Big box stores: Inferior tools?

[marimus]

Also, a item may have the same part number, but the serial number is what really counts. Manufacturers will have multiple suppliers building sub-assemblies for them.

I have seen two Makita angle grinders, same model number different prices. One says made in Japan, one says made in China. Same model number on both.

 

[fuzzdogdwh]

I have heard that there are very few lawn mower manufactors (3 or 4) and they make all different brands of mowers. Same with washing machines. I worked at a electric motor plant and got to see many different major brands go down the line.

 

[Obed]

My personal observation when we built our house (moved in 1 1/2 years ago), was that, in general, the quality of the big box stores' building materials was much lower and more expensive than we could get through our building supply company and other places. I can't speak to the quality of tools at the BB stores versus elsewhere.

Specifically, the lumber at Lowes and Home Depot was awful. It was difficult to find a straight board there. They obviously found the cheapest, wettest, least cured lumber that could be found. Frequently our framer would not plan ahead and, instead of ordering the lumber he needed from our building supply company, he would show up with a pickup truck or trailer load of lumber from HD or Lowes. We paid for materials so the framer didn't care what they cost. I would get perturbed when I paid more for lumber that was obviously lower quality that what we got from the building supply company.

HD and Lowes are NOT the Walmart of the building industry. I have not found the BB stores prices to be better than what I could find at the hardware store, the lumber store, or the electrical store. I have found that the BB stores are more convenient because you can get all your stuff at one stop. But you pay a premium for that convenience, lower quality at a higher price.

There are some things, like lawn mowers, that may be the least expensive at the BB stores, but I did not experience them to have the best price for building materials. I frequently shop the BB stores because they are convenient and my available time is limited.

Obed

 

[Code54]

Would not buy a high $ item at a box store, I agree that they are not made to the same standard. Case in point, I bought a Husqvarna lawn tractor from a Husqvarna dealer. Used it once, both front tires were flat when I went to use it the second time. Dealer tubed both tires-no charge. After about 30 hours, the transmission bolts broke-dealer picked it up, repaired with grade 8 bolts (Husq. used grade 2's), delivered it back to me-no charge. What do you think would have happened if I had bought it at Lowes or TSC? SOL!

Think I would have preferred the box store and just returned it and moved on. Buddy had one (a Husqvarna) and had a ton of problems (broken spindle, tranny noise/slip and something else) before he had it 2 months. He took it back and argued a bit and they refunded his money. He later bought a much more expensive Kubota and has been happy with it. the great thing was he didnt loose a dime on the box store one - granted the manager had a lot to do with that but he agreed he was having too many problems and made it right.

 

[Gator6x4]

For you guys that don't buy your tools at the box stores, where do you go?

Eddie

I am with you Eddie and agree with what you said.(Yes I know shocked me to) I buy at Lowes, HD, etc. I purchase Porter Cable, Makita, Dewalt. Now I do not buy TASK FORCE, HUSKY, etc and then complain about cheap tools not lasting. When you buy the "House" tools at Lowe's or HD you will get cheap tools. I am waiting for an answer to your question on where they are buying their tools.

I cannot see Lowe’s, Home Depot or any other large well know retail sales company selling “Knock Off” tools, appliances, fixtures, lighting or plumbing. They are not in business to: “Go Out Of Business”. They do sell low end lawn mowers. The consumer of today is not willing to pay in excess of $6,000 dollars to purchase a lawn mower. A lot of quality lawn mowers, Wheel Horse, Cub Cadet, Bolen’s to name a few that were available years ago are not sold anymore. Some lawn mowers have been cheapened to the point of being something one uses for two-three years and then thrown away.

One who go to Lowes or HD and buys a riding lawn mower thinking they are going to get the same mower in a one hundred series JD mower for $2,000 as a seven hundred series sold by a JD Dealer for $10,000 - $12,000 dollars because they are both green and have the John Deere Name affixed needs to drink a couple more cups of coffee before leaving the house.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I thought the cheap tools were the ones you bought at walmart and firehouse tool sales ($5 for a complete socket set), and the good tools were from HD and Lowes.

My house is now 15 yrs old, I've only had to replace one HD moan faucet. I have replaced a couple of their cheap Hampton Bay ceiling fans. Watching those TV remodeling shows, most people throw out perfectly good things just to get the in thing.

 

[smilingreen]

I am with you Eddie and agree with what you said.(Yes I know shocked me to) I buy at Lowes, HD, etc. I purchase Porter Cable, Makita, Dewalt. Now I do not buy TASK FORCE, HUSKY, etc and then complain about cheap tools not lasting. When you buy the "House" tools at Lowe's or HD you will get cheap tools. I am waiting for an answer to your question on where they are buying their tools.

I cannot see Lowe痴, Home Depot or any other large well know retail sales company selling �nock Off tools, appliances, fixtures, lighting or plumbing. They are not in business to: 敵o Out Of Business? They do sell low end lawn mowers. The consumer of today is not willing to pay in excess of $6,000 dollars to purchase a lawn mower. A lot of quality lawn mowers, Wheel Horse, Cub Cadet, Bolen痴 to name a few that were available years ago are not sold anymore. Some lawn mowers have been cheapened to the point of being something one uses for two-three years and then thrown away.

One who go to Lowes or HD and buys a riding lawn mower thinking they are going to get the same mower in a one hundred series JD mower for $2,000 as a seven hundred series sold by a JD Dealer for $10,000 - $12,000 dollars because they are both green and have the John Deere Name affixed needs to drink a couple more cups of coffee before leaving the house.

Well, one place you can order your professional grade tools is on Amazon. There are 100's of of other online retailers that sell name brand hand tools and power tools for professionals. I know that these are quickly becoming a thing of the past, but larger independently owned hardware stores and independent building supply houses also carry professional grade tools. Local electrical and plumbing supply houses that sell to professionals is another great place to pick up professional grade tools. Yes, their prices are higher than what would seem to be the equivalent power or hand tool at a big box store, but these independent businesses know what type of tools professionals use & need and know what type abuse these tools get on a daily basis. In this day and age of cut throat competition between them and the big box stores, they are not going to risk losing a valued customer over them pawning off an inferior grade consumer grade power or hand tool, just to maybe make a quick buck or two. These companies have worked too hard over the years to create and maintain their professional customer base. Most professional contractors will buy their heavy duty power tools and hand tools from these independent suppliers, because they know that they are not getting consumer grade power tools marketed as professional grade tools. There are certain tools I will buy at the big box store, but usually it is a tool that I know I will use only once or twice and then it will sit on the shop shelf collecting dust until I sell it to someone looking for that type of tool or I have a yard sale. My day-to-day professional tools I use in my profession I purchase mostly on-line and have them shipped to me. They are expensive, but I make my living with my tools.

 

[jymbee]

... these independent businesses know what type of tools professionals use & need and know what type abuse these tools get on a daily basis. In this day and age of cut throat competition between them and the big box stores, they are not going to risk losing a valued customer over them pawning off an inferior grade consumer grade power or hand tool, just to maybe make a quick buck or two.

There a few vintage hardware stores around here that seem to be doing quite well in spite of the competition from the BB stores. The guys (and gals) at the counter have an amazing depth of knowledge and seem to be able to answer just about any question you throw at them and offer specific advice for solutions.

I remember when the BB stores were starting to catch on, floor personnel seemed pretty clueless. But today more often than not (in my experience at least) you can talk to someone who knows their stuff. Yet another factor working against the independent stores I suppose.

 

[Pops15]

I am with you Eddie and agree with what you said.(Yes I know shocked me to) I buy at Lowes, HD, etc. I purchase Porter Cable, Makita, Dewalt. Now I do not buy TASK FORCE, HUSKY, etc and then complain about cheap tools not lasting. When you buy the "House" tools at Lowe's or HD you will get cheap tools. I am waiting for an answer to your question on where they are buying their tools.

I cannot see Lowe’s, Home Depot or any other large well know retail sales company selling “Knock Off” tools, appliances, fixtures, lighting or plumbing. They are not in business to: “Go Out Of Business”. They do sell low end lawn mowers. The consumer of today is not willing to pay in excess of $6,000 dollars to purchase a lawn mower. A lot of quality lawn mowers, Wheel Horse, Cub Cadet, Bolen’s to name a few that were available years ago are not sold anymore. Some lawn mowers have been cheapened to the point of being something one uses for two-three years and then thrown away.
One who go to Lowes or HD and buys a riding lawn mower thinking they are going to get the same mower in a one hundred series JD mower for $2,000 as a seven hundred series sold by a JD Dealer for $10,000 - $12,000 dollars because they are both green and have the John Deere Name affixed needs to drink a couple more cups of coffee before leaving the house.

If I were in the market for power tools I'd do as someone suggested and by from one of the supply houses if buying new or live or online auctions if buying used. I've had very good luck buying quality used tools at contractor close out auctions. I've bought enough tools from Lowes and Menards that I don't expect much from them any more. Conversely, the tools I've gotten at mom & pop stores have held up great. Some for 35 years.
As far as faucets, etc....buy a Moen faucet from a plumbing supply house and buy the exact same (in appearance) faucet from Lowes. Take them apart and look at the difference....and there most definitely is a difference! Moen actually has a good warrantee, even on their cheaper line the box stores sell so I'm not saying the one from the supply house will be a better buy, just better quality.
I'm a remodeling contractor. I deal with these issues every day.
I have a nephew in management with a home improvement box store chain, a niece in management with a general merchandise box store chain, and a brother that was in management with a building products manufacturer so I've heard about this from the supply side of things as well.

 

[Pops15]

There a few vintage hardware stores around here that seem to be doing quite well in spite of the competition from the BB stores. The guys (and gals) at the counter have an amazing depth of knowledge and seem to be able to answer just about any question you throw at them and offer specific advice for solutions.

I remember when the BB stores were starting to catch on, floor personnel seemed pretty clueless. But today more often than not (in my experience at least) you can talk to someone who knows their stuff. Yet another factor working against the independent stores I suppose.

The help at the box stores are mostly clueless around here. At one time the local Lowes did have retired plumber that really knew his stuff. The people they have now will go the other direction when they see a customer. We don't have a local HD store but the ones I've been to in other areas have employees that are more helpful, but not necessarily knowledgeable.

 

[mikehaugen]

The help at the box stores are mostly clueless around here. At one time the local Lowes did have retired plumber that really knew his stuff. The people they have now will go the other direction when they see a customer. We don't have a local HD store but the ones I've been to in other areas have employees that are more helpful, but not necessarily knowledgeable.

The HD's near me, the people are to the point of being annoying. Every 15 steps I take someone is asking me if I need help with anything. I know that they are trying to be helpful, but anytime I have actually asked for help I would have been better off just looking for myself. I know my way around most of these places pretty well by now and would like to be left alone. I obviously see if there is an employee near me and if I needed help I would ask for it. Sorry, but I am sure that I am not the only one that feels this way.

 

[crazyal]

If it has the same part number then it's the same no matter where it was sold. It would be impossible for any company to try and deal with servicing and repair parts if one model number had different parts in it.

 

[Pops15]

If it has the same part number then it's the same no matter where it was sold. It would be impossible for any company to try and deal with servicing and repair parts if one model number had different parts in it.

That's what I thought until reading Smilingreen's posts. Check out posts 72 & 73.
After reading his comments about serial numbers I remembered hearing that many years ago about electronics.
It's really not impossible...I recently needed to replace a fuel injector on my F250. Even though there was only one version of the 5.4 engine offered, there were three different fuel injectors used. NAPA needed the VIN to get the correct fuel injector.

 

[jymbee]

The HD's near me, the people are to the point of being annoying. Every 15 steps I take someone is asking me if I need help with anything. I know that they are trying to be helpful, but anytime I have actually asked for help I would have been better off just looking for myself. I know my way around most of these places pretty well by now and would like to be left alone. I obviously see if there is an employee near me and if I needed help I would ask for it. Sorry, but I am sure that I am not the only one that feels this way.

Not unlike the "greeters" at Walmart & BestBuy e.g. Or the wait staff at a restaurant that interrupts conversations every five minutes to inquire as to your level of satisfaction.

Downright annoying IMO.

 

[EddieWalker]

I don't believe that you can get a different version of the same tool at different stores, and I really don't believe you can get a better quality, or better version of the same tool online. While I don't claim to be a tool expert, I read quite a few trade magazines and product reviews from testing tools. I've never read this anywhere, and in my experience, the only advantage to buying online is the pricing. If you are willing to deal with waiting for it and not being able to take it back to the store if it doesn't work, then online is a great option.

With electronics, it's the same product, but with a different number on it as a marketing scheme. HP pretty much ruined their name doing this. They created so many versions of the same thing, but used a different number on them so they could sell the same thing cheaper at Walmart then a computer store, but not offer any support for it. They sold tons of them, but also got just so many complaints that the brand name is now ruined. I think DeWalt has done the same thing. You can get them anywhere, but they don't last like they used to.

I buy based on brand name and reviews. I have nothing against trying a new brand, but refuse to buy low end tools. If it's an emergancy and I have to have it right away, I'll buy what I can find, but know it's not going to last very long. There are only two brands that I like. Makita and Bosch. Every other brand has failed me sooner then I would have expected. I will still buy those other brands if I read some really good reviews, like the Hitachi framing gun I just bought.

Eddie

 

[Carl Bert]

If it has the same part number then it's the same no matter where it was sold. It would be impossible for any company to try and deal with servicing and repair parts if one model number had different parts in it.

Yes thats true. The point being made here, is that HD and other BB store items DO NOT have the same model number. They are the same, plus an additional couple of letters or numbers, so it can be identified as the cheaper model.

 

[LD1]

Any of you guys have any examples of these PN in which they are the same + some extra #'s?

Not saying you are wrong, And I have never paid much attention, but I have never noticed.

 

[Oaktree]

The HD's near me, the people are to the point of being annoying. Every 15 steps I take someone is asking me if I need help with anything. I know that they are trying to be helpful, but anytime I have actually asked for help I would have been better off just looking for myself.

Yeah, but when you need one you can't find anyone.

 

[Carl Bert]

Any of you guys have any examples of these PN in which they are the same + some extra #'s?

Not saying you are wrong, And I have never paid much attention, but I have never noticed.

I don't have any on hand, but I do have a story that should help. My brother-in-law bought a Kohler bathroom faucet at a local supply shop. Before he got a chance to install it, he saw the exact same faucet at Home Depot for a cheaper price, so he bought it, with the intension of bringing the first one back to the supply house.

When he installed the HD faucet, he tightened the mounting bolts way too tight. When he stood up to look at it, it was all caved in. I don't know how else to explain it. Anyway it was ruined. He replaced it with the one from the plumbing supply shop, and it was fine.

Being a cheap guy, he figured he would return it to the plumbing supply shop, and get the higher price back. When he tried returning it, the salesman looked at the model number and said sorry, this was purchased at HD. He said trust me, you couldn't do this kind of damage to their faucet, unless you were using an impact gun. An exaggeration, sure, but he knew right away it wasn't his faucet.

True story.

 

[clemsonfor]

Its true, they will have the identical appliances as another store, say your local appliance store, but the model # will be specific to say lowes. You could buy the same dishwasher at the local store made by say kitchen aid. Model number may be something like 150Fx1a and many times the exact same thing identical looking same features colors etc sold at a place like lowes may be 150Fx1ab, only difference being the "b" or something at teh end. I have heard this too. They do this i have been told so they can use cheaper parts to meet a price point but also so the other stores dont have to "price match" cause the model number is not the same.