Tractor Sizing Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact?

/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #41  
Go the Zero Turn. I cut many acres and unless I'm climbing very steep land I use my Ferris 2000 zero turn. It cuts the time down to a third compared to either of my tractors. On a plot that small with trees and such you will drive yourself nuts on a tractor. IMO
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact?
  • Thread Starter
#42  
I agree with comments about the loader, for raw digging, a 1000 series cut will be better. if your work
load for the front loader is mostly moving loose materials, mulch/firewood etc, then the 700 series loader would be fine.

A couple thoughts, why are you looking at 4wd machines where you have no snow removal? are there steep
hills?

Thanks for your comments - I appreciate you weighing in. Snow removal would be very rare where I live, so that's probably not a good reason for 4wd. No steep hills at my new house, either. But, from watching YouTube videos of guys with X700 and loaders, it looks like there's a lot of wheel spin happening even with 4wd.

I really want a diesel engine for longevity and fuel efficiency, which is a point for the bigger / more expensive machines.

I sure wish I could see and drive an X700. May have to broaden my search.

OTOH, it don't think I'd be disappointed with the 1026. Seems like a great tractor.
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #43  
Hi there,
I am moving my family to a house on a 1.5 acre lot soon, and I'm in the market for a small tractor or mower for the first time. The new lawn is mostly weeds right now, but there are lots of small trees and shrubs planted around the perimeter of the property. Over the next several years, I hope to get the place looking like a park!
First off, congratulations on the new house. It sounds like you are very much looking forward to making some landscape improvements.

I was in a VERY similar situation 3 years ago -- almost 2 acres, residential area, and landscape-wise the prior (elderly) owners had "let things go" for about 10 years. So in my case I could walk just about anywhere on the property, swing a yardstick around, and hit something that could be improved.

I too vacillated between a landscaping service, a ZTR, a lawn tractor, and a small utility tractor. From strictly a financial standpoint, the landscaping service had the highest cost -- but would require the least of my time. So there is a tradeoff, as all of the other options are "DIY" and require some seat time. This is an important factor for some folks, who may value their time at work, or with their spouse, or with the kids, or at the beach, or at the range, etc much higher than sitting on a machine going in circles.

In the end I decided that in 4 years I could either have a shoebox full of reciepts from the landscape company or I could purchase something outright and hopefully win on the depreciation/maintenance economics. I am not the type to make a purchase on a whim and then part with things quickly, so whatever I invested in I would be with for the long haul. And, I would want year-round use of the machine, so versatility was a key factor to me.

First and foremost, I think I need a really good mower.
I also want a wagon for hauling firewood and shrubs around the yard
I could get a loader, a spreader, and a sprayer.
Those things would all be handy to have as I create my "park".
I could dig trenches for my sprinkler system, clear out a parking pad and a garden area, move big rocks around for building steps and walkways, dig up and replant shrubs
These are the exact factors that I considered, and in addition I had one more -- clearing snow.

In my analysis I considered a ZTR a "purpose built" tool -- that is, if I only wanted to mow grass it was clearly the fastest way to do it. But, any additional tasks would be limited by the limited towing/spraying/etc options available to a ZTR platform. This seemed to me to be a significant tradeoff, at least for my anticipated needs. Of course, for a professional landscape guy who cuts a square mile of grass per week, a speedy, highly-maneuverable ZTR makes perfect sense. But for my acre and change of grassed area, I did not think the time-vs-versatility tradeoff tilted the scales to the ZTR. Finally, the ZTR was going nowhere from late November to March --for that timespan it is a dead asset.

The lawn tractor approach similarly had limitations. It would have none of the time-saving advantages of the ZTR, and none of the better capabilities of a bigger utility tractor, and finally very few lawn tractors have 4WD which (combined with the light weight) pretty much negated any type of usefulness in the snow. Moreover, typical lawn tractors have limited lifespans; the last thing I wanted to do was purchase a tractor and throw it away in 5-7 years because the engine or transmission or deck has reached it's designed-in end.

This process of elimination is what led me to look at SCUTs. With one I would get the versatility, lifespan, and year-round utility I was looking for. Would it cut as fast as a ZTR? No. But I could do a lot more with it than a ZTR, and that would in the end save me time, money, and/or aggravation (e.g. dealing with rentals etc).

So at this point, I really don't know what I want. What to do, Internet? What to do?
Get a subcompact utility tractor. How's that for decisiveness?

Wrooster

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/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #44  
Nice :)
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #45  
wrooster, very nice work:thumbsup:
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact?
  • Thread Starter
#46  
Wrooster,

You absolutely win the gold medal for compelling responses. Very nicely done - thank you!

And your yard is a LOT like what I have in mind for my place someday. I love what you've done. I bet you get a lot of satisfaction out of seeing the results of your labor. Love, love, love it!

Thanks!

Matt
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #47  
Very nice Wrooster. I don't think you could have done all that with a ZTR. Why do I see a flagstone walk leading to the Barbecue or outdoor fireplace?
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #49  
Now THAT is a cool idea! Does JD give factory tours? Is the X700 made in the Georgia plant?

The X700 Series tractors are made at the Horicon, Wisconsin factory.
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #50  
And your yard is a LOT like what I have in mind for my place someday. I love what you've done. I bet you get a lot of satisfaction out of seeing the results of your labor. Love, love, love it! Thanks!
Matt,
Good luck with your decision and new home. Looking back, almost everything I have done landscaping-wise has been with the assistance of my tractor. Nearly every piece of fieldstone and bluestone, and every yard of gravel and mulch that you see in my pictures above was moved by my SCUT. In the beginning, you will think that the FEL is the most expensive wheelbarrow ever and a tractor with a TPH/PTO as a luxury -- but eventually you will come to learn of the utility and the ease at which you can make projects happen. Of course my wife thinks that it is all a rouse to get more seat time... ;)

By the way, returning to the economics subject on three fronts...

1) Monthly, my "0% interest for 4 years" payments are currently costing me less than the landscaping services that quoted me on annual cut-n-blow. So that is a nice feeling, although as an "owner-operator" I have to do my own PM (oil/grease/etc) and servicing. But I am a propeller-headed engineer and I don't mind that kind of stuff.

2) Some operations with a SCUT and FEL will naturally take longer -- sometimes a lot longer -- than if you used, for example, a rented skid-steer. A competent operator in a skid-steer with a large bucket will outpace a competent operator on a SCUT w/ FEL ten times over, just like a mini-Ex will outdig a backhoe five times over. So, you have to find the right balance. Above, you noted that you would like to trench in sprinkler pipe. Don't use a SCUT for this. Rent a vibratory plow -- such as a smaller model from Ditch-Witch -- that makes a knife-edge slit in the ground while pulling black poly pipe. Afterward you irrigate the area you passed over and seven days later you'll never even know you were there. I installed sprinklers in my youth and know what I speak of here -- you are not going to win against a Ditch-witch pull plow. There is a reason the pros use one.

If you trench with a SCUT backhoe, the cleanup/reseeding operation is far more extensive. The money you spent on the SCUT-attached backhoe and "saved" on the rental will be hugely disproportionate. Summary: there will be times when spending $250 for a day's rental of the right tool will be far, far better than anything you can do with the wrong tool -- no matter how expensive the wrong tool is.

3) Some of your "savings" will be lost through acquisitions. Let me explain: a TPH without anything attached just sits there, mocking you: "feed me, feed me". Gradually you will begin scouring Craiglist for TPH attachments. It will become an obsession, you'll end up using SearchTempest or similar to find ALL the nearby deals. A PTO-driven generator, "like new, includes shaft", good price, 100 miles away? A TPH aerator, "used once, father passed away, will sell for cheap", 85 miles away?

"Honey, get in the truck -- we are taking a drive to the next state to talk to a guy we don't know about an attachment for the tractor that I probably don't need -- but it could be fun... " :thumbsup:

Wrooster



ETA example ditch witch vib plow:
 
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/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #51  
Hi there - good luck with house & tractor!
I run an X540 w/54" mulch deck for grounds maintenance here in the UK.
I've been looking at the X7** series too - as I'd like to be able to run a flail mower and have more grunt.
I tried a x749 last week with a 48" rear discharge deck on a clients site...

I still have my X540!!
The 749 was certainly a lovely machine but the 540 tackles everything the 749 did, nearly quite as well! And with an £8k diff to pay after P/X, I couldn't justify it.
For me, I'll be towing a donkey engine flail for long stuff, and my usual deck for a nice finish.

No doubt I'll keep looking at bigger tractors though!!
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #52  
Matt,

Just wondering what your latest thoughts were on the subject now that you have had some feedback.
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact?
  • Thread Starter
#53  
Just wondering what your latest thoughts were on the subject now that you have had some feedback.

Thanks for asking. I think the subcompact is the way to go. I like the 1026R with a loader and a 60" 7-Iron mower deck. Now debating whether to order it right after move-in or to wait until I've had a chance to build the shed that it will be stored in. Another major expense to consider.

I spent the weekend building a 20' gravel path with stepping stones at my current house (which we plan to rent out). I did it all by hand and spent a lot of time digging it out and building up a new crushed-stone base because it is an area prone to be wet and muddy. In fact, a heavy rain in the middle of the project filled my pit with water, so that made it more, er, fun. The space was too tight and the project was too small for a tractor to add much benefit, but a loader will be a huge time-saver with the larger projects I have planned at the new house.

Moving at the end of the month. Tractor or not, I'm excited about the future!

Thanks for checking in. And a big thank you to everyone for all the feedback and advice.

Matt
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #54  
I had thought only small equipment powered by Lister-petter air cooled diesels was marketed and used in the British Iles.
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #55  
buickanddeere said:
I had thought only small equipment powered by Lister-petter air cooled diesels was marketed and used in the British Iles.

Definitely not! Lots of small machines use Kubota 950 engines (think that's the right one!).
Stacks of small machinery used here, but generally, it seems (from this forum), that we use 360 excavators more, and larger tractors?
Most large gardens (yards) here rarely exceed one/two acres!
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #56  
Well, what did you get? :)

Wrooster
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact?
  • Thread Starter
#57  
Oh Wrooster, you may be sorry you asked!

We got moved in at the new place and, sure enough, the grass kept growing. We hadn't been here a week and the lawn needed mowing. I wanted to buy the 1026R, but I really don't have a place to put it, yet. I can't leave a $15K machine sitting out in the weather. But it would be silly to move a car out of the garage to make room for a tractor, right? So, short term, we paid somebody to mow the lawn once.

Since my last post on this topic, I've continued to read everything I can get my hands on, and I found some posts on another forum by a couple different folks that had mowed with both X700s and 1026Rs. In both cases, they said the X700 is a much better mower, both in terms of usability and quality of cut. It wasn't long before I found myself back on the fence about what to get.

Upon expressing my quandary to my dad last month, he said that he had a Husqvarna GT2254 riding mower that he bought a few years ago that wasn't strong enough to handle his rough mountainside property. It had started falling apart and he had spent some time trying to repair it, but he got frustrated with it, threw a tarp over it, and let it sit for about 18 months. He suggested that I borrow it and get it fixed, and he'd "probably forget where he left it". It's got a 54" deck, so I drove up to NC and picked it up that night. I figured that would get me through the winter before I had to make any big decisions, at least. That weekend, I sent the Husky to the shop for a battery, spindle, and a couple deck wheels to replace the ones that had gone missing. The shop replaced the spark plug, greased all the appropriate points, and generally got it running again. $275 spent. But, I only got one mow out of it before it started making a horrendous noise when the blades were engaged, so I stopped using it. I thought I might have bent the deck when I loaded it on my dad's pickup truck, since most of the tractor's weight was on the deck, which partially straddled the wheel wells of the truck. So I found a closer shop that would do pickup/delivery, and had them come get it for a second repair.

In the meantime, the grass kept growing, so I pulled out the only mower I own. A little Honda push mower with a broken transmission (all push, no self-propel). It took me almost 3 hours to mow the front and side yards (but they looked great!). Then a friend down the street had mercy on me and let me borrow his Kubota BXsomething diesel with a 60" deck for the back yard. I think I finished the back yard in about 20 minutes. SO MUCH FASTER than a 24" manual push mower!

I got the Husqvarna back from the shop yesterday. They had replaced another spindle, a pulley mandrel, and the belt. Another $215 spent. Unfortunately, they did not fix the problem. By the time I got the front lawn mowed last night, the mower deck was making so much noise that my ears were ringing for an hour afterwards. I called the shop and they came back to get it this morning. I'm supposed to have it back again tomorrow. We'll see what happens with that. I'm approaching $500 in repairs for the free mower that's probably not worth more than about $500. So, I'm concerned that I may still have to buy a tractor sooner rather than later.

Lots of lessons learned, however:

1. Turning radius is a big deal on a riding mower. Interestingly, my friend's big Kubota with the 60" deck has a tighter turning radius than the Husqvarna with the 54" deck. More importantly, according to the JD website, the X700 has a ~25" turning radius and the 1026R has a ~7.2 FOOT turning radius. That is a HUGE win for the X700 in my book.
2. I probably don't really need 4WD. My yard is flat enough that I can mow with a manual push mower. And the Husqvarna and Kubota both have no problem with the biggest "hills" I can find in my yard. They just go right up 'em without even slowing down.
3. My yard is bumpier than it looks. I'll need to smooth it out somehow to really be able to mow as fast as I'd like.
4. I can mow with a push mower in a pinch.
5. I think I like mowing. Weird. I never used to.
6. I am not impressed with Husqvarna riding mower at all. Yes, the one I have hasn't had the best care, but it doesn't seem like it's built very well, either. The engine starts and runs nicely, though. My issue is the deck.
7. Traveling back and forth to the shop and waiting for them to actually work on the tractor is a big inconvenience. Better buy something reliable so I don't have to do that very often.
8. While I'd really like to have a FEL for all the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread, it probably won't get used very often. And I'll need more space to store it.
9. I really need a shed with a minimum 70" wide door. That way I can fit whatever deck I want to. The door should probably be high enough to accommodate a ROPS, too. You know, just in case.

In summary, to answer your question, I got a used Husqvarna GT2254 riding mower. Once I get it fixed, it will probably do the job. But, I plan to replace it just as soon as I can. I sure would like to have an X748!

Matt
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #58  
Matt,

A great post, but I'd like to address one point:

More importantly, according to the JD website, the X700 has a ~25" turning radius and the 1026R has a ~7.2 FOOT turning radius. That is a HUGE win for the X700 in my book.

Don't worry so much about the published numbers for turning radius, look for what Deere calls the "UNCUT DIAMETER". The turning radius is just how sharply the steering can turn the tractor but it does not completely explain how much grass the deck leaves uncut. The size of the deck makes a difference, even on the same tractor (for example - on the X700 the 48" deck actually has a LARGER uncut diameter than the 62" deck since the 62" deck sticks out farther on the left side of the tractor). And of course a 4WS tractor will have a smaller uncut diameter, and a ZTR will have a zero uncut diameter.

I hope that explanation made some sense ...
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #59  
sklunk,
I agree that uncut radius is an important consideration but so is turning radius. I have an x749 aws with a 48" deck to fit between trees and obstacles and it will leave about a 12"uncut radius. Using the same mower with a 62" deck yields a 6" uncut radius which would be nice but the deck won't fit all the places I need to go.


From a manueverability stand point the difference between a 2' radius and a 7' radius is very obvious in actual use, the x700 series will out manuever the 1026R. There are pluses and minuses to each model so a buyer has to decide what is most important in their own case.
 
/ Lawn Tractor, Zero Turn, or Sub-compact? #60  
sklunk,
I agree that uncut radius is an important consideration but so is turning radius. I have an x749 aws with a 48" deck to fit between trees and obstacles and it will leave about a 12"uncut radius. Using the same mower with a 62" deck yields a 6" uncut radius which would be nice but the deck won't fit all the places I need to go.


From a manueverability stand point the difference between a 2' radius and a 7' radius is very obvious in actual use, the x700 series will out manuever the 1026R. There are pluses and minuses to each model so a buyer has to decide what is most important in their own case.

If I remember right.... the x748 has an uncut circle of 2' NOT a 2' turning radius. The x748 will no doubt out manuever the 1026R, but I think the 2' vs 7' numbers are not "apples to apples".
 

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