Backhoe need help with Ford 713 backhoe!

bennevis · Apr 23, 2013

I recently purchased a Ford (ID plate says 7I3, I9-I53, serial # I696) it worked pretty well when I checked it out (except it would swing too far right) - but the hoe was priced right & it came with (some) pieces to hook it up to my tractor. I already have a sub-frame and loader on the tractor & my plan is to modify a bit to attach to my sub-frame. I have the operator's manual & the part's manual. I still can't figure out which size it is - 10', 12', or 14'.

I am ordering a service manual from New Holland. I have taken the hoe apart & and I am going through it piece by piece - a few items definitely don't match up with the parts book - especially one of the swing cylinders. I can't I.D. it & the other swing cylinder has a bent rod (I've read you can straighten them on a hydraulic press)?

I've read a LOT online about certain hose fittings being difficult to find, I want to do a good job getting the hoe running again, any advice would greatly be appreciated. I'm including some pictures - hope to get it back in good working order. Thanks for the help!

Here's the pictures of the swing cylinders. I believe the cylinder with the bent rod is correct. I can't I.D. the other cylinder.

City Farmer · Apr 25, 2013

It looks smaller than my 753 Ford BH (13'). Did you get all the mounting hardware with it? If you didn't, theres six important pieces that have to be used to mount it to the tractor. When I bought mine I had to make new tierods because the originals were to short and a part that the tierod goes thru to bolt it all together. If you don't have all the parts and need a few pictures of them I can post them up for you. If you do, good luck. I haven't dug anything with my BH yet because like you, I have a lot of maintaince to do before I can use it. Everyone that I've ever talked to had nothing but good things to say about these old ford BH's. They say there as tough as nails and just don't stop.

bennevis · Apr 25, 2013

City Farmer said:
It looks smaller than my 753 Ford BH (13'). Did you get all the mounting hardware with it? If you didn't, theres six important pieces that have to be used to mount it to the tractor. When I bought mine I had to make new tierods because the originals were to short and a part that the tierod goes thru to bolt it all together. If you don't have all the parts and need a few pictures of them I can post them up for you. If you do, good luck. I haven't dug anything with my BH yet because like you, I have a lot of maintaince to do before I can use it. Everyone that I've ever talked to had nothing but good things to say about these old ford BH's. They say there as tough as nails and just don't stop.

Unfortunately, the backhoe had been scabbed onto a MF 200 loader sub-frame. I believe some of the original pieces were used, but I know a lot of it has to be rebuilt.

The sub-frame I have now is home-made, so hopefully, I can make pieces similar to the originals. I will post the pictures of what is 'left' from the old MF 200. I don't think the seat is original, (just from looking at pictures) - but it seems to fine.

I would really appreciate if you posted some pictures! I'm working on it pretty steadily, but I'm about to get into the things I am really unsure about. Here's the parts that came with the backhoe to mount it to tractor. (There's two bottom hooks & two top. The tie rods are rigged & definitely need rebuilt. Could you show a couple pictures of the back side of main frame? I think mine is missing a piece or two.

City Farmer · Apr 26, 2013

Here's a picture of the BH before I took it off the tractor. If you zoom in you can see where the BH sits on the lugs, Its a REALLY tight fit. Those tie rods get pinned into the loader frame (1" pins I think), the arms get pinned into the BH and the tie rod goes thru the arms and gets all bolted down. There's a spacer that gets put on the tie rod opposite of the angle that's on the arm to keep them straight before it all gets bolted together. I bet all this is clear as mud right? I'll get more pictures tomorrow and it will all come together, its not that bad. The frame that holds the BH is extra Heavy duty.

City Farmer · Apr 26, 2013

After looking at your pictures again I see what he did, He cut off the back half of the loader frame. Now you have to either cut off the back half of your loader or fab a new frame using the saddle. The loader frame on my tractor uses (4) 3/4" bolts to the engine, its bolted to the transmission with bolts of different sizes and there are (4) 3/4" ubolts (2/side) on the axle. It looks like you have all the important parts to make this work.

City Farmer · Apr 26, 2013

Here's a few pictures of mine, Hope they help

City Farmer · Apr 26, 2013

Here's the rest. In pic. #5, I don't know what you would call it but the one on the right is turned 180 out of location. The one on the left is the way it should be. I made the one on the right out of 4140 because the OEM is pretty tough. I made the tie rods from Danley grade 8 (1") bolts.

bennevis · Apr 26, 2013

Hey, thanks a lot! Yes, that does help a lot! I'm 90% sure your backhoe is a heavier machine than mine (although it's plenty heavy) - it does look pretty similar form the back, except the cushion valve is in two separate parts on mine. I'm looking at your pictures & I think I can make mine work - my sub-frame is really similar to yours. I was thinking about adding additional support, since I have to do some fabricating anyway. So far, everything has checked out ok - I'm going to need to replace most of the hoses. I have heard some fitting are hard to find? Some of the hoses look to be as old as the hoe. Here's a few of some progress.

I just sat the frame up next to tractor, trying to figure out how best to mount it - it looks really close on yours, I need to check for clearance. I plan on working on the arms this weekend, Thanks for pictures!

bennevis · Apr 26, 2013

City Farmer said:
Here's the rest. In pic. #5, I don't know what you would call it but the one on the right is turned 180 out of location. The one on the left is the way it should be. I made the one on the right out of 4140 because the OEM is pretty tough. I made the tie rods from Danley grade 8 (1") bolts.

I definitely don't have the piece from pic#5. I do have some additional hardware, but I think the arms for mine are slightly different - not as beefy as yours. I need to look in the coffee can again & see what all is in there. Nice fab work, BTW!

City Farmer · Apr 27, 2013

Alright, Now were getting somewhere! Looking great! Your way ahead of me. I have a rental I'll be wrapping up in a few more weeks then I can spend some time on my BH. I replaced a few lines on my BH. At first they were hard to source but once you know what you want its pretty easy. It looks like the guy before you cut the floor out to access the valve? All the flare fittings on your BH are 37* jic. You just have to figure out what # and you'll be all set. This place has all the info on how measure all your fittings. By the time your done you'll walk in to a shop and make it sound like you "really" know what your talking about.
JIC 37° Hydraulic Tube Fittings > Discount Hydraulic Hose.com

bennevis · Apr 29, 2013

Thanks for the info. & kind words! I don't know how much older my hoe is than yours, but I have some male fittings that have o-rings on the ends of them. They look different than any I have ever seen. I haven't checked out the link yet, but they may be available there. (I have some pretty old hoses). Again, I could be wrong, but I think on the 713 - the back portion of the main frame is removable (it looks like it in the few pictures I have seen, but it very well may have been cut).

I can tell you for certain, after looking at your pictures - your main frame is MUCH heavier than mine. I plan on cutting off the scabbed on patches & really re-enforcing the frame inside & out. I can just tell yours is a considerable upgrade. (But, your tractor is heavier than mine as well). I built a sub-frame a year back, but I'm concerned about too much stress in just one spot on each axle. I'm figuring out a plan to spread the weight more evenly & add more support to the trumpets. I don't plan on taking the backhoe off that tractor, unless it needs repairs, so I'm going to really study a way to tie everything together as best as possible.

What model is your tractor & do you know about how much your hoe weighs? Your rear axle is a monster!

bennevis · Apr 29, 2013

Yep...it looks like they have the adapters...whew!!!

City Farmer · Apr 29, 2013

The BH weighs 2300lbs. The tractor is a Ford 4000 (4850lbs) somewhere between 1965 & 69, I haven't pinned the exact date down yet. I bought it for the loader to put on my 3000 but it runs so good I'm going to fix her up and just leave the BH on it. The BH came off a Ford 3000 (3700lbs). The BH frame gets (4) u-bolts under the trumpets and the front half of the frame gets (4) 3/4 bolts to the engine bell housing. Here's a picture of what the BH frame looks like. I tore the loader off on Saturday. I tore apart the BH combination valve yesterday, the cushioning valve was stuck in the valve body so I used some 600grit emery and polished everything up. Everything slides really nice now. The swing cylinders weren't working right, there was slack in the chain. Hopefully after cleaning/polishing it all up fixed the problem. If you tear yours apart make sure you pay attention to the in/out fittings. They have different sized holes going through them. They look like the same fitting from the top flare but there different.

bennevis · May 1, 2013

I was thinking it was a late 60's Industrial, yeah - definitely a bigger machine there (both tractor & backhoe). Mine is a 841D Powermaster - it runs really well, but the internal hydraulics were weak. I decided to do similar to you & make the loader/backhoe permanent. I'll have to take some pictures of the sub-frame. It needs some tweaking around the back axle, but it is rally solid everywhere else. I added braces & cradles under each section of the tractor for added support.
It's funny, I worked on cushioning valve this weekend too. (mine is separate flow control & cushioning valves - a little less complex than yours). I uncovered some major cracks covered up with a botched repair job & that has kept me busy every spare minute. All the transport hooks for the chains were broken, so I just used some cleats off an old grain truck - I think they will work pretty well. Keep me updated - it's fun to watch the progress! I'll add a few pictures too.

bennevis · May 5, 2013

I did get some work in on the sub-frame, it looks like it's gonna work out pretty well. The backhoe main frame needs some work, but I'm a ways from that.

bennevis · May 19, 2013

Both of the swing cylinders had bent rods... I am certain one is original, but I still don't know what the other one is from. The hydraulics man said they matched up with one another fine (except the trunions are different on the cylinders & that would need to be addressed to match the swing on the boom. He also showed me how to save the original fittings & reuse them! (That was a big relief & it isn't that hard to remove the fitting with a cut-off blade - I am using a dremel tool.

In my ford tractor manual, they recommend adding about 580 lbs to each wheel with the backhoe - I thought about filling tires with fluid, but I wondered if Weights are better & if I can find any.

I'm not using this tractor for three point or PTO, so I removed all of those components & cleaned them & put them in Rubbermaid containers. I made some cover plates for things I've removed. I was wondering if I could use the original sump as a reservoir? For that matter, could I use the sump & rear end both? I know the 8N tractors shared fluids - I don't know if that is a feasible idea. Can anyone advise me on this? here's a few new pictures (I'm using electrolysis on a number of pieces & I like the results)!