Flail Mower Caroni Flail Roller Bearings

[sunspot]

I did not use enough grease. Now I have to try and dig out what's left of the circlip to pull the remainder of the bearing race. I was able to knock off the inner race from the support plate.

Worse yet, I have to rebuild both ends.

I really don't want to buy a new roller @ $500.

BTW, I grease the flail rotor every time I use the mower.

Circlip
Bearing
Washer

 

[Ledge End]

How old is the mower? What model mower is it?

If you greased it every time then why do you think you didn't use enough grease? :confused3:

Are both ends the same?

How did you know there was a problem? Did it get louder all of a sudden?

I'm interested in this mower type as it looked like it would do well on an area I have. More info would be appreciated.

 

[joemd11]

Ouch! I have a Caroni TM1900. I usually give each end of the roller a few shots of grease before each use. Maybe I should use more grease. What alerted you to this situation? Did the roller start making noise or did it lock up all together? Hope the repair isn't too costly. Do you have to go thru Caroni for parts?

 

[OhioCowboy]

Sunspot-
I had the same problem with my NH 918 last fall. I had to rebuild both ends completely.
I wasn't quite as good as you with greasing each time I used it, tried to grease every 8-10 hours. I was mowing about 10-12 hours a week. The roller lasted me 4 years after I bought it used. Can't complain because I was mowing all types of areas-lawn grass, pond ebanks, horse trails through the woods, pastures. I used to use a rear finish mower (Coroni then a King Kutter) I'll never go back to a finish mower.
Good luck on the rebuild. Make sure you use a hi temp grease.

 

[leonz]

Hello Dana,


Sorry to hear of your bad luck. I do not think all is lost yet my freind.
I would lay in a supply of dry ice if possible and then pack it inside the outer race
both bearings and the outer races should slip right out.

If not a sawzall with a short metal cutting blade will enable you remove the outer
race with little trouble.

When you have everything out and have new interior C clips you can put
the new bearings in the freezer for a day or two and they will fall into the bore
for you.

As a fail safe after the old bearings are out you can try to dry fit the new bearings, and if there
is slop a trip to a machine shop to fix the bore and add a speedy sleeve should solve the issue.


About the greasing issue, It may be helpfull for you to install a pair of grease cups from Mcmaster Carr
with hose extensions allowing you to see the grease in the cups and replenish the supply of grease quickly.

The grease cups should be covered in a plastic bag to prevent dust from entering through the top where
the vent holes are.

you can use loom clamps to secure the hose runs to prevent them from being snagged and broken.

 

[greg_g]

My 917H recently turned from mower into cultivator as well. Turned around to see what happened, and the roller was lying 15 feet behind the mower. Only one bearing failed, but somehow the circlip on the opposite end let go. Only way to get at it was to destroy the bearing, so I ended up doing both sides as well. Removal was far far more difficult than installation.

It looks to me as if the end in your photo still needs to have the outer race removed. I was able to get mine out with a hammer and cold chisel. The other side however, had to be burned out with a torch. I suppose this is stating the obvious - but since you grease the rotor every time you mow - I guess you'll now be greasing the roller every time as well.

//greg//

 

[sunspot]

How old is the mower? What model mower is it?
If you greased it every time then why do you think you didn't use enough grease? :confused3:
Are both ends the same?
How did you know there was a problem? Did it get louder all of a sudden?
I'm interested in this mower type as it looked like it would do well on an area I have. More info would be appreciated.

It's about 5 years old and is a TM1900 with the B rotor. I did not grease the roller enough. I did grease the rotor at every use. I disassembled the roller because of a squeaking noise.


So far, I only have one inner race removed. The outer races are difficult as I can't see where the roller ends and the race begins.

A good education is expensive.

 

[8404]

must be something in the air. Mine did the same thing and my mower is only a year old. I added grease every time i mowed and it still failed but i think the problem is because i mow in wet conditions in the spring time and moisture and grit is getting into my berrings especially on the offset side that i use to cut the lowest part of diches with.
Im going to be going a differant rout on the repair this time im going to remove the roller and replace it with two bush hog tail wheels. ive been thinking about this for some time. with the roller out of the way i it will cut going backwards too and the roller wont interfear with the discharge of tall grass as much either. anyway ive always ended up modifiying my mowers for better or for worst.

 

[8404]

View attachment 272263View attachment 272264must be something in the air. Mine did the same thing and my mower is only a year old. I added grease every time i mowed and it still failed but i think the problem is because i mow in wet conditions in the spring time and moisture and grit is getting into my berrings especially on the offset side that i use to cut the lowest part of diches with.
Im going to be going a differant rout on the repair this time im going to remove the roller and replace it with two bush hog tail wheels. ive been thinking about this for some time. with the roller out of the way it will cut going backwards too and the roller wont interfear with the discharge of tall grass as much either. anyway ive always ended up modifiying my mowers for better or for worst.

 

[joemd11]

sunspot,
I have the same mower and went out to check my roller. It spins freely, but it has about an inch of side-to-side play in it. Do you know if this is normal? I've only had the mower about a year and I don't recall seeing this before. Thanks.

 

[OhioCowboy]

View attachment 272263View attachment 272264must be something in the air. Mine did the same thing and my mower is only a year old. I added grease every time i mowed and it still failed but i think the problem is because i mow in wet conditions in the spring time and moisture and grit is getting into my berrings especially on the offset side that i use to cut the lowest part of diches with.
Im going to be going a differant rout on the repair this time im going to remove the roller and replace it with two bush hog tail wheels. ive been thinking about this for some time. with the roller out of the way it will cut going backwards too and the roller wont interfear with the discharge of tall grass as much either. anyway ive always ended up modifiying my mowers for better or for worst.

That's a very good idea! Maybe 3 wheels spaced across the back would help prevent scalping off the crowns and uneven spots in the lawn while mowing?

 

[greg_g]

The outer races are difficult as I can't see where the roller ends and the race begins..

If the rest of the bearing is gone, and only the outer race remains - it will shatter under a cold chisel.

I have the same mower and went out to check my roller. It spins freely, but it has about an inch of side-to-side play in it. Do you know if this is normal?

That would suggest either the circlips are no longer holding, or the stub over which the inner race fits has worn excessively. Either/both will cause the inner race to slide on the stub.

Maybe 3 wheels spaced across the back would help prevent scalping off the crowns and uneven spots in the lawn while mowing?

Or you could look at the one season of scalping as preparation for a more level lawn next year. I personally welcome the occasional scalping, as it's just that much more level the next time I mow.

//greg//

 

[sodamo]

If the rest of the bearing is gone, and only the outer race remains - it will shatter under a cold chisel.That would suggest either the circlips are no longer holding, or the stub over which the inner race fits has worn excessively. Either/both will cause the inner race to slide on the stub.Or you could look at the one season of scalping as preparation for a more level lawn next year. I personally welcome the occasional scalping, as it's just that much more level the next time I mow.

//greg//

I agree with the scalping except when it involves rocks LOL

David Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet

 

[sunspot]

sunspot,
I have the same mower and went out to check my roller. It spins freely, but it has about an inch of side-to-side play in it. Do you know if this is normal? I've only had the mower about a year and I don't recall seeing this before. Thanks.

It's not a hard job to drop the roller and check the bearings/side play. Only 2 bolts on one side. 19mm socket and wrench.

After I repair mine. I'm going to pump grease until it oozes out visibly.:thumbsup:

 

[joemd11]

Greg, thanks for the info - even if it's not what I wanted to hear. My mower is only a year old and probably only has 12 hours of use on it.

Sunspot, looks like I'll be taking my roller off to check it. If I understand you correctly, I only need to remove the two bolts on one side and the roller will slide out ? I'm not looking forward to this.

 

[N8ghz]

I don't know if this old trick will work for you on getting an outer race out of a blind hole or not.

If you are good enough & the thing is big enough to work inside of it, here is what can be a very handy thing to know. Run a hot & fast pass of weld full-circle around it where the balls or rollers ran. It will shrink and fall out. I have done that many times on outer races and even valve seats. For the smaller valve seats, I used a TIG with no filler rod, just a bead around the inside diameter.

Hope that helps.

 

[joemd11]

Well guys, I backed the mower into the shop today to inspect the roller bearings and they seem ok to me. Both bearings had grease and seem to turn freely and the circlips were fine. The axle stubs look good with no signs of wear. I cleaned everything as best I could and reassembled the roller. I then greased the snot out of the bearings. I then measured the side-to-side slop in the roller and it is 1/2 inch - not the 1 inch I mentioned earlier. I took pictures of the roller with it slid to one side. This is what each side looks like

 

[leonz]

Well guys, I backed the mower into the shop today to inspect the roller bearings and they seem ok to me. Both bearings had grease and seem to turn freely and the circlips were fine. The axle stubs look good with no signs of wear. I cleaned everything as best I could and reassembled the roller. I then greased the snot out of the bearings. I then measured the side-to-side slop in the roller and it is 1/2 inch - not the 1 inch I mentioned earlier. I took pictures of the roller with it slid to one side. This is what each side looks likeView attachment 272464 View attachment 272465

Hello Joemd,

You need to spend some more time looking at the right picture.

For whatever reason the right side bearing holder is off by about
10 degrees from vertical and that is not good from what I can see
I may be wrong but....

The roller stubs are supposed to stay between the bearing mounts
and be unexposed at least they are on my Mathews.

I cannot for the life of me understand why this steel has fatigued lke this-
unless the bolts are loose or stretching from the repeated raising and lowering
of the mower to do work.

It may be as simple as welding a piece of strap iron from bearing holder to
bearing holder to maintain the two bearings in a vertical axis.

 

[joemd11]

Ya, I am afraid that the roller mounts have somehow been spread outwards. I looked and didn't see anything obvious.

 

[leonz]

Good Morning Joemd11,

It appears thet they (Caroni) implemented the design with the bearing holders withn the interior
of the mower shroud due to the location of the extended anti skalp skids.

Most everyone else has the bearing mounts/cups bolted to the outside of the mowers side weldments.


I would be simple enough in the off season to take the bearing holders to a welding shop with the Caroni
drawings and your photos to illustrate the problem and allow them to see where the extra thickness of
steel is needed to strengthen the bearing mounts.


Making a pair of new weldments should not be difficult for them as long as you have the roller there for them to use
to correctly measure the distances between the interior wall distance of the side weldments.

I cannot imagine the Caroni engineering department making a mistake like this.

FWIW When I contacted the folks at caroni about getting pdf copies of the manuals for everyone
here they were very nice and forwarded them right to me so that I could e mail them to the folks that were
not provided manuals for thier units when they were shipped.

I will send an e-mail to the gentleman from whom I recieved the PDF copies to mention the problem and see if they have
a fix for this that the Agrisupply folks may not know about.

For right now I see no harm in waiting until mowing season is over to do any repairs to prevent future problems and allow it to be installed on the exterior of the mower side weldments.The work will require a bit of machining for the bearing and circlip/snap ring grooves as the bearings are a slip fit type to make it easier to replace them.

leon