Oh, poor me...poor me !!!

[texasjohn]

Amazing how an article, partial and poor quality, causes so many comments.

Some show a realistic understanding of the human condition.
Some show a realistic understanding of the economic condition.
Some show a need to rant against people's condition.
Some show compassion.
Some are calloused.
Some show a need to dictate how others should live.
Some use facts to support or illustrate their comments.
Some use fantasy and assumptions to justify their position.

Some don't know the difference between any of the above.

Are the differences because of nature or nurture?

An American Psychological Association task force in 1995 concluded:

The task force concluded that IQ scores do have high predictive validity for individual differences in school achievement. They confirm the predictive validity of IQ for adult occupational status, even when variables such as education and family background have been statistically controlled. They agree that individual (but specifically not population) differences in intelligence are substantially influenced by genetics.

So, when you got it, you got it. :cloud9: When you don't, you don't.:mur:

Doubtless, Smstonypoint, who holds the TBN chair in statistics and 'rithmetic, can explain the reasons for all the above far better than I.:confused3:
Perhaps the great man, himself, had a pithy commentary on it all.

 

[JDgreen227]

texasjohn, feel free to bash me as I didn't provide the entire article in perfect quality. Which of the "some" category do I fit in? Oh, likely the "Some who show a need to dictate how others should live".

 

[CBW1999]

Texasjohn- while you observations are true, these comments are written by the poor slobs who work and EARN their pay. So, a little jaded cynicism isn't out of line.

In regards to pensions and such- if people would save rather than spend every cent that comes in, they would have something for the future. That is the issue- it is all "here and now". I want I want.....

 

[joshuabardwell]

These threads always really upset me. One thing I always think is that we (the U.S., which is where most of the commenters are from) currently have some of the worst unemployment in our country's history. Unemployment is currently just under 8%, and the "real" unemployment rate (which includes unemployed people who have simply given up looking) is in the teens or around 20% in many states. Given this, it seems especially cruel to look at someone on some kind of public assistance, or someone who is camped out at Occupy and say, "Get a job, ya bum!" Many of these people would desperately love to get a job, and it is specifically the fact that they are having such a hard time getting a job that they are complaining about. And the fact that unemployment is so high and the economy is so bad means that those who do have a job are pressed even harder. I have a friend whose employer categorizes all their employees as independent contractors (1099, not W-2) so that they don't have to contribute to medicare and social security for them. The employees are being deprived of benefits that they are legally entitled to, but they don't dare complain because they're just glad to be working at all. Bottom line: prices are up, wages are down, and lots of people who want to work simply don't have anyone who wants to hire them. So have a little compassion for the unemployed, okay?

The other thing that upsets me is this idea that you can look at a person and know everything you need to know about them, and then start making all these judgments about them. You see a person in line for some kind of assistance and he's on a smart-phone and you say, "Jerk! Spend that money on your heating oil instead of getting public assistance!" Well, let's just think for a minute how much a smart phone costs? I can get a Samsung Galaxy Prevail from Boost Mobile (pre-paid cellular) for $100. That is approximately three times, or $66 more than the most basic phone they sell. How many months of heating oil will $66 buy a person? How much difference does it really make that this person decided to splurge on that phone? Do you even know that they bought the phone new? Maybe they bought it used off of eBay? Maybe their cousin gave it to them because their cousin is better off and bought a latest-and-greatest phone. Maybe they bought it a year ago when they had a good job. You don't know.

What you are doing, for the most part, when you screed against these people is yelling at a construct in your head that you have made up, not an actual person.

You look at the person in line for heating oil assistance and say, "That guy smokes? Why he could buy heating oil with that money!" Yeah. And he could buy cigarettes with that money too. Are you going to be the one to say how many cigarettes a day a person on public assistance is allowed to smoke? How expensive his shoes and clothes are allowed to be? How new of a car he is allowed to drive? All the time never bothering to ask why is it that this person is on public assistance? No, that question never needs to be asked, because the answer is always that the person is a lazy bum, full stop.

 

[logdog]

Are there any jobs a fellow could walk into straight out of high school, make enough money to support a spouse and 2.5 kids, and retire at 48-50 years old with a pension?

 

[MossflowerWoods]

Are there any jobs a fellow could walk into straight out of high school, make enough money to support a spouse and 2.5 kids, and retire at 48-50 years old with a pension?

The US Military for one...

Just a thought.

Here is my meager 2 cents...

I suspect the person in question provided the photo used, or the "reporter" took the photo at the "interview"

Regardless of which source, the picture is a HUGE part of the story.

Think about that for a second... I did...

Was that the best picture they could find?
Was/Is there an agenda in how this person has been photographed (i.e. is this a "point" someone is making)?

No matter what the reason, if I were in such a situation, I would ask for a picture to represent me in the BEST possible light (and the article BTW before I gave consent).

THAT is the nature of my thoughts on this.

Be well,
David

 

[IndyIan]

My $0.02 is that middle class is disappearing, due to the loss of well paid manufacturing jobs.
Does a high school grad deserve $50k/year? I don't know, but at one time before "free trade" with 3rd world it was common. Now the owners and executives of Caterpillar are getting stupid rich on the backs of the factory workers. In the 60's and 70's CEO's made a few times what the guy on the factory floor made, now its 100's of times more.

 

[smstonypoint]

Doubtless, Smstonypoint, who holds the TBN chair in statistics and 'rithmetic, can explain the reasons for all the above far better than I.:confused3:
Perhaps the great man, himself, had a pithy commentary on it all.

This is news to me --- I wasn't aware that I was so honored. I will update my Curriculum Vitae. I have offered my services (pro bono) as an expert witness in some upcoming litigation. This honor will lend great credibility to my testimony.

Named chairs provide additional remuneration. Would you please advise me as to the additional amount and when I can expect to receive same?

To remain above the fray in this thread, here are two quotes from the great man:

"No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable."

"The real tragedy of the poor is the poverty of their aspirations."

Steve

 

[MossflowerWoods]

This is news to me --- I wasn't aware that I was so honored. I will update my Curriculum Vitae. I have offered my services (pro bono) as an expert witness in some upcoming litigation. This honor will lend great credibility to my testimony.

Named chairs provide additional remuneration. Would you please advise me as to the additional amount and when I can expect to receive same?

To remain above the fray in this thread, here are two quotes from the great man:

"No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable."

"The real tragedy of the poor is the poverty of their aspirations."

Steve

Steve,

To obtain your chair, simply reach down to the one you are seated upon. Your renumeration is hiden in the box for the "Monopoly" game in your house. Please note that this particular currency has remained "UNCHANGED" in value for decades...

I also agree the 2nd quote is the one with the juice of truth most readily evident.

Be well sir.
David

 

[CBW1999]

Unemployment?!?!? I was just out in the town and there are several stores both commercially owned and private- that have "now hiring" signs out front. Work is work, earning is earning- I see lots of people who "cannot find a job" walk right by these places and never look twice. Just because someone cannot find a job that pays them what THEY feel the should be earning, does not mean there are not jobs they are able to obtain.

When I file my tax return, I have to account for all income AND be able to justify and support anything I wish to use as deductions to reduce my taxes due. There are penalties for not following all of those rules.

So, why shouldn't someone who wishes to obtain money via a taxpayer supported program- have to justify all of their expenses that put them in a position of not having enough money? Last I knew, smoking was a conscious decision, not something needed to survive.

 

[texasjohn]

I knew it! :thumbsup: I knew it!
You maintained your standard...with both pith and commentary! :cool2: And are doubly unafrayed to do so! :drink:
Am proud your pro bono will take the witness chair.... likely it will take notice of the economical yet weighty stature you will bring to it. And, while this is chair-ity work, "virtue is it's own reward" thus you can expect great rewards because I am sure you will testify with great virtue.

This is news to me --- I wasn't aware that I was so honored. I will update my Curriculum Vitae. I have offered my services (pro bono) as an expert witness in some upcoming litigation. This honor will lend great credibility to my testimony.

Named chairs provide additional remuneration. Would you please advise me as to the additional amount and when I can expect to receive same?

To remain above the fray in this thread, here are two quotes from the great man:

"No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable."

"The real tragedy of the poor is the poverty of their aspirations."

Steve

 

[joshuabardwell]

Unemployment?!?!? I was just out in the town and there are several stores both commercially owned and private- that have "now hiring" signs out front. Work is work, earning is earning- I see lots of people who "cannot find a job" walk right by these places and never look twice. Just because someone cannot find a job that pays them what THEY feel the should be earning, does not mean there are not jobs they are able to obtain.

Are you really going to try to say that today's historic unemployment rates are the result of people being too stuck up to take a job that they think is beneath them?

So, why shouldn't someone who wishes to obtain money via a taxpayer supported program- have to justify all of their expenses that put them in a position of not having enough money? Last I knew, smoking was a conscious decision, not something needed to survive.

Aha! So you agree that people should be given taxpayer-funded access the at least the basics of survival without having to justify that access? Awesome. I knew we could find some common ground. People need to justify their purchase of cigarettes or expensive cell phones, but they can have food and shelter and medical care on the taxpayer dime. I'd take that deal.

As long as we're at it, do you really need those tax deductions you took? I mean, you bought a tractor, but did you really need it? Or could you have paid that money to the government instead?

 

[tcreeley]

We have good Samaritans, caring people in this country- who give and we have -for lack of a better term, bastords (sp).
We could do with more of the first. The others could start today on their first leg of a swim to China. They won't be missed! Maybe they could teach the sharks a thing or two on the way.

 

[JDgreen227]

Let it be known I didn't start this thread to slam any particular group of working or non-working people...but it's a sad fact that today many unemployed will not take a job they feel is demeaning or beneath them. The quote made:

"The real tragedy of the poor is the poverty of their aspirations" can be interpreted in at least two ways:

1. They are poor because they have no ambition.

2. They have no ambition because they are poor.

My brother owns a sideline cleaning business, part time work for $8-10 an hour and he has a terrible problem getting anybody to work for his company. He says the problem is mainly that most of the hirees look at it as a dead-end job and demeaning because they have to push a vacuum cleaner and scrub toilets. Heck, I told him if he ever needs someone I will be happy to work for him but he tries to provide entry level jobs for people who want a foothold into the working world. Sad to say, there don't seem to be a whole lot of them who want the opportunity.

 

[swick1]

I have a few contacts that I hire from time to time. They are happy with $10/ hr cash but they don't stick around for long. Usually after payday they won't show up for a week or two. Once they have drank all of the money they are banging the door down for work. I feel sorry for them that they aren't in control of themselves and they are great workers but they are addicted and can't get out of the cycle. I used to get mad when they didn't show up but now I just overlap their schedules instead and whoever shows up first gets paid. The other guy gets sent home or I call him off. I wish we treated drug abusers and alcoholics like patients instead of felons. I don't mean to say they should continue down their road with no consequences but they should get help first then if they don't stay clean they become felons except where they committed a non-posession or non-distribution related crime. Either way our lack of morals in society has ruined many lives.

 

[texasjohn]

I appreciate the several posters who show understanding and empathy Well said.

 

[buck12]

I think a lot of hard working American's sympathy has gone out the Window when the government started providing more than the basics for those who do not work. I don't think there are many on TBN who want others to go hungry or to be cold in the winter. But when our tax dollars are used to pay for cell phones, high speed Internet etc which are not essentials people begin to have enough. One of the other points being made is that if someone can afford extras (smokes, tattoos, nose pierced ok I added a couple from my list) then they should not take the money other people have earned.

 

[riptides]

I think a lot of hard working American's sympathy went out the door when fellow co-workers showed up with lists of demands when they have not proved anything yet. Entitlement? Big-head syndrome?

It's like the sports business these days, sign a multi-mega-million dollar contract, then try and get out of it, because someone else got more.

Prove your worth, work, and honor your commitments. If YOUR lucky these days, MAYBE a company will treat you right, pension, benefits, etc.

In the end, remember it is business and no one owes you a d*** thing.

 

[tcreeley]

Let it be known I didn't start this thread to slam any particular group of working or non-working people...but it's a sad fact that today many unemployed will not take a job they feel is demeaning or beneath them. The quote made:

"The real tragedy of the poor is the poverty of their aspirations" can be interpreted in at least two ways:

1. They are poor because they have no ambition.

2. They have no ambition because they are poor.

My brother owns a sideline cleaning business, part time work for $8-10 an hour and he has a terrible problem getting anybody to work for his company. He says the problem is mainly that most of the hirees look at it as a dead-end job and demeaning because they have to push a vacuum cleaner and scrub toilets. Heck, I told him if he ever needs someone I will be happy to work for him but he tries to provide entry level jobs for people who want a foothold into the working world. Sad to say, there don't seem to be a whole lot of them who want the opportunity.

That is a simplification. The people who used to work on our farm for a dollar an hour were dependable, willing to work, and penniless. We gave them a place to live. Many of them did not own a vehicle- couldn't afford it. None had gotten past the 8th grade. One couple who left us did so to return to a tarpaper shack in the woods. No electricity, no running water. They had goals and limited means. They also had a year old baby. I am not going to dump on them because they were poor. They thought we were rich. The kids I went to school with thought I was poor as all get out. I was compared to them. Should I have been dumped on for lack of ambition.
It is important to see the person despite their situation. It is easy to rush to judgement and we have to resist that. In my experience there are deadbeats running through all levels of society.
I blame outsourcing and an unwillingness to protect our US industries with tariffs. The good jobs left and the prices continue to climb. The 1 % sees their net worth climb, everybody else sees their situation worsen. I've worked hard all of my life, but I don't begrudge others their sense of hopelessness given this economy. -Not much there to look forward to- even with working 2 jobs.
Romney and his 47%....how many people as he layed off? How much suffering has he contributed to the world?
People are just human, and need to be treated with respect.