Dealing with Mr. Monkeywrench--need advice

[kenmac]

Thank you, but although I have such a tool, it did not register one of the 135 DTC's listed in my manual...meaning the car had to go to a repair facility.

Just interested. What scan tool do you have ? The 1 I have (innova) has some of the codes in the manual.The ones that are not in the manua,l I go to their website for the code.I haven't had a code that they didn't have listed on their site.

 

[Jimbrown]

My experience is just the oposite of what I see here. If I took mine back to the dealer I have no doubt they would fix it at no charge or minimum for perhaps fluids that might have to be replaced.

They replaced two complete rearends on an Avalance that I had after it was out of warranty.

Both the GM and Ford dealers are quite understanding and go out of their way to fix things right.

The Dodge/jeep dealer is not quite as good.

But I never go in ranting and screaming or making threats. I just ask in a reasonable manner for things to fixed in a reasonable amount of time.

I guess it helps that have been buying from the same two dealers for 30 years.

 

[Diamondpilot]

As said it all comes down to the dealer.

Chris

 

[sparc]

Basically what I am wondering is just how I am going to know it's not the parts they just replaced UNLESS I am standing right there watching the mechanic work, which is not permitted. So easy for them to tell me "well it's not what we just fixed" when it actually is. GRRR....I hate modern cars, all the stuff crammed into the smallest possible space and you need a $10 grand machine to diagnose any problem. Which is why I love my tractor !!

take some photos now before you take it in and have the date and time stamp turned on so you have proof of when the photo was taken. Most cell phones get their date and time setting from the network so they should be accurate to the minute, use a cellphone camera.

 

[timswi]

I was a service advisor and a service manager in a few car dealerships and am now a customer and I can honestly say that every dealer I've dealt with around here has gone out of their way to make it right..Give them a chance...Aside from common perception, the chain outfits are far more likely to try to rip you off and back out of a repair than a dealer ever would be...i used to keep parts for the chains only...Stuff we NEVER had to replace unless the car was in a massive wreck..The chains bought those items daily.

As others have said, give them a chance.

 

[sld]

I have several dealers around me. On the very rare occasion I have them do anything I go to the one several miles outside of town. They aren't picky in the shop and I stand next to my vehicle at all times, usually talking to the mechanic while he works.

I refuse to let a dealer take my vehicle out of sight for any work.

 

[podagrower]

I'll back deerhunter on this. My wife had the plugs and wires replaced on her Z28, (about $800 because they are inside the motor) and 5,000 miles later, there is a misfire. The plugs and wires were done by the dealership, but we took it to our regular mechanic for the misfire. He traced it down to a bad wire, and said one of the recent connections was done incorrectly...at this point, the car is undrivable, we call the dealership, who sent their service manager to the independent shop, looked at the problem, said "yep, we messed up", and paid our mechanic to fix it. I was floored.

 

[deerehunter/operator]

Thanks, and that is similar to how we run our shop. If we mess up, we make it right. We have always ran it this way and for that reason our service department is jam packed even when the other shops are slow. We keep our customers by being honest and fair. We dont have customers that are scared to bring their vehicles to us because we are a dealership. They bring them to us because word of mouth has informed them that we dont rip people off and we do good work. Every independent shop and even the local Chrysler dealer in town have us do work for them that they sometimes cant figure out. Trying to tell a guy with a 2004 Saturn that we didnt mess up if we really did wouldnt really be worth the bad publicity in the long run. We would just make it right if it was our mistake. I think his 95% statistic might be slightly skewed because Im pretty sure we arent the only shop that works this way.

 

[Bird]

I don't think my situation is all that unusual, but I have Fords and all the service except tires, in the last 10 years, has been done by the two Ford dealers in the area. The first dealer uses sales tactics that I don't like and may try to sell you things you don't need. But the work they did was always good. The second dealer, and the one I use all the time now, does it all right. The dealership has been here for more than 50 years, no pressure sales tactics in either the vehicle sales or service department, so I don't worry about my vehicles being out of my sight there. I understand that mechanics, just as any human, can make mistakes, but I'm confident that if they do, they'll correct it.

 

[JDgreen227]

Tell you guys just why I am so skeptical of repair shop ripoffs, one example: My cousin's daughter had a GM car that always ran hot, she took it to a shop and they told her the water pump was bad and the radiator needed replacing...big bucks. I took a look at it and determined the problem was simply air in the cooling system and all that was needed was to keep bleeding air from the system and replacing the air with coolant. Both water pump and radiator went several more years before she sold the car. And here is a "what if" example...

My 2004 Lesabre was just out of warranty and my wife told me the heater fan was making a terrible noise, she called dealership and they told her the heater fan needed replacing. Well, I took a plastic cover off the firewall area and found this HUGE dry oak leaf stuck in the heater fan blower wheel...how it got there in one piece I have no idea. Removing the leaf cured the issue. Now, had we taken the car to a shop I bet 9 out of 10 places would have removed the leaf and then billed us for replacing the heater fan. There are simply too many ways shops can screw over the customers and get away with it to make me trust them.

 

[deerehunter/operator]

If someone would have called me about a blower motor noise (wants it diagnosed over the phone without actually bringing the car in) then yes there are a couple different things that could cause the noise and it sounds like they gave you one of the possibilities (bad bearing in blower motor). Did you take the vehicle in to have it diagnosed so they could find the leaf? So how can you assume that they would have replaced the blower motor without just removing the leaf. You obviously believe that "9 out of 10" places are out to get you and it sounds like all of your examples are WHAT IFS and THEY PROBABLY WOULD HAVES. Its pretty clear that you have it set in your mind that you are always going to get taken so why did you post in here with a title ending in "Need Advice"? Lots of folks have said the same thing I did....give them a chance to correct the problem. They cant do further work without first giving you an estimate. Everyone on this site can give you examples of times that someone was ripped off by a car dealership, restaurant, phone company, etc. That doesnt mean everyone out there is like that.

 

[LD1]

Everyone on this site can give you examples of times that someone was ripped off by a car dealership, restaurant, phone company, etc. That doesnt mean everyone out there is like that.

Along those same lines, I am sure there are thousands of members here that can give examples of times when they WERENT ripped off, and had excellent service. Its just the nature of the beast that people only spread the word when the word is a bad one.

 

[deerehunter/operator]

exactly. We have a bulletin board by our parts department where we hang up cards we receive in the mail from folks saying thanks for the great service. It really feels good to hear that stuff once in a while and not just the "you guys changed my oil and now my left rear tire has a nail in it....what did you guys do to my car"

 

[Bird]

exactly. We have a bulletin board by our parts department where we hang up cards we receive in the mail from folks saying thanks for the great service. It really feels good to hear that stuff once in a while and not just the "you guys changed my oil and now my left rear tire has a nail in it....what did you guys do to my car"

:laughing::laughing: Many years ago, about 1974 or 75, I served on a 6 person jury in county court. A couple of young fellows had a little trucking business with some old, worn out trucks and they had refused to pay a mechanic's bill claiming he didn't do the work right. So the mechanic sued. Those young fellows claims were just about as valid as your comments above.:laughing: It really was incredible. Things like the mechanic fixed a transmission, then a month later in another state, the brakes had to be repaired. When the jury retired to "deliberate" they promptly elected me as jury foreman, I read the charge from the judge, as he had instructed, and asked who wanted to start. One guy said those guys just need to pay their bills, everyone else agreed. I asked again if anyone wanted to discuss any of it; they didn't and I think we told the baliff we had reached a verdict so quick that we surprised the judge and everyone else.:laughing:

 

[crazyal]

Unless it's warranty work I do it myself. Almost everything you need to do to a car or truck can be found on the internet. I use my smart phone for a scan tool, makes it real easy because once the code comes up it asks if I want to search the internet to identify it. The only issues are sub computers like the antilock brakes/ traction control, air bag, transmission, etc. Mfgs try to keep that information to themselves.

 

[JDgreen227]

I have one issue with a local GM dealer that REALLY soured me on the obscene prices they charge for work. When our 2004 Lesabre was new, my wife would take it to the selling dealership for oil changes....after the first four or five times, I filed away the invoices and upon looking at them I realized the dealership was charging her for 5 quarts of oil, even though the 3.8 V6 had a recommended oil and filter change capacity of 4.5 quarts. They were billing her for TEN UNITS per change, a unit being a half quart. I took the invoices and went to the dealership and inquired: "Can you tell me if you are overcharging for a half quart of oil not put in the engine, or are you overfilling it by a half quart?" THEY WOULD NOT GIVE ME A STRAIGHT ANSWER. The service manager left and came back with a check in the amount of the 4 or 5 excess half quarts of oil, and apologized and also gave me a coupon good for a free oil and filter change....I gave the coupon to someone else because I had NO intention of ever returning there...any dealership that is scamming customers in little ways like that will most certainly scam them in other ways. I wonder sometimes just how many "half-quarts" they scammed customers out of over the years.

 

[Bird]

I have one issue with a local GM dealer that REALLY soured me on the obscene prices they charge for work. When our 2004 Lesabre was new, my wife would take it to the selling dealership for oil changes....after the first four or five times, I filed away the invoices and upon looking at them I realized the dealership was charging her for 5 quarts of oil, even though the 3.8 V6 had a recommended oil and filter change capacity of 4.5 quarts. They were billing her for TEN UNITS per change, a unit being a half quart. I took the invoices and went to the dealership and inquired: "Can you tell me if you are overcharging for a half quart of oil not put in the engine, or are you overfilling it by a half quart?" THEY WOULD NOT GIVE ME A STRAIGHT ANSWER. The service manager left and came back with a check in the amount of the 4 or 5 excess half quarts of oil, and apologized and also gave me a coupon good for a free oil and filter change....I gave the coupon to someone else because I had NO intention of ever returning there...any dealership that is scamming customers in little ways like that will most certainly scam them in other ways. I wonder sometimes just how many "half-quarts" they scammed customers out of over the years.

So when they tried to make it right and satisfy you, you got mad, and said you'd never go back there? Doesn't make sense to me, but maybe to others.

 

[JDgreen227]

So when they tried to make it right and satisfy you, you got mad, and said you'd never go back there? Doesn't make sense to me, but maybe to others.

Bird....why were they scamming me in the first place? They got caught and no amount of apologies can make it right. I told several other people who own a GM car with the same engine to check their oil change invoices....same overcharge by the same dealership. GM has sold millions of those engines....I have a hard time understanding why anybody in the auto service business cannot read and understand the factory recommendations. Want to hear about the time I blew the whistle on a major GM dealership that was charging a document preparation fee on GM employee purchases although the rules of the GM employee purchase plan clealy stated document prep fees could not be charged on GM employee purchases? Several people at the dealership got fired for that.

 

[Bird]

Bird....why were they scamming me in the first place? They got caught and no amount of apologies can make it right. I told several other people who own a GM car with the same engine to check their oil change invoices....same overcharge by the same dealership. GM has sold millions of those engines....I have a hard time understanding why anybody in the auto service business cannot read and understand the factory recommendations. Want to hear about the time I blew the whistle on a major GM dealership that was charging a document preparation fee on GM employee purchases although the rules of the GM employee purchase plan clealy stated document prep fees could not be charged on GM employee purchases? Several people at the dealership got fired for that.

Scamming you, or an honest mistake. Many years ago, cars held a certain number of "quarts"; no partial or half quarts. Now-a-days maybe they all use bulk oil and pump our some predetermined amount instead of opening a number of cans. I don't know what happened. It just sounded to me as if they tried to make it right with you. If I know I'm not going back to a place, I guess I can understand telling them so, though I probably wouldn't; I'd probably just go on. But you said you went there to talk to them. They gave you a check and a coupon for a free oil change. What could they have done to make it right for you? And satisfy you? Or what do you think they should have done?

I think (hope?) we all know that there are some number of dishonest people in every occupation/profession in the world. I believe them to be in the minority, while some assume they're the majority. Sure hope I've right instead of those who look for crooks everywhere.:laughing:

Incidentally, after one oil change on my Ford Ranger, I noticed on the dipstick it was halfway between the add and full lines and I told the service writer. A guy came from the back with a quart of oil and filled it to the full mark. And when I sent an e-mail to their manager later, they gave me a free oil change. But a service writer told me that Ford uses the same dipstick for some different engines and for my engine, if they put in the amount of oil the manual calls for, it'll be in the middle on the dipstick. So, yep, it's been that way since, but I don't have to add oil between changes, so I haven't complained. And I still use that dealer.

 

[Peacock]

Tell you guys just why I am so skeptical of repair shop ripoffs, one example: My cousin's daughter had a GM car that always ran hot, she took it to a shop and they told her the water pump was bad and the radiator needed replacing...big bucks. I took a look at it and determined the problem was simply air in the cooling system and all that was needed was to keep bleeding air from the system and replacing the air with coolant. Both water pump and radiator went several more years before she sold the car. And here is a "what if" example...

My 2004 Lesabre was just out of warranty and my wife told me the heater fan was making a terrible noise, she called dealership and they told her the heater fan needed replacing. Well, I took a plastic cover off the firewall area and found this HUGE dry oak leaf stuck in the heater fan blower wheel...how it got there in one piece I have no idea. Removing the leaf cured the issue. Now, had we taken the car to a shop I bet 9 out of 10 places would have removed the leaf and then billed us for replacing the heater fan. There are simply too many ways shops can screw over the customers and get away with it to make me trust them.

I can just about guarantee you that only a very small number of individuals would pull such a stunt.

As a dealer tech of 12 yrs I'm a little bit offended by how some people think most dealerships are run. I can honestly say most dealer techs really do try to do the right thing and take great pride in the fact that they are generally the best in the business.