How much rear ballast on L3130 with LA723 loader?

[moship]

I have always left the backhoe on, but have a need to use the tractor without and thus need some rear ballast. Neither the FEL Operating Manual or Assembly Manual details the recommended weight when using a 3-pt ballast box.

I have the opportunity to buy a used JD ballast box (with extensions), but it is only 6.5 cubic feet in volume (Size recommended for JD 3x20 tractors). This equates to roughly 650 pounds of sand. The Kubota Ballast Box for this tractor is rated at 845 pounds of sand, so I'm assuming it is 8.45 cubic feet in volume.

For the record my rear tires are unloaded and I have no desire to fill them for ballast.

1) Is 650 pounds enough for this tractor and loader combination?
2) Do any of the newer manuals list recommended 3-pt ballast weights for similar loaders?
3) Anyone interested in selling me a Kubota L8170 ballast box or equivalent?

 

[case245]

i dont know about your model but my LA 1153 i have the cast centers they are 350 ibs each i have the tires filled with anti freeze they are 600 ibs each tire so that about 950 each tire and that not enough at times there should be charts on the net some where to tell you how much wieght for the 3pt or call a kubota dealer and ask them

 

[kevinj]

You need to ballast for what it will lift plus the loader weight out front.

On my L3940, same loader I have about 2200 with the loaded tires and at time wish I had a bit more.

3PH ballast is 1200# by itself,

What does your BH weigh, you need at least that much...............

 

[moship]

case245, I called the dealer. They suggested 600 to 800 lbs.

Details on Kubota's Ballast Box:
L8170 Ballast Box for L Series and L35 845 lb. capacity dry sand. The total weight of the ballast box with sand is 1000 lb.

Kevinj, I believe the backhoe is over 2,000 lbs but couldn't find it listed in the BH90 Operator Manual

 

[Notforhire]

I built a counterweight for my L3240 w/724 loader. It weighs right around 800 lbs. It works well. My Ag tires are loaded however, which adds about 480#. I think our tractor/ loaders are very close in size and weight. Without the counterweight, if I have anything in the bucket, even a few hundred pounds, I need to use 4WD just to go up my gravel drive and not spin the rear tires. Because of this I intend on adding whl. weights, not for doing heavy FEL work, but just to make it more stable.

Even if you don't intend on loading the tires, I would think 800# would work OK. More counterweight would take some more load off the front axle, which isn't a bad thing. I haven't heard case245, or anyone else complain that there is too much weight on the rear of their Kubota.
Moship how does your machine feel with no weight on the rear? Must be wild in road gear!:shocked:
Bill

 

[moship]

I only used it one time with out any type of ballast (mostly the backhoe is attached) and that was enough to realize some rear ballast is needed.

Thanks for the input and I'll try your suggestion of 800 lbs and go from there.

I really found it odd the owners manual didn't have any suggestions. The dealer I called had never seen any published data from Kubota.

 

[Notforhire]

BTW moship if you filled that 6.5 qft. JD box with concrete @ 150 lbs per, you would have 975 lbs plus the weight of the box. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Best, Bill

 

[moship]

Notforhire,

Thanks,
I thought about concrete, but not certain if I want to go that route just yet. I'm thinking of using some scrap metal and sand to fill the gaps. This should yield a higher weight depending on how much steel I can get. Steel is approximately 490 lbs/cuft.

 

[dstig1]

Same as my setup L3130 LA723. I have 14.9-24 ? Rears that are filled with beet juice. In addition I have my winch (400#) or my box blade at 600#?. I have never been able to lift the rear end. The loader just doesn't lift enough to counteract that weight. On side hills, slope or disturbances when driving, all bets are off...

 

[Notforhire]

Notforhire,

Thanks,
I thought about concrete, but not certain if I want to go that route just yet. I'm thinking of using some scrap metal and sand to fill the gaps. This should yield a higher weight depending on how much steel I can get. Steel is approximately 490 lbs/cuft.

In an old post from case245, he mentioned not being able to use a counterweight because he needed to have a hitch on the rear. This has also been a problem for me as I have to remove my weight just to drag my chain harrow, move a trailer, ect.
To correct this, I am building a new counterweight. As you mentioned steel is 490#/cuft. A friend just gave me 3pcs of steel. total wt. 741 lbs. This counterweight will be much more compact than concrete, and I intend on incorporating a 2 in square reciever in the design. This hopefully, should solve my hitch problem, and reduce the need to remove the weight as often.
I think scrap is running around 10 cents per/lbs. Just another thing for you to ponder.:scratchchin:

Best, Bill

 

[bbwithdrawls]

instead of the ballast box get a 6 ft box scraper , kill 2 birds with one stone , if need be you can add a little weight to it but i doubt you'll need to , thats how mine is 3430 with fel

 

[PandDLong]

I just purchased a L3540 with the LA724 Loader (rated 1865 pounds lift @ pivot @ full height). The dealer looked up the ballast recommendations and said I need 800 pounds on the 3PH. Sold me a Kubota Ballast Box - the LM8244 which weights 200 pounds empty. I measured it up and it is about 5 cubic feet - my local sand supply is about 110 to 120 pounds per cubic foot, so I will be real close once I fill it.

I have not loaded my tires and will use the tractor for awhile as-is to see if I need it - I am hoping not to load the tires so I can have a lower "lowest" weight and to avoid the experience I had with my last tractor which had tires loaded with CaCl and it was a real pain any time I had a tire issue.

I don't know what formulas Kubota uses to determine recommended ballast weight but they do have a recommendation - it seems to be a dealer-only piece of knowledge as I can't find anything on the web. I can't even find the Kubota Ballast Boxes listed with specs anywhere....

Good luck, I'll be interested to hear of your experiences.

 

[moship]

PandDLong,

Thanks for the info.

I couldn't find any info on the LM8244 but found a few pictures. It's interesting how it connects.

Here's the only info I found from the L-Series WholeGoods Pricelist:
BALLAST BOX
Description and P/N: L8170 Ballast Box (1000 lbs cap. with dry sand)
Weight: 168
Cost: $449.00

 

[k0ua]

Well if you want my opinion, and I guessed you asked for it sort of The 800 lbs is no where near enough for a loader that lifts around 1800 lbs at the pins.. My Kioti outweighs your Kubota, and does not lift as much at the pins 1800 vs 1400, and Kioti recommends 1100 lbs for rear ballast. I have fluid filled tires (methanol) and that helps a bunch, and I use about 800 lbs of ballast on the 3 point ( I am carrying several log chains in my box now as a little extra weight) and it is barely enough, and I could use some more. Here is a little test you can do. Put one edge (left or right) of your bucket under a rock ledge, or something that will not move. then operate the lift, and see if the opposite side rear tire comes off of the ground. If it does you do not have enough ballast. Where you will really notice problems is when you are nose down and attempting to lift something, your weight is already on the front axle from being in the nose down attitude, and as soon as you start prying on something to lift it, that is when the rears come up off of the ground, and then the tractor usually starts to tip to one side because the front axle is on a single pivot point and relies on the rear tires which do not articulate to keep you from tipping to one side. The loaded tires also give you more stability on side hills when for instance your ballast is off of the tractor, and you are mowing with a rotary cutter. Good luck.

James K0UA

 

[Verticaltrx]

Most of the time Kubota lists the rear ballast requirements in the manual for the loader, not the tractor. I know in my manual for my LA504 it gives the recommend ballast using a ballast box (including its weight with different materials) and also the average weight of different implements commonly used for ballast.

 

[moship]

Verticaltrx,

Thanks for the comment, but in the Operator's Manual for LA513, LA723 and LA853 there is no recommendation given. [The assembly instructions have no recommendation either.] I was hoping the info was added in later revisions or new loader models, and that someone could provide the info on similar FEL's.

For heavy loads I can always attach the Backhoe which is over 2,300 lbs

 

[Notforhire]

Verticaltrx,

Thanks for the comment, but in the Operator's Manual for LA513, LA723 and LA853 there is no recommendation given. [The assembly instructions have no recommendation either.] I was hoping the info was added in later revisions or new loader models, and that someone could provide the info on similar FEL's.

For heavy loads I can always attach the Backhoe which is over 2,300 lbs

My loader manual for the LA514, 724, and 854 says that you should use 3 PT ballast. " The amount of rear ballast will depend on the application."
So no help there. If Kubota is willing to install a backhoe that weighs 2K lbs, you can certainly use ballast of the same weight. If you intend on lifting to full capacity you may need that much. As they say " it will depend on the application. ". As I said before, more counterweight isn't a bad thing, but if you are only lifting 1/3 yard of mulch 2000# probably isn't necessary. IMHO

"The loaded tires also give you more stability on side hills when for instance your ballast is off of the tractor, and you are mowing with a rotary cutter."
I couldn't agree more. If you don't want to load your tires. You may want to think about wheel weights.

Bill

 

[johnk]

I have a 3130 w/ 723 loader and before I loaded the tires it was pretty hairy using the loader if a little off camber. That is with a 650 pound box blade on. The best thing I ever did was load the tires and keep the BB on while using the loader. I also have PEC on my tractor which sets the BB back a little further giving me more ballast. It's a great feeling when you lift a full bucket and the back wheels stay on the ground.

 

[LD1]

If you are not planning on loading the tires, I agree that 800# is nowhere near enough. Heck, 800# wouldnt be enough on my MUCH smaller 3400 if my tires werent loaded. And even with my 700# rear blade, (which puts the weight about 24" farther back vs a box), AND loaded tires, it is just BARLEY enough. A slight downhill grade and the rear can be light quick.

800# is certainly better than nothing. But I would want about twice that hanging back there. A 55gallon barrel filled to the brim with concrete is 1200#. that would be a good start. But as someone else mentioned, why does the weight have to be in the form of useless concrete or sand? How about a implement of some type? 6' bushhog? 6' HD box blade?

 

[johnk]

10bags of concrete. 1 plastic barrel. 1 7/8 bar. Total > $50.00. New implement 400+. **** I'd get the implement unless the barrel could also be used for a roller....