Use of ether for starting

[RaydaKub]

We called it ether, but I'm sure the can said starting fluid, if there really is a difference. But as a young teen I had no idea what it would do. The old Case 730 was ornery when it got down to freezing. We parked it by the fuel barrel and that was about 75 feet from any electrical outlet so plugging it in was not convenient. If a little ether was good, more was better. I gave it a good shot and it wouldn't fire. I gave it some more, still nothing. Give it a big slurp and she took off. And proceeded to blow the top ring off the muffler. I never used quite that much again, but it still never occurred to me that it could blow out the rings. Glad it didn't though.

 

[daugen]

3 cold starts and an ether explanation - YouTube
Why you don't use ether and 6.9 tear down p4 - YouTube

I wonder if the tractor is "cold hearted" due to too MUCH ether use...
skip to minute two on the Wagner one

 

[crazyal]

It makes me wonder, how much either are people spraying into their engines? I use it all the time in the dead of winter on both of my Cases. The dozer has a built in either spray system but I just do it myself. I've never needed anything more than the quickest of sprays. Just enough to get the cylinder to fire once. Are people going with the idea that one can is good for two or three starts?

 

[john_bud]

It makes me wonder, how much either are people spraying into their engines? I use it all the time in the dead of winter on both of my Cases. The dozer has a built in either spray system but I just do it myself. I've never needed anything more than the quickest of sprays. Just enough to get the cylinder to fire once. Are people going with the idea that one can is good for two or three starts?

While nobody smart enough to come to this forum would do it, I have seen ether commonly used wtih 3-5 seconds of spray time. That's enough to do some serious damage. All you need is a 1/2 second shot... a quick spritz is it. Best to not use it at all.

As far as why is it "bad", well the stuff is so flammable that it can and does fire off as the piston is still going up. Then the inertia of the flywheel and the power of the starter is combating the pressure of the burning ether , burning fuel, burning oil in the chamber. It's also a VERY much faster flame front than normal combustion so the pressure spikes high and fast. The most common issue is broken rings, bent rings, blown out rings, then broken piston ring lands, then broken pistons, bend rods, bent cranks etc etc. Mechanics LOVE guys that spray that stuff like air freshener, the repair bills have sent many to fancy vacations, bought boats, etc etc.

I call it devil juice....

 

[KennyG]

The "starting fluid" you buy is diluted and unlikely to cause damage to gas engines (due to the lower compression ratio) unless you go crazy with it. I've got an 8 HP Kohler on a chipper shredder that has never started cold without starting fluid. I don't know why it's so hard starting (I've tuned it, cleaned it, etc) but I've had it for 13 or 14 years now, using starting fluid every time I start it and it runs fine and uses no oil. That said, I wouldn't use it on my John Deere.

 

[cqaigy2]

I've used it for years, but not for 3-5 seconds. One of the funniest things i've seen with either was a buddy of mine was trying to start a ford pickup with a pretty shot motor. It was probably in the teens F. and he couldn't get his pos truck to start. Out came the either and a liberal amount was administered into the carb throat. The truck turned over and fired right up and just a split second later one of the valve covers blew up and almost made it through the hood. I believe all of us standing around hit the ground at about the same time. He eventually fixed the motor but not the hood.

 

[jake98]

I've used it for years, but not for 3-5 seconds. One of the funniest things i've seen with either was a buddy of mine was trying to start a ford pickup with a pretty shot motor. It was probably in the teens F. and he couldn't get his pos truck to start. Out came the either and a liberal amount was administered into the carb throat. The truck turned over and fired right up and just a split second later one of the valve covers blew up and almost made it through the hood. I believe all of us standing around hit the ground at about the same time. He eventually fixed the motor but not the hood.

that is way too funny!

 

[PapaPerk]

My 1981 John Deere 2240 has a factory port on the dash to screw in an ether can to give it a shot to aid in cold starting. Never had to use it, but it is there...

Yeah Deere sells there own ether cans. Good stuff. Never had any issues with starting fluid.... Not sure what all the fuss is about.

 

[deepNdirt]

Have you ever been able to start your tractor without the use of Ether?

 

[PapaPerk]

All the time. But use starting fluid on some stubborn engines. Deere fluid has oil in it. But what do I know... :0p

 

[schmism]

Yeah Deere sells there own ether cans. Good stuff. Never had any issues with starting fluid.... Not sure what all the fuss is about.

From working on CAT motorgraders, i can tell you there are cans of ether installed on them from the factory for cold starting.

 

[deepNdirt]

From working on CAT motorgraders, i can tell you there are cans of ether installed on them from the factory for cold starting.

Sure but the industrial built equipment will have pistons the size of coffee cans and made of much thicker materials and can take the use of speacially formulated ether needed to help to get it started, I thought we were generally speaking of standard farm equipment under 50 hp machines, with the use of ether bought from a auto parts store,
I can remember some of the old aircrafts engines of the 30's requiring a loaded black powder shell casing as a backup starting method had to be inserted in a chamber to get the engine fired over,

 

[EE_Bota]

My 1981 John Deere 2240 has a factory port on the dash to screw in an ether can to give it a shot to aid in cold starting. Never had to use it, but it is there...

I used an 1155 M-F that had a built in ether system.

 

[crashz]

My father had and still has some equipment with ether starting devices. With that said, we fired everything off with ether in the winter with the exception of anything with glow plugs or grid heaters. When the glow plugs burnt out, ether was used.

We never had any issues. But I've never seen anyone blast more than 1/2 - 1 second of starting fluid into an air cleaner. 3 seconds would launch a piston!

I'd say inexperience with ether is the engine killer.

 

[Gary Fowler]

My father had and still has some equipment with ether starting devices. With that said, we fired everything off with ether in the winter with the exception of anything with glow plugs or grid heaters. When the glow plugs burnt out, ether was used.

We never had any issues. But I've never seen anyone blast more than 1/2 - 1 second of starting fluid into an air cleaner. 3 seconds would launch a piston!

I'd say inexperience with ether is the engine killer.

I have to agree here. Many farm tractors had ether systems for starting rather than glow plugs. IIRC our 9000 Ford had one and the operators manual warned not to push the button more than 2 seconds. It usually started without any starting fluid (ether) unless it was bitter cold in Louisiana which means below freezing. Excess of anything is bad, even water can kill you if you drink too much.

 

[daugen]

Definitely a less is more approach seems to work best here. That's why someone told me to spray the air filter not down the throat to dilute the concentration I suppose.
Perhaps longer acting? Not sure as effective. They ought to build in a dosage controller on the can to not allow more than a second spray. Hardhat required on second use...

I guess the earlier diesels with their large iron blocks could take a fair amount of abuse and keep ticking. Maybe ring and piston design, or lower combustion ratio. I bet some of you know.
So if John Deere wanted to make sure your tractor worked in January in Minnesota, it made sure to provide an ether port. Because it worked without apparently significantly reducing engine life.
Or maybe it did...certainly the Southern states would not use ether very much; wonder if there's any data on cold vs. warm climates for tractor diesel longevity.
Was ether like smoking, something denied for so long? Well, I'll always keep a can of starting fluid, usually they get pretty old and rusty from not much use. But quite handy if used sparingly and infrequently.

Ether, it's like crack for your Case...:licking:

 

[MHarryE]

At Allis-Chalmers prior to Deutz buying the place ether was the cold start method. Book said to remove the air cleaner cover to inject straight but on our proto fleet we always injected straight into the air intake, a 2 person job, one cranking and the other person spraying after the engine was cranking. Then came Deutz engines and harder cold starting but also more delicate. The engine came with a thermostatically controlled ether system that automatically sprayed when the temperature was below a certain temp. Fine until your ether can ran out and you didn't have a spare. A few years after I moved to Cat we started switching to Perkins for our little engines (less than 7 liters). I asked our Perkins rep about ether since we were putting a decal on the air cleaner stating no ether. He said it was just because people overdo it. The first Perkins we used (before buying the company) had a starting aid that consisted of a heating coil at the opening of the intake manifold along with a diesel line, solenoid valve, and diesel line. When cranking the cold engine the coil would get very hot, the solenoid would open a valve spraying diesel into the manifold starting a fire that warmed the incoming air. It was a small fire so it didn't burn all of the oxygen and defeat the purpose. You can imagine spraying ether into that - explosion before the ether got close to the combustion chamber. With Tier 3 that changed to glow plugs and cold starts down to -15F but below that we say use an additional starting aid and don't mention ether like it doesn't exist knowing if the engine has to start in really cold weather, ether gets used and unless overused, it will not hurt long term engine life any more than having to endure really cold starts in the first place. Block heaters, oil heaters, heated garages, anything you can do to help.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Harry, Thanks for that informed and detailed historical account. Very interesting.

 

[JohninCT]

I use starting fluid on gas engines all the time... weed wacker, push lawnmower, chain saw. If they sit around and won't start after a half dozen or so pulls a little squirt of starting fluid gets them going. Never experienced any knocking, explosions, etc. Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[PapaPerk]

My father had and still has some equipment with ether starting devices. With that said, we fired everything off with ether in the winter with the exception of anything with glow plugs or grid heaters. When the glow plugs burnt out, ether was used.

We never had any issues. But I've never seen anyone blast more than 1/2 - 1 second of starting fluid into an air cleaner. 3 seconds would launch a piston!

I'd say inexperience with ether is the engine killer.

:thumbsup: