commercial driver's license requirements

[dhagood]

given that the gross vehicle weight rating (gvwr) and gross cargo weight rating (gcwr) for new pickup trucks is now greater than 30,000 pounds, there is a lot of concern about whether or not a commercial driver's license is required to legally own and operate these vehicles. i don't claim to be an expert and the following is worth exactly what you've paid for it. i do however hold a current class a cdl issued by colorado and i do have over 8 years experience driving class 8 trucks hauling all manner of freight from fuel to steel to food to machinery.

so. the federal government created the federal motor carrier safety administration (fmcsa) which is under the federal department of transportation. the mission of fmcsa is "to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries." one of the main things fmcsa does to fulfill its mission is develop standards to test and license cdl drivers. the regulations fmcsa has developed are available online.

per the federal government per 383.91 Commercial motor vehicle groups., the different classes of cdl are:

ｧ 383.91 Commercial motor vehicle groups.

(a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows:

(1) Combination vehicle (Group A)輸ny combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)輸ny single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.

i imagine most people have seen the magic number of 26,001 pounds before. this particular fmcsa regulation is where the 26,001 pound requirement comes from. if you have a combination vehicle that weighs more than 26001 pounds or has a gcwr of greater than 26,001 pounds and the trailer gvwr is greater than 10,000 pounds, then you would need a class a cdl if the vehicle in question is a commercial motor vehicle. note that only commercial motor vehicles are required to be operated by cdl drivers. if the vehicle in question is not a commercial motor vehicle, you don't need a cdl to drive one. so, what's a commercial motor vehicle?

once again per the federal government per 383.5 Definitions, the definition of a commercial motor vehicle is:

Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle

(1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or

(2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater; or

(3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or

(4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.

this section contains the phrase "used in commerce to transport passengers or property". if your vehicle, combination or otherwise, is used in commerce and meets the weight requirements, then the drive must have the proper class of cdl. if the vehicle is not used in commerce, then a cdl is not required to operate that vehicle. "used in commerce" means that money is being exchanged, ie, the operator is being paid for driving the vehicle.

this fmcsa section also has an informative graphic which i include for those that don't follow the links to the fmcsa site:

so let's use some real world examples. you have a large boat that you own and, using your one ton dually pickup truck, you haul said boat on its trailer across multiple states and take a boating vacation at lake of the ozarks. just for grins, you weight your pickup, trailer, and boat at a public scale and note the gross vehicle weight is 31,000 pounds. you do not need a cdl to legally operate this vehicle, because this vehicle is not a commercial motor vehicle.

if you have a boat delivery service, and you attach your 7000 pound pickup truck to a trailer with a gvwr of 20,000 pounds to haul the boat and trailer to a lake, you are required by the federal government to have a class a cdl to operate this commercial motor vehicle. this vehicle is being used in commerce, ie, you are being paid to operate this vehicle, and is above the weight ratings required for a class a cdl. please note that the states can't legally waive or ignore these requirements, and while the state police might not be actively enforcing the requirements, federal agents can and will ticket you if they catch you in violation.

and while the penalties for not having a cdl when you are required to have one are pretty steep, that's not the real issue. let's say you are driving a commercial motor vehicle without benefit of the appropriate cdl and are stopped at a stop light, minding your own business. some drunk passes out behind you, hits the back of your commercial motor vehicle, and kills himself. if it comes out that you were in a commercial motor vehicle and didn't have the appropriate license, you can be held at fault for the accident. and i'm not talking just about being sued back to the stone age, i'm talking about going to prison for vehicular homicide. not jail, prison. no, i'm not kidding, and yes, it does happen.

if you have any concerns that you might need a cdl for the vehicle you drive, call your local highway patrol or your state department of transportation and explain the your situation. most of the people i've dealt with over the years are usually pretty reasonable and work pretty hard at educating the public.

once again, i'm not an expert, and you use the information and analysis i've provided at your own risk. if you get stopped by the cops and try to weasel out from your transgressions by quoting some guy on the internet, the cops will laugh as they write the tickets.

 

[kevin37b]

Commerce . Is that the driver getting paid , the truck being for hire , or both .

 

[gemstarfarm]

I have not heard of any agency targeting a driver and his license. I have however heard of them ticketing for not having the proper weight class tags and registration. I had an F150 ...7500 gross. Regular auto tags. Traded it in for a 2500HD...10000+ gross. Kept the old tags saved $50.00. Virginia DMV said oh no you have to pay for the heavier weight.

 

[RickB]

I have not heard of any agency targeting a driver and his license. I have however heard of them ticketing for not having the proper weight class tags and registration. I had an F150 ...7500 gross. Regular auto tags. Traded it in for a 2500HD...10000+ gross. Kept the old tags saved $50.00. Virginia DMV said oh no you have to pay for the heavier weight.

Being ticketed for driving out of class is not at all unheard of "here".

 

[gemstarfarm]

Being ticketed for driving out of class is not at all unheard of "here".

Its all about revenue. On the NC coast they were stopping people towing boats for weekenders and weighing them writing tickets.

 

[RickB]

Being ticketed for driving out of class is not at all unheard of "here".

Its all about revenue. On the NC coast they were stopping people towing boats for weekenders and weighing them writing tickets.

Some of it is about actually being qualified to drive the vehicle you are sitting in.

 

[plowking]

The dot officer I heard at a seminar said there is a CDL A with pintle hook endorsement. That is for landscapers or others that don't drive a tractor trailer combination. This also stops drivers from getting CDL A license by taking test on a non fifth wheel combination. plowking

 

[gemstarfarm]

Some of it is about actually being qualified to drive the vehicle you are sitting in.

Agreed.

but....

you are qualified to drive your work rig what ever it may be, you go home get in your 1t p/u pull your tractor over to your neighbors to do some work, you get stopped and weighed and ticketed for driving 30,000 because you dont have a dot number on it . Thats about Revenue.

I think thats what the OP is wondering about.

 

[RickB]

Agreed.

but....

you are qualified to drive your work rig what ever it may be, you go home get in your 1t p/u pull your tractor over to your neighbors to do some work, you get stopped and weighed and ticketed for driving 30,000 because you dont have a dot number on it . Thats about Revenue.

I think thats what the OP is wondering about.

You quoted my comment about driving out of class, did you not? I responded to a comment about "targeting licenses" , not DOT numbers.

 

[sam5570]

man this dicusion can go on for ever. i have a cdl class a and i have had it for 13 years. and i can tell you that the rules are so twisted and confusing sence they created this [fmcsa] that nobody has a clear answer to any of the questions. here is the big problem alot of people run into. what might be legal in your state isn't legal in other state's witch make's no sence at all. if the federal goverment makes a it is suppose to apply to all states, but here is where the problem is the states will right amendents to the law [witch should not be allowed] and if you happen to get pulled over or go thru traffic check it really just depends on what kinda day that cop is having. the law's are so crupt and unclear that they can be interpeted in what ever way the cop wants to do it. just to add this in [virginia] now if you have a cdl licenses you have to keep a updated medical card[weather or not you are driving a truck that requires it] or the state will suspend yor licenses.

 

[crazyal]

The DMV will weigh any truck with a DOT tag or commercial lettering on the side if it's pulling a trailer. They get the guys heading to the race track with their trailers all the time. I'm not sure if they care about what the door says but if your registration is less than what you're towing you are getting a fine and depending on what mood they are in you could be leaving your trailer behind.

 

[gemstarfarm]

You quoted my comment about driving out of class, did you not? I responded to a comment about "targeting licenses" , not DOT numbers.

Yes I did quote not to argue or disagree just to help illustrate my opinion. CDL commercial drivers license (commerce)

I am thinking about commerce vs. non commerce and weight classes and ticketing.

Is a CDL required if not enterng into commerce?

Geez.

 

[Dr Dave]

Six years ago, when I was racing, in S.D. the DOT came to the track and told us if we received price money for racing, then we were in commerce. All diesels p.u. or trucks required IFTA stickers, log books and DOT numbers. And must stop a the scale 3 miles away.

If you had a semi tractor converted to a RV, pulled a double decker enclosed car trailer, you were exempt!

Many drivers went to the semi RVs to get around the bs.

Dave

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Dr Dave. I have even been told if you are doing a favor for a case of beer or win a ribbon at the county fair for your prized pig that is considered "for profit" and subject to regulation.


We have a few horses and have been stopped on more than one occasion and grilled about where we were going, what were hauling and our weights. To save the BS we got our cdl's and I'mstill not 100% sure we dont need DOT numbers although im strongly trying to avoid them.

 

[Harold_J]

Yes I did quote not to argue or disagree just to help illustrate my opinion. CDL commercial drivers license (commerce)

I am thinking about commerce vs. non commerce and weight classes and ticketing.

Is a CDL required if not enterng into commerce?

Geez.

You're both probably correct in the points you make, but the thing is throwing all this information around haphazardly is what helps cause all the confusion like sam5570 says. One guy says something about CDL then others start chiming in about DOT numbers. Then they start piling on about medical cards, logs, insuance, inspections, fuel tax, weigh stations, etc. and what one state regulates vs another. CDL and DOT registration really have nothing to do with one another other than they both relate to commercial vehicles.

DOT regs start at 10K weight, CDL generally starts at 26K. CDL is for all driving, DOT is only for insterstate commerce except in those states that require it for intraste as well. There are a lot of trucks that have DOT numbers but you don't need a CDL to drive them. The opposite is rarely true unless you are operating within one of the states that doesn't require DOT numbers. All I'm saying is that it's confusing, can vary by state, and you can't just lump all the regs together.

I'd like to see it clearly spelled out somewhere about what are the requirements and regs you have to meet when driving a vehicle needing a CDL versus what you have to do when you're just in your diesel pickup with DOT number on it.

 

[gemstarfarm]

Thanks Harold_J . It would be nice if every state followed a "National Standard" not that I would ever invite more regulation. I think it might cut down on some of the ticketing of weekend warriors. Thats kind of the people I am referring to NOT PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS. Professionals are required to know the rules and regulations weekend warriors probably should be aware of the regs. But many dont as in the case of the guys at the race tracks. My 2 cents and I am done! Haha.

 

[RickB]

All I said was it is not unheard of "here" for tickets to be issued for driving out of class. That's in NY, specifically in the Hudson Valley in case somebody missed the mapdot I use for an avatar. That really shouldn't be confusing unless somebody confuses my state for their own. I learned a long time ago not to engage in discussions about DOT regs because if the cops can't interpret them in a consistent manner even within one state, it is pointless for a bunch of people from different states to try to argue about what is and isn't correct, legal or applicable to a given situation.

 

[Case485Guy]

You're both probably correct in the points you make, but the thing is throwing all this information around haphazardly is what helps cause all the confusion like sam5570 says. One guy says something about CDL then others start chiming in about DOT numbers. Then they start piling on about medical cards, logs, insuance, inspections, fuel tax, weigh stations, etc. and what one state regulates vs another. CDL and DOT registration really have nothing to do with one another other than they both relate to commercial vehicles.

DOT regs start at 10K weight, CDL generally starts at 26K. CDL is for all driving, DOT is only for insterstate commerce except in those states that require it for intraste as well. There are a lot of trucks that have DOT numbers but you don't need a CDL to drive them. The opposite is rarely true unless you are operating within one of the states that doesn't require DOT numbers. All I'm saying is that it's confusing, can vary by state, and you can't just lump all the regs together.

I'd like to see it clearly spelled out somewhere about what are the requirements and regs you have to meet when driving a vehicle needing a CDL versus what you have to do when you're just in your diesel pickup with DOT number on it.

Its spelled out clearly in your home states requirements. The states are required to meet the FCR's required by USDOT. If you are in a diesel pickup that requires DOT#s on the door...pretty much explained I think.

 

[gemstarfarm]

Its spelled out clearly in your home states requirements. The states are required to meet the FCR's required by USDOT. If you are in a diesel pickup that requires DOT#s on the door...pretty much explained I think.

The states meet the standards of the code of federal regulations and then have some of their own standards. Thats where the interstate confusion comes from . Yes if you are driving a vehicle that falls under dot regulation you have to have a
cdl. Oops more than 2 cents.

 

[QRTRHRS]

The "FED" dangles a carrot in front of the states, ie; follow the regs for highway money. If you are legal in your home state and operating on federal highways, then the regs are more or less the same state to state.

The states are free to hold their residents to a higher standard. The states are also free to designate weight and length limits on state roads. When it comes to non commercial activity, states cannot impose on someone legal in their home state. Let's say you have a dually pulling a travel trailer registered in a state that does not require DOT numbers. You enter a state that requires DOT numbers for a dually registered over say 10k commercial or not. That state cannot hit on you for not having DOT numbers because you are not commercial.

The rules are murky but beyond doing a little online research, call your respective state's pertinent highway department. When I moved here to KY, that's what I did prior to plating my dually. I found the DOT rep to be quite knowlegable and very cordial to converse with. If your state has a farm bureau, check with them as well if your activities involve agrculture.

Though I am not currently driving for a living nor have I for the last five years, I am keeping my CDL for now though I did drop the hazmat. Keeping it does somewhat hold one to a higher standard, definately on the BAC. Anyway, I would look at my needs to see if I could work around it before I went for a CDL if only needed on a casual basis but still keep things legal.