooling too. For now all my tooling will be collet mount.

Here is some additional interesting reading about the Fray machine at Tony's site (pics and brochures included)

Page Title

P.S. If you read the info in the link, I also have the optional 1.5 hp motor on the vertial head which offers more speeds than the standard 1.0 hp motor. My horizontal motor is the standard 1.0 hp.