Oh, poor me...poor me !!!

[aczlan]

Romney and his 47%....how many people as he layed off? How much suffering has he contributed to the world?

How many has he prevented from being laid off? How many companies would have gone bankrupt if they hadn't stepped in (hint: start with Staples and Dominoes)? Look at both sides of the equation you must.

Aaron Z

 

[tractchores]

I think that the answer is a number of things, but there's definitely a generational thing going on (and I'm a young guy). A lot of the answer lies with ambition and people's willingness to do what it takes. That works both ways, you choose what you spend, you also I believe choose what you make.

I for example grew up with very meager means, but decided I was going to college, despite having no real way to do so for a variety of reasons. I had my first job before high school, in high school I at times had up to 5 jobs (yes 5) and would work every night and weekend, sometimes putting in 15+ hours per day on the weekends. Every cent went into savings for college. In the end it wasn't nearly enough, but luckily I made very good grades and was able to get an academic scholarship for a 2 year college. I went there and put my head down and got great grades. Upon graduating I could have easily walked into a 30k job (a huge amount for the area).

Instead I said I want a 4 year degree, but I can't pay for it, so I found a company that would pay me hourly and went to work again. I worked over 100 hours a week on average and saved every cent. My work got me more than cash though, the company realized how hard I was working and decided to put me through school at night providing that I kept up the work, so I went back to school - full time at night while working 100 hours per week. I barely slept, but it paid off, and 2 degrees later I'm now running my own company and have had amazing success.

I've got more money than I ever thought I would have of having and more opportunity too. I still live well below my means because I know how hard it was to get that money. I was never given anything and had to earn it all and work hard. That's why I believe that folks can work hard and control what they earn. If I had a $15 / hr job and I wanted more money I'd be in school at night, or I'd have multiple jobs. Settling is a choice and just waiting around with your hand-out is a choice. Personally for me it's one that I'll never make, but I have little sympathy for people who "can't" get work, you can always get work - it just may not be the work you want.

 

[buck12]

I think that the answer is a number of things, but there's definitely a generational thing going on (and I'm a young guy). A lot of the answer lies with ambition and people's willingness to do what it takes. That works both ways, you choose what you spend, you also I believe choose what you make.

I for example grew up with very meager means, but decided I was going to college, despite having no real way to do so for a variety of reasons. I had my first job before high school, in high school I at times had up to 5 jobs (yes 5) and would work every night and weekend, sometimes putting in 15+ hours per day on the weekends. Every cent went into savings for college. In the end it wasn't nearly enough, but luckily I made very good grades and was able to get an academic scholarship for a 2 year college. I went there and put my head down and got great grades. Upon graduating I could have easily walked into a 30k job (a huge amount for the area).

Instead I said I want a 4 year degree, but I can't pay for it, so I found a company that would pay me hourly and went to work again. I worked over 100 hours a week on average and saved every cent. My work got me more than cash though, the company realized how hard I was working and decided to put me through school at night providing that I kept up the work, so I went back to school - full time at night while working 100 hours per week. I barely slept, but it paid off, and 2 degrees later I'm now running my own company and have had amazing success.

I've got more money than I ever thought I would have of having and more opportunity too. I still live well below my means because I know how hard it was to get that money. I was never given anything and had to earn it all and work hard. That's why I believe that folks can work hard and control what they earn. If I had a $15 / hr job and I wanted more money I'd be in school at night, or I'd have multiple jobs. Settling is a choice and just waiting around with your hand-out is a choice. Personally for me it's one that I'll never make, but I have little sympathy for people who "can't" get work, you can always get work - it just may not be the work you want.

Well said.

 

[tractchores]

Doreen's Story - YouTube

Some humor on the subject.

 

[JDgreen227]

Doreen's Story - YouTube

Some humor on the subject.

Tractchores....thanks for sharing your experience...very informational. My dad grew up in the Depression years and when he wasn't in school or helping his father with the family farm he would do chores for other farmers, usually getting paid in either food or hay and grain to feed the horses. He had a favorite saying:

"There will always be work for the man who wants to"

 

[Hillman314]

Wow, the solution is to work 100 hours per week while going to night school. Impressive. 100 hours over (say) 6 days is 16-2/3 hrs per day, plus (let's say) 1 hour work commute, plus (say) 2-1/3 hours of classes, plus (say) 1-1/2 hour of homework per day, plus 1 hour school commute, plus (say) a generous 1 hour/day to "live" (eat, shower, do wash, pay bills, buy groceries, etc..) = 23-1/2 hours/day. -Wow you did get little sleep! Wait, what's this detector over here I hear beeping? (Perhaps my number estimates are wrong?)

 

[CBW1999]

Are you really going to try to say that today's historic unemployment rates are the result of people being too stuck up to take a job that they think is beneath them?

In short- YES! I think a fair percentage fall into that category. Otherwise there wouldn't be as many unskilled jobs listed as hiring.

Aha! So you agree that people should be given taxpayer-funded access the at least the basics of survival without having to justify that access? Awesome. I knew we could find some common ground. People need to justify their purchase of cigarettes or expensive cell phones, but they can have food and shelter and medical care on the taxpayer dime. I'd take that deal.

As long as we're at it, do you really need those tax deductions you took? I mean, you bought a tractor, but did you really need it? Or could you have paid that money to the government instead?

First part is out of context,

Yes I bought a tractor. Yes it was a small upgrade from the one that died. I had the need because I raise livestock to feed my family and, mow the lawn, clear snow.... I didn't claim the tractor as an exemption because it wasn't a business or allowable purchase expense and, I paid sales tax on it as well.

Oh..by the way- when I purchased it I had stable income, provided all needs for my family first by having a well planned budget that allowed for this purchase. Nor was I receiving any public assistance (or otherwise) that was based on not having enough money to provide for that basic need.

 

[tractorshopper]

Wow, heated issue. I think there may be some good breaks that come for some and bad breaks for others, but I also think what you do and your level of ambition can play into the equation. God has truly blessed me, no doubt. I joined the Navy so I could get married and have a steady income to provide for my young family. After getting out of the Navy, I got a full time job (in a good economy) at a company that had tuition reimbursement. Worked full time and went to school at night full time for the better part of 8 years. Received an associates, bachelor's and master's degree in that time. Was not an easy task while also our daughters came along during that time. Lot's of sleepless nights and lots of weekends spent studying. Lots of vacation days finishing projects and not doing stuff I wanted to do.

It has paid off in a big way as I've been promoted repeatedly over the years at work and my family life is very comfortable now, quite different than the struggles of starting out. I've told many a person along the way as encouragement that they can also pursue the same goals and that time goes by whether you're writing papers or sitting on the couch watching TV. Each makes their own decision and has different levels of risk and comfort. God has blessed me whether in spite of myself or by some gift he gave me. I do know one thing; I would not be nearly as financially secure or be raising my kids in near the same level of comfort had I not pursued the education. And no, the government didn't do it for me.

 

[Turbys_1700]

We are in a global economy...
The value of US labor is nothing more than the value of Vietnamese, Chinese, or Indian labor...
Companies will produce products at the lowest cost possible...
If this includes moving offshore if need be...
I don't like it...
Our standard of living will continue to erode as other countries continue to provide labor at lower costs than the US can...
It sucks...
But that is the way it is...

 

[riptides]

We are in a global economy...
The value of US labor is nothing more than the value of Vietnamese, Chinese, or Indian labor...
Companies will produce products at the lowest cost possible...
If this includes moving offshore if need be...
I don't like it...
Our standard of living will continue to erode as other countries continue to provide labor at lower costs than the US can...
It sucks...
But that is the way it is...

We use to RUN the Global Economy. We need to get back to being a leader, and not part of a resource pool.

 

[JDgreen227]

We use to RUN the Global Economy. We need to get back to being a leader, and not part of a resource pool.

Can we argue that reduced wages and benefits now being paid to employees of major companies like the Big 3 are a step in the right direction to recover the leadership of the Global Economy? Scares me just to imagine the wage/income level that will be required here to remain competive with offshore companies....

 

[MossflowerWoods]

Can we argue that reduced wages and benefits now being paid to employees of major companies like the Big 3 are a step in the right direction to recover the leadership of the Global Economy? Scares me just to imagine the wage/income level that will be required here to remain competive with offshore companies....

If we aim for the bottom we will surely hit it.

What we need is differentiation. Low skills jobs pay less, if we want high pay, need higher skills.

If USA is to rule the global economy is will not be with low level jobs...

We have a knowledge based economy, not a labor based economy.

Just my 2 cents, not about polyticks here, just how I see the workplace.

 

[CBW1999]

heated.... not really. I think that all of us have life experience that lead us to form morals, values and ethics. Our country is in dire straits with the "baby boomers" starting to exit the workforce there is essentially only one generation left with the "traditional" ideals that made his country prosper.

This particular discussion is just one symptom of many contributing the bigger problem. No easy fix-

 

[lockhaven]

Higher skills with less emphasis on education. Many jobs require a high skill level but do not need the college fine arts and social training. The problem is young people are being sent to college without any idea of what it is really for. Many degrees are just that degrees with nothing practical about them. "I have a BS in BS" so hire me. Some large companies have made the mistake of hiring only because of a degree and zero know how. The schools need to focus on what a person is good at and not what college they can get into. High tech jobs do not require college degrees if the person knows what makes something work. Apprenticeships and dedicated training would put far more people to work then everyone having a degree in some useless discipline.

 

[JDgreen227]

Higher skills with less emphasis on education. Many jobs require a high skill level but do not need the college fine arts and social training. The problem is young people are being sent to college without any idea of what it is really for. Many degrees are just that degrees with nothing practical about them. "I have a BS in BS" so hire me. Some large companies have made the mistake of hiring only because of a degree and zero know how. The schools need to focus on what a person is good at and not what college they can get into. High tech jobs do not require college degrees if the person knows what makes something work. Apprenticeships and dedicated training would put far more people to work then everyone having a degree in some useless discipline.

Well stated...one of my wife's nephews is now studying toward his MA in structural engineering....he spends a good part of his time outside of school actually working in his field to gain experience and he has utter scorn for those who earn a degree but have no real experience outside of their education. He describes such people as:

"Book smart, but life stupid." I concur....for many careers no amount of study and/or classroom time are going to be a substitute for hands on experience. I have a 41 year old step sister who just got her BA after going to college part time for 15 years...she has basically been a professional student since graduation from high school and basically the only work she has done was while self-employed doing web design. When she goes to an interview she is asked "Have you any work experience outside of self-employment?" After nearly a year, she is about to give up. Sad.

 

[300UGUY]

If we aim for the bottom we will surely hit it.

What we need is differentiation. Low skills jobs pay less, if we want high pay, need higher skills.

If USA is to rule the global economy is will not be with low level jobs...

We have a knowledge based economy, not a labor based economy.

Just my 2 cents, not about polyticks here, just how I see the workplace.

The problem as I see it, is that the skill level is constantly moving up, and the type of jobs being exported is always increasing. Imports keep getting higher tech all the time. A lot of engineering and design jobs are done overseas now. R&D is going there now. I don't this changing anytime soon. "American" companies are global now, and move operations between countries to optimize profits. American workers have been sold out by their employers. I worked in manufacturing for 37 years, but I would not advise any younger folks to make a career out of manufacturing. You are always just one executive decision from the street.

 

[lockhaven]

I worked for a company 12 years ago that was made up of ex NASA contractors. we had 3 PHD's and a masters was required I think to enter the door, until I arrived. The people were brilliant they could grasp a concept in a heart beat, but implementing it was a disaster. My boss was an Englishman had a masters in mechanical engineering, he told me that in England it is required to take an abbreviated 2 year apprenticeship in a tooling shop to get an engineering degree. i had worked at Black and Decker for 22 years prier in research and applied technology at least that was what it was called when i left. The best designers we had were those with shop experience. As shop supervisor I dealt directly with engineers and some of the college only people were a disaster. Good luck to your wife's nephew and tell him my well wishes for his career.

 

[Gator6x4]

We use to RUN the Global Economy. We need to get back to being a leader, and not part of a resource pool.

I am afraid a resource pool is about all we can muster at this time. When you have a 30-40 percent high school drop out rate in some communities hamburger flipping is about all that is available. Textile and furniture are gone to the land of ninety nine cents per hour. Schools have become warehouses, one teacher for 40-50 students. How many have tried to make a purchase when the computer or cash register was down and had to tell the clerk how much change you were owed?

How many have overheard a business associate, co-worker or friend telling how his/her children is being picked on because the teacher expects them to be able to read. How many heard the individual running for the nations highest office say, his goal is to have all children be able to read and write by the 4th or 5th grade. My parents thought I should be able to read and write before I entered the first grade.

 

[EE_Bota]

Amazing how an article, partial and poor quality, causes so many comments.

Some show a realistic understanding of the human condition.
Some show a realistic understanding of the economic condition.
Some show a need to rant against people's condition.
Some show compassion.
Some are calloused.
Some show a need to dictate how others should live.
Some use facts to support or illustrate their comments.
Some use fantasy and assumptions to justify their position.

Some don't know the difference between any of the above.

Are the differences because of nature or nurture?

An American Psychological Association task force in 1995 concluded:

The task force concluded that IQ scores do have high predictive validity for individual differences in school achievement. They confirm the predictive validity of IQ for adult occupational status, even when variables such as education and family background have been statistically controlled. They agree that individual (but specifically not population) differences in intelligence are substantially influenced by genetics.

So, when you got it, you got it. :cloud9: When you don't, you don't.:mur:

Doubtless, Smstonypoint, who holds the TBN chair in statistics and 'rithmetic, can explain the reasons for all the above far better than I.:confused3:
Perhaps the great man, himself, had a pithy commentary on it all.

Those of you who think it is justified to tax cigarettes so highly are the social engineers of the group, you guys need to get your fingers in a little deeper and straighten this guys life up for him. I'd lower those taxes to the same rate and anything else, and look at the overall tax rates the fellow faces, and if reasonable, I'd walk off and let him lead his life, content that I didn't go out of my way to lay a special screwing on him via taxation.

Many want to engineer society, but almost no one has enough skill.

 

[CBW1999]

Those of you who think it is justified to tax cigarettes so highly are the social engineers of the group, you guys need to get your fingers in a little deeper and straighten this guys life up for him. I'd lower those taxes to the same rate and anything else, and look at the overall tax rates the fellow faces, and if reasonable, I'd walk off and let him lead his life, content that I didn't go out of my way to lay a special screwing on him via taxation.

You make a very good point and, one I never thought about. It is a tax directed solely at the end user. If there wasn't such a high tax to begin with, their budget expense would be quite a lot less and conceivably lessen the chance they need public assistance. Makes you think a little more about the so called "soda" tax. Similar situation.......