Use of ether for starting

[daugen]

ether has been used for a long time to start old/cold diesels, but what about the use on gas engines?
I'm amazed how many YouTubers spray ether down the carb throat, when I was told the right way to do it, if you really had to do it,
was spray some on the air filter and let it be ingested that way.

Obviously ether is seriously flammable, explosive I'm sure, but so is gasoline. What harm does ether do?
Lot of comments on other threads about NOT using ether but the word sure hasn't gotten out.
Warranty techs say "oh, we can tell immediately and it will void your warranty". Why? They treat it like we are sticking an M80
down the carb.

With all of the ethanol issues leading to hard starting, is ether just the wrong choice 100% of the time? I use it very sparingly and not very often, but
always wondered why there was so much divergence in opinion on it.

 

[newbury]

<snip>

With all of the ethanol issues leading to hard starting, is ether just the wrong choice 100% of the time?<snip>

If your running your diesel on ethanol you've got problems.

I've used WD40 SPARINGLY, BUT it's liable to explode my engine.

 

[plumr]

A engine that has a hard time starting should be tuned. A diesel engine once you start using ether after a while it wont start with out it even when its warm. Using it on a gas engine is a accident waiting to happen. This is personal experince but do what you want.

 

[daugen]

If your running your diesel on ethanol you've got problems.
agreed, I was referring to gas engines.
explode my engine + a accident waiting to happen.
I understand the concern, but why? Too volatile?
I never used ether on my diesel boat engines and I sure and heck aren't going to on my new Kubota, but
I'm just trying to understand why this often used starting aid is so hard on the engine.

 

[V1Rotate]

When ether ignites, it burns much more rapidly than gasoline or diesel, it's more like a small explosion. So when it ignites in the combustion chamber it hits the top of the piston while the piston is still moving upward. This causes severe stress on the pistons which can damage them.You can hear this happening, some people call it spark knock but the real name for this is detonation

 

[BIG DOOLEY]

Ether and diesel engines with glow plug are a definite NO NO.
The Diesel Blog: Starting tips in cold weather

 

[daugen]

You should never use ether on a light duty diesel for several reasons from the Diesel Blog
so this suggests that ether is ok on heavy duty diesels, since they are built so heavily that the extra stress on the pistons is tolerable?

I'm not advocating ether at all, just wondering why it can wreck an engine, and I guess volatility is the answer; it really is like a little M80 in the chamber.
And obviously gas engines are much lighter constructed, so the opportunity for terminal damage is greater for them. But...it is amazing how much ether is sprayed into every conceivable
type of engine on YouTube, and on some, they just keep spraying it in, like gasoline. Definitely makes the engine rev up...

Is WD40 a relatively safer alternative? Sure have plenty of that around. Must be less volatile.

 

[JerryK]

My 1981 John Deere 2240 has a factory port on the dash to screw in an ether can to give it a shot to aid in cold starting. Never had to use it, but it is there...

 

[Johnp33]

I worked as a profession on Class eights, if you use either it will put gray streaks on the liners, the rings on an engine are actually cupped up, on the power stroke the preasure flattens them out, either will actually bend them down making them useless.
That is the reason on most engines there are marks for the top side of the rings. If you take apart a diesel engine the wear is on the lower edge, the top 70 % is just polished.
What I use to start a Diesel is Gas on a slightly damp rag, over the air filter. On a gas engine, plug it in.
On a side note Bio fuel is the very best fuel lubricity aditive there is better than every aditive you can buy and is a cetain booster.
Ethanol in gas does nothing as a disadvantage to starting, it does not hurt carburetor part. in you lawn mower.
Just a thought!

 

[Mechanos]

Use of ether on a the small diesels has also been known to crush or collapse the ring lands on the pistons. Obviously not good.

 

[bcjmmac]

Don't have to use it on my JD & don't need to plug it in as I keep it indoors.
My experience is that ether doesn't hurt diesel engines. I grew up on a farm & we had to use ether to get our old cockshutt (~40hp) started in the winter(when it got much below freezing & hadn't been run for a few days) - despite plugging it in, using glow plugs, & even leaving it in the barn (at times). Didn't effect starting in the summer, but I suspect that there wasn't much difference between summer & winter diesel in those days which might have been an associated issue//we only had one storage tank and am pretty sure it got filled in the spring when the money was coming in (as well don't think dad changed to a lighter oil in the winter). As to engine longevity - Dad bought it used in the early 60s (63 or 64) and last I heard it was still being used by a gas station for show clearing in the winter (we traded up in the 80s).

FWIW

 

[bcjmmac]

Don't have to use it on my JD & don't need to plug it in as I keep it indoors.
My experience is that ether doesn't hurt diesel engines. I grew up on a farm & we had to use ether to get our old cockshutt (~40hp) started in the winter - despite plugging it in, using glow plugs, & even leaving it in the barn (at times). Didn't effect starting in the summer, but I suspect that there wasn't much difference between summer & winter diesel in those days which might have been an associated issue//we only had one storage tank and am pretty sure it got filled in the spring when the money was coming in. As to engine longevity - Dad bought it used in the early 60s (63 or 64) and last I heard it was still being used by a gas station for show clearing in the winter (we traded up in the 80s).

FWIW

 

[Turbys_1700]

We have used either for years with no adverse effects...
Our AC 8050 has a canister for either in the front of the engine that will spray it into the air breather for hard starts...
We hardly ever use it on the AC or our other tractors but use it on our older crawler, loader, and backhoe...
Those units set for long periods of time and need a shot to get fired up...

 

[CNC Dan]

you can also redline a diesel engine with starting fluid. Diesel engines are fuel throttled, not air throttled, so too much ether and then the engine starts and you can't control it.

 

[Gordon Gould]

My dozer sits in the woods. No glow plugs, no plug in. Starts right up down to about 40*. Will start unaided down to 30* but takes some cranking. Below that ether is the only way. I have no choice except maybe the gas rag I saw earlier in this post. I only need to give it a small shot in the air intake. It has a solenoid operated canister hookup in the engine compartment with a switch on the dash but I don't use it after reading stories of what happens when you accidentally spray a charge of ether into an engine that is already hot and running. Almost certain damage.

 

[deepNdirt]

Rapid engine and cylinder wear can occur when using ether (starting fluid), Ether works by quickly drying up and evaporating the lubrication in a cylinder wall and on piston, rings or on any other upper internal engine part that may have become in-saturated with oils, Ether causes higher compression within the cylinder and can loosen carbon particles from the valves resulting in scaring the cylinder walls, Though Diesel engine are not quit as prone to damage right away because of the oil base petroleum being used, although will ultimately after enough use will cause excessive cylinder wall piston,ring wear and damage to the bearings, If your lucky enough that it doesn't do immediate damage then it will for certain have developed a dependency on the use of ether,
I used to work on 2 stroke cycle engines, and have removed the heads to find the skirt of a piston shattered and fallen down inside the crank-case, Piston rings melted to the pistons, Holes blown into the top of the pistons, and off course expensive damage to a Nicol cylinder wall liner, .............. what could have been an enexpensive 175.00 top-end rebuild kit turn into 1,200 total engine rebuild or a 1,800 replacement.
All cycle mechanics or any engine mechanic can depend on having plenty of work so as long as people continue the use of ether as their
( Quick fix ) Not!

 

[20 20]

DeepNdirt, makes a good point ether will dry the lubricants out of the engine. I have used ether in past years but only on engines that had 20,000hrs+ and were pretty much on there last leg. As someone mentioned if ether is needed find a better solution, tune up, some type of heat source, glow plug. Heck I remember the ole timers building a small fire under their diesel beasts to get everything warmed up to start. In the winter you could mix in a bit of kero to help keeps things going. I'm sure there are many alternatives that would be much better then ether.

 

[homedad]

I used it once on my old Kubota L185DT when it was so cold that the glow plug was doing nothing. The thing knocked so badly that I thought it was going to break something. After that I started putting an electric heat gun under the oil pan for an hour to warm things up.

 

[puckgrinder85]

I've seen heads blown off gasoline and diesels alike, if it doesnt come with a port for an ether bottle than it doesnt get sprayed into the engine. Are we talking straight ether or "starting fluid" as I think there are some differences, as in % of ether used. I would never condone it on anything. If the engine doesnt start there is a reason. SOME engines definatly come with port to use it and have seen plenty of those as well.

If you're doing it as a last resort dont stand anywhere near the engine while its cranking or in the path of heads etc..