Traction Logging with industrials

[jeff9366]

Now I have tractor envy. I would like to have a Kubota MX5100...but I do not know why, as the B3300SU already meets my needs, but still I would like to have your MX5100. Those telescopic lower links must be a help "hitchin' up" implements....and every once-in-a-while I wish I had more lift capacity with the FEL. However, all my implements are 60" wide for the B3300SU so I guess I should just BE HAPPY as I am.

 

[arrow]

Here's a couple of pics of mine in action.

This is yet another variable. Your tree hitch is cantilevered out to a fair degree allowing a good amount of additional "ballast" for your tractor. Its helping to provide traction as a result. This is good as it is clearing up some scenarios for me. The industrials will certainly lend stability while in the woods and as I have turned my present tractor upside down twice, this can be a little relevant for me. Secondly, if I need more traction, I'll get chains but this way I'll also be able to drive on the grass more than I can now. I'll test the bare R4's in the snow this year and see how they do. I know they will not compare to the ags in this regard but we'll see exactly how much of a problem they are in snow. With a set up such as yours, I think they'll be less of a problem.

 

[arrow]

I can't answer your question completely but I can give you an example. I have always had ags on my older tractors and I have used them to plow, disc, mow, till, and yes log for fire wood, with very little difficulity and the tractors are two wheel drive. Of course I have been stuck sometimes really stuck in mud and especially when logging and the ruts get real deep. My new tractor has industrials and it is 4WD, I have even had problems while tilling and mowing where the rear tires start spinning if I get to deep or the mower hangs up just sightly When it's in 4WD there isn't any problem but my point is that there is a vast difference in traction between the two types. Don't get me wrong in 4WD and the industrials I can go most places, the industrials are also much much better on my lawn for sure. I just can't imagion how much traction I would have with the ags and 4WD!
Oh well I hope that helps some.

What is your new tractor and are your tires loaded?

 

[Peacock]

This is yet another variable. Your tree hitch is cantilevered out to a fair degree allowing a good amount of additional "ballast" for your tractor. Its helping to provide traction as a result. This is good as it is clearing up some scenarios for me. The industrials will certainly lend stability while in the woods and as I have turned my present tractor upside down twice, this can be a little relevant for me. Secondly, if I need more traction, I'll get chains but this way I'll also be able to drive on the grass more than I can now. I'll test the bare R4's in the snow this year and see how they do. I know they will not compare to the ags in this regard but we'll see exactly how much of a problem they are in snow. With a set up such as yours, I think they'll be less of a problem.

That is exactly right. Raising the hitch higher adds quite a bit of weight to the rear wheels. Just have to be mindful of ground conditions and the stress put on the top link.

I can pull a 3-4k log on flat ground in 6th gear. Or at idle in low gear if need be in tight trails....did I mention I love, love, love gear drive?

 

[Guesseral]

What is your new tractor and are your tires loaded?

No my tires are not loaded, and I could do anything that has been stated or shown with it the way it is expecially with all of that dry ground to work on. I was just trying to give you a comparison to the two different type of tires and the traction between then I have had both and I thought it may help. I didn't know this would turn into a my tractor comparison!

 

[Carl_NH]

Arrow,

My B21 non loaded tires is 3900Lbs with R4s and I use it in the winter w/o the BH but with a rear blade so the weight is more like 3200Lbs with rear blade. Driveway is 300' slight grade and R4 have been fine except for ice and I think R1s would have same issue.

I also do wood fetching and tree hauling sometimes with the BH on too. Rarely have I wished for more traction. I grew up with R1s and 2WD on all the machines for farm work and can say they were great.

Pros for R1s in the woods in snow are better traction, but R4s for the toughness are better if you have rocks and ledge and stumps to navigate in the woods. R4s are a bit wider and on lawn areas wont tear it up as much.

Since you have a few years of logging left you must have a pretty clear woodlot now so its really up to you and what you want.. I'd opt for R4s and chains on the front personally for winter use.

BTW congrats on getting the go ahead to get a NEW tractor!

Carl

 

[Gordon Gould]

I have ag tires and no experience with R4s. I spend a lot of time in the woods. All year - except when it is muddy enough to tear up my trails. My 4WD tractor, FEL, winch, and loaded 12.4 X 24 ag tires weighs almost exactly 5000 lbs. When there is ice or the snow gets hard packed enough so I don't cut in I have trouble w/o chains, even in 4WD. I would think you might want chains too. But our winter is longer than your so I don't really know.
What I wanted to remind you is that I have heard of a lot of situations where people could not run chains with R4s because of lack of clearance. You might want to check on that before you select your tire type and size. I don't know which tractors were a problem that way.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Greetings... I am about to pull the trigger on a new tractor. Was going to get the ags as mostly this tractor is used for logging however I have about maybe 5 years left of gettable wood after 34 years of logging the area. After that I will be buying (oh the horror) stems and using the tractor for snow and wood landing work only such as piling logs, bringing them to the splitter, moving splits up to the shed, etc,etc. I have looked at just about all the discussions of ags vs industrials but what most of these discussions are missing are details that make all the difference in the world. How else can anyone explain why some have no problem plowing snow for instance and others are slip siding all over the place with industrials. So it is best that when these questions arise, that specifics are stated to perhaps match those that are already working a certain tire in a certain way with certain tractor weights. Here are my "details". I'll be getting a Mahindra 3016 that if I go with industrials will be upsized to 43x16x20. These will be filled adding about 800 lbs to the tractor which will then weigh in at a bit over 4000# with fel. My question is this. Does anyone using ballasted industrials have problems logging in the woods or do these tires need to be chained to be effective? My terrain is relatively flat with minor grade deviations and is dense forest with ground obstructions. Mostly dry and mostly oaks. I skid when the ground gets hard and/or snow covered. I have skidded with as much as a foot of snow on the ground but mostly in 2"-6". As far as ground clearance, there is about an inch difference with the advantage going to the 11.2x24 ags.
Now just to get this straight. I am not looking to discuss the overall aspects of each type tire as that has been done. I am looking for specifics that might match how I plan to use these tires coupled with tractor weight so if anyone has a similar use situation as I've described, I'd like to hear how your combination is fairing. Thank you.

This is yet another variable. Your tree hitch is cantilevered out to a fair degree allowing a good amount of additional "ballast" for your tractor. Its helping to provide traction as a result. This is good as it is clearing up some scenarios for me. The industrials will certainly lend stability while in the woods and as I have turned my present tractor upside down twice, this can be a little relevant for me. Secondly, if I need more traction, I'll get chains but this way I'll also be able to drive on the grass more than I can now. I'll test the bare R4's in the snow this year and see how they do. I know they will not compare to the ags in this regard but we'll see exactly how much of a problem they are in snow. With a set up such as yours, I think they'll be less of a problem.

It looks like from your 2nd post that you are committing to R4s. I have missed what impetus you have to go there ... other than the lower height and thus lower CG -- but lower is less clearance. AGs offer more width ajdustment options than the R4s and should offset the CG issue entirely while giving the clearnce bonus. To me, in the woods, the attraction of taller and softer tires such as the AGs is their ability to maintain better ground contact as they roll over obstructions. This equates to pulling force in all condition, as well as better ride.
larry

 

[arrow]

No my tires are not loaded, and I could do anything that has been stated or shown with it the way it is expecially with all of that dry ground to work on. I was just trying to give you a comparison to the two different type of tires and the traction between then I have had both and I thought it may help. I didn't know this would turn into a my tractor comparison!

You misconstrue greatly sir. It is by no means what you have stated as a"my tractor comparison". I wanted to know in terms of weight comparison to get a better idea of this variable. I am always amazed of how discussions like this gets to something, which by your last sentence, seems as if I was trying to be divisive in some way. Thank you for your observations. I was only trying to get the particulars of what you were using weight wise so I could better understand the issue.

 

[arrow]

It looks like from your 2nd post that you are committing to R4s. I have missed what impetus you have to go there ... other than the lower height and thus lower CG -- but lower is less clearance. AGs offer more width ajdustment options than the R4s and should offset the CG issue entirely while giving the clearnce bonus. To me, in the woods, the attraction of taller and softer tires such as the AGs is their ability to maintain better ground contact as they roll over obstructions. This equates to pulling force in all condition, as well as better ride.
larry

My corrundrum Spydy is that I have a short time left in these woods for stem fetching. Everything you say is correct. I am trying to balance the limitations traction wise of r4's with their overall advantages after traction issues such as toughness as they will see a lot of front end loader work and the availability of bringing this thing on the grass occasionally. Whatever they are not traction wise I thought to make up with chains which was the main impetus for me leaning toward r4's. The other fact is that the r4's give more ballast capacity. A filled 43x16x20 weighs in about 400#'s per tire as opposed to 230#'s per tire for the 11.2x24 ags. However, Gordon Gould astutely brought up the fact of checking for chain clearance so I have to look into that.